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#1304145 - 11/12/09 03:39 PM Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how?
Morodiene Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 7496
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I have an adult voice student who has "cancelled" lessons the day of 2-3 times, only one being because she's "sick". She had missed her payment in October for lessons, and so I charged her the $15 late fee and told her she'd have to get caught up before I'd start teaching her again (she had shown up for a lesson after I sent her a letter telling her lessons were discontinued until she got caught up). She claims to not have gotten the letter.

She made arrangements to return to lessons Nov. 4 (at a new day and time because the one she had wasn't working for her)and pay everything up to date. She did not show on the 4ht, and I assumed she didn't have the money and that was the reason. She showed up at her old time on Thursday with the money, and I happened to have the time available, so I taught her. She verified that she wanted the Wednesday lesson time and had just forgotten we set that up. So then I'm ready yesterday, and she doesn't show *again*.

She has now paid for Nov. lessons, which only go until next week. I have a feeling she will show up today at her old lesson time which I have filled with another student.

I have turned away a few new students because my studio is full, and so I have decided that this is not the best time for her to be taking lessons. Obviously there's a lot going on in her life and her focus is elsewhere, and I shouldn't be turning away clients who may have better attendance and respect for my time. I am not in this business to make money, I want to teach, and if a student isn't there even though I get paid for my time, it is not worth it for me.

So if/when she shows up today, I will tell her she missed her lesson which I will not make up, but do I tell her that next week is her last lesson (since I am not teaching the week of Thanksgiving except for make-ups), or do I wait until next week to tell her?

If I tell her today that next week is it, I will most likely be saying this in earshot of my other student, but she doesn't read her mail or have a phone!
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#1304181 - 11/12/09 04:39 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Morodiene]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5216
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
So if/when she shows up today, I will tell her she missed her lesson which I will not make up, but do I tell her that next week is her last lesson (since I am not teaching the week of Thanksgiving except for make-ups), or do I wait until next week to tell her?

If I tell her today that next week is it, I will most likely be saying this in earshot of my other student, but she doesn't read her mail or have a phone!
My gut feeling is to tell her today - she's the one who doesn't give notice, and you want to keep the high moral ground yourself smile. But it is a little difficult to do this in front of your other student. Perhaps you could put it in writing and give it to her ("next Thursday at 3pm will be our last lesson etc etc").
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#1304189 - 11/12/09 04:56 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Morodiene]
dmc092657 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 277
I'm not a teacher but I don't think I need to be to share an opinion.

The issues you are describing go straight to common courtesy. Its no different than failing to keep multiple doctor's/dental appointments. Eventually they will drop you as a patient (my wife works for a dentist). Regardless of what is going on in this woman's life, there is no excuse for not showing up as she has done consistently without any advance notice. You haven't indicated how you think she would react to being dropped, but I wouldn't be comfortable telling her that she's done when other people are within earshot. I would wait until she shows for her last lesson (if she shows) and tell her as soon as she arrives. I'm assuming the student that follows her wouldn't be there yet so you'll have some privacy. It also allows time for discussion without infringing on the next student's lesson in case she tries to argue the point.


Edited by dmc092657 (11/12/09 04:59 PM)

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#1304197 - 11/12/09 05:12 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Morodiene]
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1253
Loc: northern California
Can you phone her before she shows up today? I would really try to take care of this over the phone.

wait a minute....I just re-read your OP again and saw that "she doesn't have a phone". No phone? Any way to contact her away from earshot of other students in your studio?
Send a letter to her home?


Edited by Barb860 (11/12/09 05:14 PM)
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#1304203 - 11/12/09 05:21 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Barb860]
currawong Offline
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Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5216
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Barb860
wait a minute....I just re-read your OP again and saw that "she doesn't have a phone". No phone? Any way to contact her away from earshot of other students in your studio?
Send a letter to her home?
Tricky, isn't it smile. And Morodiene said "she doesn't read her mail", which is why I suggested handing her a letter if she turns up today. The alternative is talking to her during her lesson time next week. That's if she turns up smile
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#1304205 - 11/12/09 05:23 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: currawong]
Barb860 Offline
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Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1253
Loc: northern California
Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: Barb860
wait a minute....I just re-read your OP again and saw that "she doesn't have a phone". No phone? Any way to contact her away from earshot of other students in your studio?
Send a letter to her home?
Tricky, isn't it smile. And Morodiene said "she doesn't read her mail", which is why I suggested handing her a letter if she turns up today. The alternative is talking to her during her lesson time next week. That's if she turns up smile


O.K. I like the idea of handing the student a letter. I would avoid talking to her in person at the studio. And yes, I would end things today.
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#1304321 - 11/12/09 08:54 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Barb860]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 16995
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Or, maybe end her lesson a few minutes early, explaining that you need to talk with her privately for a short while, and then escort her to the door and outside (and away from earshot of any other students).
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#1304428 - 11/12/09 11:22 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Monica K.]
Happy Birthday John v.d.Brook Online   content
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Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
+1
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#1304438 - 11/12/09 11:35 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Morodiene Offline
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Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 7496
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Well, she didn't show for her old lesson time either, so that made that a bit easier to take! Great ideas everyone. I still don't know when and if she will ever show up again, but now I have some ideas on how to handle it if she comes when I'm teaching another student. Why does this have to be so difficult? frown
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#1304793 - 11/13/09 01:08 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Morodiene]
Gyro Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 4521
Why not accept a new student in her
place, and then tell her that you'll
teach her strictly on a "walk-in" basis,
that is, if and when she shows up,
if you can take her, you'll teach
her, otherwise not, and she'll
have to pay for each lesson on
the spot. She'd probably prefer
this type of arrangement anyway.

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#1304814 - 11/13/09 01:42 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Gyro]
Happy Birthday John v.d.Brook Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 6119
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Gyro, every now and then, you come up with a barn burner of an idea. Bravo. This would solve her problem and allow her to charge top dollar as well!
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
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#1304996 - 11/13/09 05:50 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Gyro]
Tweedpipe Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/08
Posts: 364
Originally Posted By: Gyro
Why not accept a new student in her
place, and then tell her that you'll
teach her strictly on a "walk-in" basis,
that is, if and when she shows up,
if you can take her, you'll teach
her, otherwise not, and she'll
have to pay for each lesson on
the spot. She'd probably prefer
this type of arrangement anyway.


Credit where credit's due. Gyro, this is a good, well thought-out reply.
Are you a little under the weather? wink
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#1305056 - 11/13/09 07:06 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Tweedpipe]
Morodiene Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 7496
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I agree, it's a great compromise. However, I really wouldn't like to have to stay after to teach someone I wasn't planning on teaching simply because then that cuts into my family time. Even charging her more for paying by the lesson wouldn't be worth it for me.

I guess she's made it easier on me since she didn't show up at all this week, and I do wonder when and if she will come next week, but I'll have to wait to find out.
_________________________
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#1305061 - 11/13/09 07:17 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Morodiene]
ll Offline
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Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 1101
Off that same idea, couldn't she schedule weekly, before-hand, in spots you already have open that will fit with her schedule that week?

Maybe 'flex-time' would work here? That way, you could fill in an empty spot during the week, and continue her, if you'd like.
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Only lowercase. So not even that.
I teach piano and violin.
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#1305103 - 11/13/09 08:08 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: ll]
Morodiene Offline
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Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 7496
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Well, without disclosing too much personal information, she does not work, so it's not her schedule that's the issue.
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WMTA member
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#1305185 - 11/13/09 11:05 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Morodiene]
Betty Patnude Offline
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Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4878
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
I understand where you are coming from as a music teacher, Morodiene.

But, I think I'll offer prayer in behalf of the woman who is in this flux. What came to my mind is that her life is in conflict and perhaps she is even homeless or living close to poverty.

You haven't spoken about any talent or how long you've had her as a student, but I've known of several women who were going through hard times during their lives who loved music and either sang or played piano or wrote songs and desperately wanted lessons and support although they did not have transportation, funding for study, no housing, no phone, no mail. Women who were hoping that they would get to a point where their talent (recording) would be discovered. Fantasy more than reality, but still their biggest passion was getting a break. In the meantime, their lives were "messy" and "limited" by their circumstances.

There are other possibilities for an explanation or things in her life that contribute to these unacceptable circumstances.

The only thing I was able to do for these people was to wish them well and to keep them on my prayer list for a while. I offer the idea that some prayerful types of energy sent in behalf of this woman might come to fruition whatever her needs might be, but that is between her and her higher power if she recognizes religion or metaphysics.

A friend of mine, who died a few years ago, was a voice teacher who always let her students go with her benediction. She brought the endings to a very personal close with a handwritten note and photo(s)of their better times together. but she encouraged them in such a way that they thought she was doing them a favor. Actually she was as their were no regrets spoken, no blame, no slammed doors. She could have written a book on dealing with difficult people as she had this really incredible knack of making everyone seem like a winner even when parting.

This problem that you are having reminded me of all of this. It may not be relevant to many readers, but maybe just one person will understand and can use this for future thought.

Betty Patnude
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Piano Teacher - Member MTNA/WSMTA

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#1308074 - 11/18/09 09:20 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Betty Patnude]
Morodiene Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 7496
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Thanks, Betty, I appreciated your post. I thought I responded but perhaps I forgot to hit "submit". I've been very distracted lately!

Just an update, this student didn't show up at all last week, and so today, she came at her new lesson time, on time. She explained that she had a headache and didn't have a phone to cancel the lesson. I let her know that I couldn't do a make-up per my policy, and she understood.

I talked with her about the fact that she's missed 5 lessons since September and that it seems like there's a lot going on in her life. I said I understood that "life happens" and suggested that she take a break for a while until things calm down, then she can start up again when she's ready. I did let her know that I couldn't guarantee this lesson time would be available, but I'm sure we could figure something out when the time comes.

Her response was precious: "You'd do that for me?" smile

We finished up her lesson and I gave her some pointers to work on while she's on her own. I wished her the best, and I hope to see her again someday.
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private piano/voice teacher - full time
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#1308093 - 11/18/09 09:49 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Morodiene]
R0B Offline
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Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1159
Loc: on your monitor
What a great resolution smile

A perfect demonstration of how good communication, and a little understanding, can make life so much easier.
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Rob

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#1308133 - 11/18/09 10:34 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: R0B]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4878
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
This sounds like a bit of relief for both of you until a better day comes for her and she can pursue her dream without feeling she has to make excuses and let herself and other people down.

I'm glad she understood it to be a blessing at this time and I'm glad my post had some significance to it for you.

My friend was a very gracious and positive person and she would never let anger or unfinished intrude and she said gratitude and did meditation every day in behalf of other people.

Betty
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Piano Teacher - Member MTNA/WSMTA

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#1308378 - 11/19/09 10:05 AM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Betty Patnude]
Morodiene Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 7496
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I feel pretty bad, though, because I had loaned her a CD and when she didn't show up last week I assumed that she was going to keep the CD in exchange for the lessons she paid for and did not attend. I've had students do that to me so many times before, and my imagination assumed the worst of her. There comes a point where you emotionally write someone off, you know? And she came yesterday with the CD in hand. The CD isn't worth really that much, especially when compared to a relationship between teacher and student. And yet I was a little peeved when I figured she wouldn't return it and I'd never see her again.

Maybe our resident psychologist Monica can shed some light on this. Do we teachers get overly invested in our students, thus exposing ourselves to emotional harm when a student doesn't do as we would like (i.e., practicing, showing up for lessons, adhering to policy)?
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private piano/voice teacher - full time
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#1308386 - 11/19/09 10:15 AM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Morodiene]
rocket88 Online   happy
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 2529
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Do we teachers get overly invested in our students, thus exposing ourselves to emotional harm when a student doesn't do as we would like (i.e., practicing, showing up for lessons, adhering to policy)?


I think that is unavoidable, unless one conducts the lessons in an extremely distant and cold manner. Thus, potentially getting hurt when students don't act like we want them to is part of the program, and learning how to buffer that is also part of the program.

Which is why this forum is so wonderful...peer shoulders to lean on, because only peers understand.
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

"They may call me a rube and a hick, but I would rather be the man who bought the Brooklyn Bridge than the man who sold it." Will Rogers

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#1308421 - 11/19/09 11:12 AM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Morodiene]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 16995
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Do we teachers get overly invested in our students, thus exposing ourselves to emotional harm when a student doesn't do as we would like (i.e., practicing, showing up for lessons, adhering to policy)?


Absolutely. A major theory in social psychology is social identity theory, which argues that our identity is affected not only by our personality and the intra-individual traits, values, etc.--that is, the stuff we typically think of when we use the term "identity"--but also by the characteristics, successes, and failures of the important groups we belong to, of which your studio would be one example.

Because we are academics, we like to use silly acronyms. So there is BIRGing, which stands for Basking in Reflected Glory. This is the tendency for our own self-esteem to be enhanced when those we identify with do well... which is why y'all feel so good when your students perform well at a recital. smile When the affiliated other/group doesn't do well, we try to CORF (Cutting Off Reflected Failure) when possible, but that works only if we can distance ourselves from the other person/group. If the other person is too closely tied to your identity, e.g., one's child, or very likely, one's piano student, then failure on the part of the other cannot be deflected or displaced and will adversely affect your own self-esteem, unless you can somehow externalize the failure (e.g., my student didn't play well because the piano had a key that kept skipping, etc.).

[With effort, Monica stops her social identity theory lecture. wink ]
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1308429 - 11/19/09 11:22 AM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Monica K.]
Morodiene Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 7496
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Monica K.
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Do we teachers get overly invested in our students, thus exposing ourselves to emotional harm when a student doesn't do as we would like (i.e., practicing, showing up for lessons, adhering to policy)?


Absolutely. A major theory in social psychology is social identity theory, which argues that our identity is affected not only by our personality and the intra-individual traits, values, etc.--that is, the stuff we typically think of when we use the term "identity"--but also by the characteristics, successes, and failures of the important groups we belong to, of which your studio would be one example.

Because we are academics, we like to use silly acronyms. So there is BIRGing, which stands for Basking in Reflected Glory. This is the tendency for our own self-esteem to be enhanced when those we identify with do well... which is why y'all feel so good when your students perform well at a recital. smile When the affiliated other/group doesn't do well, we try to CORF (Cutting Off Reflected Failure) when possible, but that works only if we can distance ourselves from the other person/group. If the other person is too closely tied to your identity, e.g., one's child, or very likely, one's piano student, then failure on the part of the other cannot be deflected or displaced and will adversely affect your own self-esteem, unless you can somehow externalize the failure (e.g., my student didn't play well because the piano had a key that kept skipping, etc.).

[With effort, Monica stops her social identity theory lecture. wink ]


This is very helpful, Monica...and right on cue! laugh

So what is the healthy response to such things as disappointment in students (and thus disappointment in oneself as a teacher)? You mention CORF, but couldn't that also be making up excuses and not really addressing the problem of BIRG?
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private piano/voice teacher - full time
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#1308444 - 11/19/09 11:36 AM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Morodiene]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 16995
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
That's an interesting question, Morodiene. These phenomena are normal, in the sense that most people engage in BIRGing and the like. And the disappointment in a student's failure is an inevitable side effect of your social identity as a teacher. You can prevent it, I suppose, by distancing yourself from the student and convincing yourself that their performance is not strongly related to you or your efforts. But then you wouldn't be in a position to feel (personally) good about their successes...and you'd be on your way to being a burned out, apathetic instructor, which I know you're not. smile

I see the disappointment as an inevitable consequence of your caring about your students, and that's a good thing. thumb So the best advice I could give would be simply to try to avoid a depressogenic pattern of attributions for students' (or your own) failures: when something bad happens, it's okay to feel disappointed or unhappy, but don't make global, stable, internal attributions... i.e., if a student messes up, don't think that the student messes up at everything they do, that they will always and forever mess up, and that it's due to some personality or ability flaw in them as a person.

Long story short: It's natural and okay to feel disappointed, but try to recognize it for the limited instance that it is, and don't let it affect your feelings about other students, your job, or even that student in other contexts.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1308460 - 11/19/09 11:47 AM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Monica K.]
Morodiene Offline
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Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 7496
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Thanks, Monica for the free advice! I was beginning to think I'd need to schedule some sessions - it's good to know this is normal, and considering the alternative of apathy, I'll take BIRGing any day.
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#1308500 - 11/19/09 12:55 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Morodiene]
Betty Patnude Offline
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Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4878
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
Morodiene,

I've suffered for years when a student didn't call to cancel a lesson and the student didn't ever arrive at lesson either.

My mind goes to the worst possible situation: emergency, injury, catastrophe and I worry about their well being and safety until I hear what has happened that made them not able to come to piano lesson.

My youngest daugher said to me so often "Mom, it hasn't happened until it happens!"

Now I don't go "there" with any suppositions about them. I tell myself that it's their responsibility to contact me and I will wait until that call or e-mail comes in or the next lesson happens. I refuse to track down absences as in my "book" they are a forfeited lesson.

This was a hard one to learn.

I think we invent these scenarios to serve a purpose and it's strange that they are always (mine anyway) expressed as a negative or a disappointment in someone's behavior toward us. I think we want closure to things and if we can't get it from the principle's involved, we come up with the scenarios. The scenarios are substitutes for closure.

I try to catch myself when I start to go there: "You're doing it again!"

Betty
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#1308504 - 11/19/09 01:04 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Betty Patnude]
Morodiene Offline
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Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 7496
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
How true, Betty. I also do not call students when they don't show. It's on them to let me know what happened.

Last night my last student didn't show. I waited 15 minutes and then started packing up to go home and received a call from him. He stated that he had a lot of homework and so he wouldn't be coming tonight. I told him that I would appreciate a call *before* his lesson started, and that I require 24 hours' notice to reschedule, therefore we would not do a make-up. He's a relatively new student, so I needed to really drive this home.

I reminded him his next lesson would be after Thanksgiving, at our new time which we had previously discussed. He then asked me to call and remind him of his lesson by leaving a voice mail! He was copping a bit of an attitude, so I gave it right back at him. I told him I do not call students to remind them of their lesson time. I suggested he write it down on his calendar or have his mother remind him! He's 17!


Edited by Morodiene (11/19/09 01:05 PM)
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#1308513 - 11/19/09 01:15 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Morodiene]
Happy Birthday John v.d.Brook Online   content
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Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 6119
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
That's fabulous, M! Luv it!
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Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1308517 - 11/19/09 01:25 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Morodiene]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4878
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
Oh, whoa!

I mean, Oh woe! (He, He, He!)

As I'm reading your post, there goes my mind saying "Warning: How is teaching this person going to work out?" I bet you went there in your thoughts too as you straighted his expectations out!

I'm almost sure you used a calm, louder, slower speech to convey this message. Like, "I'm going to say this one time only. Are you listening?"

My inner world often goes on thinking while I hear my voice making the points such as you were making to him.

I think you'll be putting some "responsibility" words into his lesson assignments and vocabulary. Wouldn't it be great if he shaped this area of his life up though taking piano lessons? So much can be learned about your self and your habits while you're on the piano bench.

Good luck to him and to you!

Betty
_________________________
Piano Teacher - Member MTNA/WSMTA

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#1308596 - 11/19/09 03:32 PM Re: Ok, I know I need to discontinue this student, but how? [Re: Betty Patnude]
Jeff Clef Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 3457
Loc: San Jose, CA
"A friend of mine... was a voice teacher who always let her students go with her benediction. She... encouraged them in such a way that they thought she was doing them a favor. Actually she was... she had this really incredible knack of making everyone seem like a winner even when parting."

A gift--- not all that common. It's uplifting to even hear about such a person.
_________________________
Clef


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