Well I just had my first try on the C#m Posth. Nocturne and as I thought, the right hand is not impossible for me.

What I noticed is that - as my hands are relatively small(I can play an octave but beyond that it starts to be too much stretching) - the left hand arpeggios were quite challenging for me.

I'm sure it will take not more than few months to handle the notes, I'm kinda motivated on this one. And it's less than I thought. I'm not even going to discuss about the perfect interpretation part. I'll let you guys know about my problems / development on the subject.

Maybe one day you'll see me playin it on youtube, cheers!

PS. loveschopintoomuch: I am a he actually.

Excellent. It's a lovely piece and I'm sure you'll do it justice. Good luck and make sure you keep us informed on your progress. Most importantly, have fun!

Hi Curious123: Sorry about the gender mistake. I also have a lot of trouble with the left hand arpeggios. I just can't seem to remember them, and I don't know why. But it is such a wonderful piece and so worth the effort to learn.

Please let us know how you are doing. And remember Chopin's famous quote: Practice is the best teacher and time the best critic. (or words to that effect).

Kathleen

Kathleen, I think you just had a Freudian slip. Patience is the best teacher.

I’ve been taking some private mazurka lessons-- dancing not playing, that is. I’ve wanted to find someone to teach me some form of this dance for years, and have finally connected with the local master teacher of folk dance, Gary Diggs. When I first spoke to him about it, he tried to dissuade me, warning me that it’s really, really hard and I would be frustrated and have to spend an awful lot of hours. Guess what-- it IS really hard. Very different from any kind of dance I’ve done before. I'll need to remember that "patience is the best teacher." Oh, well, it will help stave off Alzheimer’s. And it’s not as breathtakingly complicated as some of the Hungarian footwork Gary demonstrated for me yesterday.

It seems like our Fryc must have had both more leg muscle and more lung power in his youth than we might think; staying out late dancing this very bouncy, high-velocity sort of dance would have required a good deal of stamina.

Gary wrote something about his experience with practicing violin that seems pertinent here: “The thing is, you have no idea of how hard I had to work, how many hours of sweat, frustration, and pushing against immovable objects I had to endure to only suck this badly.”

For Mark and others who have joined us recently, just a little more about Delfina Potocka. A portrait of her that resembles the Stevenson angel much more than the one Mark mentioned is a painting by Delaroche that depicts her, so very inappropriately, as the Madonna. It’s a bit odd. The lady is looking up into the heavens with an expression that appears bored and exasperated rather than reverent-- like “why me, Lord?” She seems to have no connection to the beautiful child sleeping in her lap.

You can see it here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Delfina_Potocka_jako_Madonna.JPG

As is the case with portraits of her friend Fryderyk, in the pictures we see her hair often appears dark rather than the correct blonde color, and as with him, various portraits look so different from each other that it’s hard to visualize the real person. We do know for sure that she was considered attractive, that she had a shocking number of lovers, and more importantly, that she was a fine soprano and played the piano well.

We also know for certain that Mme Potocka was not only Zygmunt Krasiński’s friend and muse, but the love of his life, even after his father pressured him into marrying someone else. Her relationship with Chopin is less clear; at the least, they were dear friends from 1832 until the end of his life, but the official historical record tells us little more. My understanding is that they were lovers for some period of time between 1832 and 1835. Many people who knew them assumed that they were, and Frycek, if I remember correctly, thinks it’s true on the basis of “where there’s smoke there’s fire.” Which I think is reasonable. But there’s no way to prove it on the basis of written history, and in fact there is some evidence against it. (Do NOT pay any attention to the fraudulent letters that were “discovered” in the 1940s.)

Elene

I learnt the first half of that a while back. I also have tiny hands (physically no wider than an octave, not to mention being able to play an octave cleanly) and found that with a little pedal, it's quite manageable. I found it much more difficult trying to fit upwards of 35 notes into the 4 note arpeggio. That stinks.

I'll still be practicing that run 10 minutes a day for the forseeable future. I mastered the rest awhile back.

Oh, you got me on that quote, Frycek. Have I been misquoting him all this time? The correct quote, according to what I found on the Internet is:

"Time is the best censor, and patience a most excellent teacher."

What a prophet he was, especially with the "patience" part. I confess to getting quite frustrated when playing some of his music. I am going to print out this quote and paste in on the inside of my eyelids.

And I agree with Frycek. That 35 note run is a bear. I still practice it (with patience) several times a day and still have to keep my fingers crossed each time I play it.

I'm off to see Beethoven today.

Kathleen

Hi Kathleen, I hope you enjoy Hershey's performance very much (just can't imagine him as Beethoven though) and look forward to you telling us all about it when you get the chance.

Actually, Hershey's not playing Beethoven, he's playing a friend of his looking back.

Ah, that explains it... thanks Frycek.

But what of the musical content? At the piano, is he still portraying a friend ... who just happens to be extraordinarily skilled at reproducing Beethoven's music?

Steven

Kathleen will explain all.

I just did a double take while listening to the radio when I realised that a song had exactly the same melody as Chopin's 10/3 (might have been in a different key). The song was called "No other love" by Jo Stafford. Has anyone ever heard this and are there any other songs that have their foundations in Chopin's music? I have never heard of any of these before.

There have been a number of them! The best known are probably "No Other Love," "'Til the End of Time" (Polonaise Op. 53) and "I'm Always Chasing Rainbows" (Fantaisie-Impromptu).

I think they're kind of awful, but Chopin is hardly unique among composers in having his music used for this purpose; Bach, Clementi, Rachmaninoff and Tchaikovsky have been similarly exploited, and surely there are others, too.

Steven

Yeah, several of Chopin's very singable melodies have been stolen for popular songs. That particular one, from 1950, was actually written/plagiarised by Joe Stafford's husband.

IMO the most unpleasant theft of this kind is Gainsbourg's 'Lemon Incest'.

Pop musicians steal a lot from Chopin, Bach, Beethoven, and many other classical composers. Many non-classical music listeners who say classical music is boring have no idea when they listen to some classical melodies.

I never knew there were so many! I'll listen out for some more.


Thats an excellent point. Next time someone says it's all boring...

I think those who find classical music boring would still be bored by recognizable melodies (no matter how familiar) in their original classical contexts.

When I was growing up, "easy listening" music was popular among an older generation of people who had turned their backs on popular music—people who loathed rock 'n' roll or whatever it was that they thought "kids" were listening to. Even though the preponderance of the melodies were written by musicians associated with pop and rock (like, for example, Lennon and McCartney or the Brill Building songwriters), they were only palatable only when eviscerated and reconstructed into the kinds of non-threatening arrangements used for elevator music (i.e., no percussion but lots of violins).

Steven

I dunno about Chopin, but a good example of succesful stealing of classical melody for pop version is Celine Dions All By Myself. I mean the song is great, right?

And it's straight taken from Rachmaninoffs Piano Concerto 2, 2nd movement.

Blame Eric Carmen for that. It was a huge hit in 1975:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_By_Myself

Steven

I am always surprised when sometimes very intelligent people with a very high educational level are not interested at all in classical music and find it boring. Of course there is no real connections between these features, but somehow I would expect them to have "finer ears" so to speak...

Somehow a lot of our diacritical marks and punctuation have gone buggy since yesterday. My last post looked fine when I posted it, and now it's a mess. I wonder what happened? This was going on when the format was first changed, then got fixed somehow.

"Full Moon and Empty Arms" was also lifted from the Rach 2, if I remember correctly.

Elene

""Full Moon and Empty Arms" was also lifted from the Rach 2, if I remember correctly."

Lifted, stolen; six of one... a scant two years after the composer's decease. From the genius lyricist who brought us 'A' You're Adorable and Speedy Gonzales.

This Time Magazine article from 1947 pretty well nails it:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,798001,00.html

Wow, I'm amazed that a Time article from 1947 is available. Thanks. I didn't know that one person was responsible for so many "crimes"! The article did mention, though, that the actual A flat Polonaise was brought to the attention of the masses and became a big seller after "Till the End of Time" came out, so I guess I should be a little less upset by that travesty.

By the way, Schumann's song "Widmung" came out as "Widinung" in the article. It really was a song to begin with, and really does mean "Dedication," so that adaptation sounds less horrifying.

But then, Liszt did a (quite nice) piano version of that song, in addition to his Chopin transcriptions-- pop adaptations have been going on for quite some time.

Hey, not only are our diacritical marks screwed up, links aren't coming out as links either.

Elene

Hello all:

My sister and I had the memorable experience of attending Hershey Felder's one-man play: Beethoven: As I knew him yesterday. For our new devotees, Hershey is a remarkably talented young man who has created a trilogy, with three famous composers: Gershwin, Chopin and Beethoven. He calls it the "Composer Sonata." He has performed all over the world, presenting Gershwin Alone, M. Chopin and ending with Beethoven: As I Knew Him . I've seen all three, and please believe me when I say, you will be left breathless at the genius and sensitivity of Mr. Felder. Run, don't walk to get tickets to any of his performances when you see them advertised in your area. Dr. Kallberg is also to be congratulated as he acts as an advisor for Hershey.

I wish I could write more but this darn screen keeps jumping around and I can't see what I am writing. AARRGGGHHGH!

Kathleen

"I didn't know that one person was responsible for so many "crimes"!"

Criminal lyricist... I'd have a hard time arguing against it. I think he was just a hired gun for Mossman, who mined for melodies on a mass scale, from art music works that the public never wanted to hear otherwise. Apparently, copying or outright pilfering from artists who are truly original, is an old story. One of the articles from The Cambridge Companion to Chopin discusses it at some length, contrasting the creators of knock-off salon music, with other true creatives, such as Debussy. They see a big difference in students who are steeped in the works of those like Chopin, and whose own work has been influenced by him, yet who go to lengths not to steal from him.

There are cases where there are similarities, whether in structure or the employment of similar harmonic solutions. So be it. The revolutionary character of Chopin's work was not even appreciated for another hundred years after his time, so I don't think he'd be that easy to copy successfully.

I thought I'd let the Cambridge sink in a bit before I said anything about it. It was a job of work to read through this little volume, which appears so unassuming, yet it is full of good ideas and interesting information. I would recommend it, as long as you don't think the ideas are going to jump off the page into your lap; it's not quite that easy.

Jeff Kallberg's doctoral dissertation was recommended as a resource. I wonder how one would lay hands on such a document.

I have discovered that bored people are quite often boring.

I get the chills listening to Barry Manilow's (now don't laugh) "Could It Be Magic," taken from Chopin's prelude #20. At least the opening bars.

Kathleen

Hi Steven and all:

I have such a difficult time writing on the forum that I have to go to a word processing program and do a cut and paste.

To answer your question about what Hershey does. He is a remarkable actor and a magnificent pianist. And he combines both, in his own unique way, to both entertain, amaze and delight us.

He actually “becomes” George Gershwin and Chopin for those performances. He takes on their persona, complete with all mannerisms and accents and personality traits. For Gershwin (brash and bold and he even resembles him), he tells the audience about his life, hardly ever leaving the piano. He plays many of his “hits,“ and in between he continue to speak to us. How he accomplishes this is quite mind-boggling. Such concentration. He ends each and every performance of (well over 3,000) with a fully orchestrated version (for the piano) of Rhapsody in Blue. It knocks your socks off.

For M. Chopin (my personal favorite), he comes on stage, dressed as Chopin would have in his day, right down to those famous white gloves. We are in his room; the set is furnished with some very elegant props that create this illusion. He is giving a piano lesson to us and speaks as if we are his students. It is quite eerie how much he resembles Chopin (really spooky). His accent is totally charming, a combination of New Yorkese, French, Polish and English (if that is possible.) Again, he seldom leaves the piano, but at the same time, tells us about his life. And play the piano, he does. Specifically selected compositions that move the story along. All with pathos and bits of humor. If a person didn’t love Chopin before, that same person would certainly love him afterwards…thanks to Hershey. For the final piece, he plays the “Romance” movement of (I think) the concerto in E minor.

Now Beethoven is very different in that Hershey actually portrays three different people while on the stage. This play is based on a true story by Dr. Gerhard von Breuning. Hershey plays the doctor at the age of 56, then as a young boy of 12, then the boy’s father, and then, of course, as Beethoven himself. And he does this quite convincingly and so effortlessly that the changes of characters just flow from one to the other with no confusion on the part of the audience. The story is told from the Doctor’s point of view, but when Hershey becomes Beethoven, several times during the play, the effect is chilling. When he recites the Heiligenstadt Testament, the theater is stone silence. Those tears in his eyes are probably reflecting many of those in the audience. And yes, the piano (and what a beauty it is) takes center stage. Both the “Doctor” and “Beethoven” play excerpts from the Moonlight and Pathetique sonatas, and portions of the 5th and 9th symphonies, just to name a few. Hershey plays with all the “dolce” the music calls for, but when it calls for power, wow!! There is so much more. But I guess you’ll just have to see it for yourself.

From the above, the local critics need not worry that their jobs are in jeopardy. I feel so inadequate when trying to describe something so memorable and words certainly do fail me here.

I am going to ask Hershey to join us once again when he has the time and energy. He was such a helpful and knowledgeable addition to our forum. And he was funny too!!

Sorry for any and all misspelled words and grammatical errors.

Kathleen

Here is the website for his trilogy.

http://www.eightyeightentertainment.com/

Kathleen