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#1305890 - 11/15/09 07:28 AM Kawai CP-series, "piano-synths" & Yamaha whining...
Huygens Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 217
Loc: Sweden
I've been looking for something like the (I have not technical name) "piano-synth" DPs, like the Casio CDP-200R and DGX-630, but with better keys, better sound and a 4-channel sampling + more instruments.

On the Yamaha side there is the CVP-series, but I get my doubt when I notice that Yamaha only have the best features on the very expensive range. Yamaha has for example removed String Resonance from CVP-505, which is present in CVP-405.

CVP-505 crap compared to CVP-405


Well, you might state that the 505 is not that bad compared to the older 405. The 505 has more instruments. Yes, that right, but String Resonance is so important for me that I don't want to be without it. And... The 505 should be a more modern DP, _NOT_ a downgraded DP in the CVP-series.

---

Now I turned to Kawai, because my gut feeling is that Kawai is the only one that has graded keys that are better than Yamaha + that the Kawai piano-synths have String Resonance.

What do I see?

Total confusion on the Kawai home page. Very limited web pages with few resellers of Kawai. I live in Sweden and would expect some shop nearby to have Kawai, but no.

The problem on Kawai Europe web page is that when staying in English mode, Kawai states that the piano-synths are called:

CP-136
CP-116

I click the flag "switch-language-to-german".

Then I take a look at the German Kawai Forum; there is a link to it from the Kawai official German web page. The Forum seems to lack something. Questions are asked (in German) about the CP-136, but very few are answered or seems to be answered late.

I despair and go to the U.S. Kawai web page. Now nothing seems to be sane anymore. The U.S. Kawai page stats that the CP-series consists of:

CP207
CP187
CP177
CP137
CP117
CP67

So, my question is, what CP-series DPs are in sale, which are outdate and why is there such a difference between the U.S. and Europe Kawai web page?

What Kawai CP-series DP does best correspond (outperform?) the CVP-405 with String Resonance (sympathetic resonance?)?

I actually consider taking a trip to UK, German or possible Denmark if I can find the right Kawai piano-synth.


Edited by Huygens (11/15/09 07:28 AM)
_________________________
P-85 cheap plastic imitation; not because of sound, but weight.

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#1305905 - 11/15/09 08:10 AM Re: Kawai CP-series, "piano-synths" & Yamaha whining... [Re: Huygens]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9196
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello,

The KAWAI CP range of instruments are referred to as 'ensemble digital pianos'. These models usually offer a greater selection of instrument sounds that the standard console-type digital pianos, while also offering accompaniment styles and more advanced recording functionality.

The CP116 and CP136 in Europe share the specifications of the CP117 and CP137 available in North America and Australasia. This kind of product is deemed to be more popular in these markets, thus there is a wider range of models available. Furthermore, the American and European instruments utilise different style accompaniments in order to best cater for the tastes of consumers in the respective markets.

Quote:
why is there such a difference between the U.S. and Europe Kawai web page?


KAWAI Europe and KAWAI America operate their own websites, without influence from KAWAI Japan. At some point in the future I hope that the respective websites for all KAWAI markets will share a single common layout and design style.

Finally, the CP136 features both string and damper resonance, while the CP116 features damper resonance only.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1305959 - 11/15/09 10:47 AM Re: Kawai CP-series, "piano-synths" & Yamaha whining... [Re: Kawai James]
Huygens Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 217
Loc: Sweden
Originally Posted By: KAWAI James
The CP116 and CP136 in Europe share the specifications of the CP117 and CP137 available in North America and Australasia. [cut]

Furthermore, the American and European instruments utilise different style accompaniments in order to best cater for the tastes of consumers in the respective markets.


James, do you know exactly what style accompaniments are different?
_________________________
P-85 cheap plastic imitation; not because of sound, but weight.

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#1306090 - 11/15/09 01:54 PM Re: Kawai CP-series, "piano-synths" & Yamaha whining... [Re: Huygens]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: Huygens
I've been looking for something like the (I have not technical name) "piano-synth" DPs, like the Casio CDP-200R and DGX-630, but with better keys, better sound and a 4-channel sampling + more instruments.

On the Yamaha side there is the CVP-series, but I get my doubt when I notice that Yamaha only have the best features on the very expensive range.


If you want the best sound and keys and all the voices and accompaniments in the Yamaha line then you are looking at the Yamaha Motif XS8. I think it is the only instruments where Yamaha puts all of the top line technologies in one place. But you are right, not cheap. About $3600

The other way to get this in the Yamaha line is to buy a much less expensive keyboard and then buy the Motif XS sound module in rack mount form for $1,300. This gives you the best Yamaha sounds on whichever keys you happen to already have. The XS module gives you 1024 voices and 128 note polyphony. If that is not enough you can stack multiple XS units.

No, I'm not pushing Yamaha, I'd use a computer. I have multiple thousands of voices on my computer and unlimited recordings and polyphony.

But if you'd like a CLP but with a billion voices and other features and don't like computers just connect the CLP to a XS module and you get top of the line sound of the lower priced CLP.


Edited by ChrisA (11/15/09 02:11 PM)

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#1306103 - 11/15/09 02:13 PM Re: Kawai CP-series, "piano-synths" & Yamaha whining... [Re: ChrisA]
Huygens Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 217
Loc: Sweden
Originally Posted By: ChrisA
[quote=Huygens]But if you'd like a CLP but with a billion voices and other features and don't likr computers just connect the CLP to a XS module and you get top of the line sound of the lower priced CLP.


Thank for the advice. I didn't know that expansion cards could give extra instruments. In fact I knew very little about expansion cards. smile

Now this thing about String Resonance..

Problem is that only CLP-380 has String Resonance of the CLPs? I guess that String Resonance is not something I can get from an expansion card?

And yes, I probably want a CLP (or similar) + String Resonance, but with lots of voices, including the crashing helicopter sound.

That's why I became so unhappy when I saw Yamaha had down graded the CVP-505. And I can't understand Kawai has so poor sales channels in Europe.

So...

Now I've been browsing about on the Roland home page. The "other/RD-700GX" thread made me aware that Roland might be an alternative.

I guess I have to go to a shop and try out the Roland keyboards. (To me Roland was a pure synth trade mark, but I probably have to do some re-thinking)
_________________________
P-85 cheap plastic imitation; not because of sound, but weight.

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#1306118 - 11/15/09 02:27 PM Re: Kawai CP-series, "piano-synths" & Yamaha whining... [Re: Huygens]
oddsignals Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/02/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Norway
I would also have a look at the Kurzweil stage pianos - the SP2X and SP3X. Or, if you need integrated speakers, the SP2XS. I know Jam sells them in Sweden, but they might also have other agents.

Another option from a (Swedish smile ) manufacturer with a lot of synth experience is the Clavia Nord Stage EX 88. It's quite a bit more expensive than the SP2X though, more in line with the Roland RD-700GX. I've seen a lot of people rave about it though, so it might well be worth the money.
_________________________
J.S. Bach: Two-part invention No. 4 in D minor, BWV 775
Muzio Clementi: Sonatina in C Major, Op. 36 No. 1
Ole Olsen: Fanitull

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#1306163 - 11/15/09 04:33 PM Re: Kawai CP-series, "piano-synths" & Yamaha whining... [Re: oddsignals]
reza Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 77
Loc: Tehran, Iran
You may also need to try Roland HP-203 and HP-207

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#1306315 - 11/15/09 09:52 PM Re: Kawai CP-series, "piano-synths" & Yamaha whining... [Re: Huygens]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9196
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Huygens
James, do you know exactly what style accompaniments are different?


After consulting with the R&D division, it would appear that it not simply the style accompaniments that are different. There are also differences to some instrument sounds, internal songs (demo songs, Piano Music pieces, Concert Magic songs), as well as the accompaniment styles / Song Stylist.

However, to my knowledge, the feature specifications (damper/string resonance etc. between the European and American/Australian models are the same.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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