Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#130717 - 06/30/05 11:10 AM New Schimmel T130 with Scrapes on Back
logesiegfried Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 28
Loc: San Francisco
I have been looking for a new upright for a few months and have really had fun reading your comments. You've really made my search even more adventuresome sharing all your experiences and wisdom so much so that I fear I've become somewhat "addicted" to my piano hunt, seeking out ever more exotic treasures I've never even heard of before, such as Grotrian, Steingraeber, Sauter, Seiler, Bluethner and the ilk. I've been just amazed at the differences between the different brands in sound and touch and even differences that occur between different versions of the exact same model. I'm an opera singer who has decided to upgrade to a larger piano. A grand piano could never fit into my small city apartment and I'd probably be evicted if I tried (lol). My little 44" Yamaha upright still with an amazing sound has been a real workhouse, having survived through my constant practice, rehearsals and performances of about 10 big operatic roles from Wagner to Puccini. I first began considering upgrading to a larger piano after hearing a new Steinway K-52 upright. I was stunned by the power of the bass which seemed amplified. The dealer explained that since the soundboard was that much higher (52") therefore the strings were longer and the resonating area much larger, hence the more powerful, amplified sound. Through your advice and comments, I've learned that "professional" uprights are all about this size. Consequently, I've nearly turned into a "professonal upright hunter-o-holic" looking for an upright to suit my Wagnerian singing. Unfortunately, short of winning the lottery, I fear some of the more esoteric uprights like Steingraeber or Grotrian will remain out of my reach. I even had a dealer tell me a few days ago that the Grotrian 52" now lists for 42K! Sure sounds like it'd be a great colleague, though.

My current #1 potential now is a Schimmel 130 51". The other two contenders were a Petrof 132 which had a wonderful, dark round tone but I found the action a little stiff, and the same for a Seiler 132. The Schimmel, however, has a wonderful tone and action, all the power I need in the bass and a beautiful, pearl-like treble. I have been offered what seems to be a great deal for this Schimmel T130 (12.5K) which may be a unique chance and price, given escalating world oil prices and inflation. I am nearly ready to close the deal but I have a couple of questions. On the left back of the piano are a couple of scratches not visible from the front. One is a scratch on the lovely mahogany finish which wraps around the top edge from the front. The other is a scrape on the white part of the wood further in, not quite a gash but definitely a scrape. I've been told that these will be taken care of, varnished or sanded over, I suppose. But I wonder what are the chances these even relatively minor looking scrapes could have resulted from some kind of blow or trauma which could have affected the interior, however minor. Could superficial scrapes like these affect inner workings?

The other question I have regards the touch. I like the tone & action of this Schimmel very much and maybe it was my imagination, but I was quite surprised to feel something I'd never noticed before in playing a piano, kind of like a gap in the consistency of the action. This wasn't too big, but there seemed to be an off-balance of action/touch as one approaches the treble in one area where it seemed like the action was not quite equalized creating a cir. 5-note "hole-like" feeling around C to G, the second above middle C. I don't know if this piano has been "prepped" per se but do suppose this could be regulated maybe by weight adjusting.

The seller seems quite conscientious and has agreed to "take care" of both issues. My question is should have have this piano inspected by a technician? Is this a great deal I should close before losing it? Thank you all once again. I will continue to enjoy your postings!

Top
(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#130718 - 06/30/05 11:20 AM Re: New Schimmel T130 with Scrapes on Back
Casalborgone Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 1046
Loc: San Francisco Area
These problems can be remedied. Why not make a commitment to purchase the piano once the problems have been fixed?

It sounds like you have found a piano that you really like and can afford; that's a real accomplishment!
_________________________
Mike
Registered Piano Technician
Member Piano Technicians Guild
Not currently working in the piano trade.

Top
#130719 - 06/30/05 12:54 PM Re: New Schimmel T130 with Scrapes on Back
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
logesiegfried,

Yes you should have this---or any other---instrument inspected by an R.P.T. before you even make a deposit.

Mark Skowronek, R.P.T. has helped me twice. Right now he's preparing a pre-purchse inspection report that I'll post on this forum. Mark's at http://www.absolutepiano.com/

Mark should be able to give you an independent opinion about those finish blemishes, too.

Re the tone of these instruments, I've noticed from other members posts that tone preferences can change, upon subsequent listenings.

DavidH

PS, by any chance did you attend last season's La Boheme? Mimi's death aria by that Russian, sublime.

Top
#130720 - 06/30/05 01:40 PM Re: New Schimmel T130 with Scrapes on Back
Jeff Bauer Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/03
Posts: 1718
Loc: Los Angeles
 Quote:
Originally posted by logesiegfried:
But I wonder what are the chances these even relatively minor looking scrapes could have resulted from some kind of blow or trauma which could have affected the interior, however minor. Could superficial scrapes like these affect inner workings?

...seemed like the action was not quite equalized creating a cir. 5-note "hole-like" feeling around C to G, the second above middle C. I don't know if this piano has been "prepped" per se but do suppose this could be regulated maybe by weight adjusting. [/b]
On the topic of "trauma" - if a piano falls are gets hit hard enough to cause real structural damage, there will evidence of that somewhere on the case. That evidence would be more severe than minor scratches. Minor scratches are quite common on pianos due to technicians working on them, time on the sales floor, and moving the piano from place to place.

The "hole like feeling" could be play between the adjustment screw under the wippen and the wippen itself.

Actions can be regulated, and the fall out of regulation with the weather.

Chances are you are making an excellent decision on a very nice upright.
_________________________
Jeff Bauer | Keyboard Concepts

Yamaha | Schimmel | Bösendorfer | Knabe | Seiler | Restored Steinway

BauerHouse Productions

Top
#130721 - 06/30/05 05:40 PM Re: New Schimmel T130 with Scrapes on Back
tonyf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/28/05
Posts: 226
Loc: upstate, NY
When I purchased a used Schimmel mahogany 120J, there was a dent on the top of the lid where the previous owner dropped their piano lamp. There was also a scratch on the side from their dog. The piano dealer had a furniture refinisher come in and touch up the two spots and you could not even tell where they were. If there was a traumatic event, it would do much more damage that just surface scratches. The action can be adjusted by a qualified technician.

You will thoroughly enjoy the sound action and depth of range on the 130. I heard someone playing a 130 in the showroom when I was looking at a new grand and thought for sure they were playing a grand. Good luck and the price seems competitive.

Top
#130722 - 07/01/05 07:33 AM Re: New Schimmel T130 with Scrapes on Back
logesiegfried Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 28
Loc: San Francisco
Thank you for your responses. This is a new Schimmel T130 still in the store, so does one need to have an independent technician actually go into the piano showroom to run tests on the new piano before purchase? (I don't want to offend the dealer.) Will the dealer "prep" the piano in the store, or is this done when the piano comes home (is prepping more than just tuning)? How would you know the action has been regulated, or whatever else is involved in prepping? Thx again, tom

Top
#130723 - 07/01/05 09:50 AM Re: New Schimmel T130 with Scrapes on Back
Casalborgone Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 1046
Loc: San Francisco Area
It seems like your questions have to do with issues of trust: can you trust your dealer to fix the finish and the action "hole." Also whether you can trust your perceptions that this is a piano you like and want to have. Regarding the latter, I suggest that you trust your perceptions; it sounds like you are an experienced musician with a highly developed taste.

With regard to your dealer, as I suggested to you above, why not ask him to fix the action regulation problem before you pay for the piano? This would not offend the dealer, I am sure.

With regard to what is done in the store, it all depends upon the dealer and the piano. Some pianos are very well tuned and regulated at the factory and arrive at the dealers in good shape. Such a piano, over time, can go out of regulation and tune just because of environmental influences and time (entropy is a fancy word for this). So well-prepared pianos, after a while, will need further regulation. Some very conscientious dealers will put lots of resources into their pianos to keep them in prime condition on the showroom floor; others will not.

I cannot tell you whether or not to trust your dealer. My advice is to ask him to perform preparation tasks on the piano so that you no longer perceive any problems. If you cannot trust your dealer, then having an independent technician look at the piano can help you with this problem.
_________________________
Mike
Registered Piano Technician
Member Piano Technicians Guild
Not currently working in the piano trade.

Top
#130724 - 07/01/05 09:58 AM Re: New Schimmel T130 with Scrapes on Back
palley Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 708
Loc: Binghamton, New York
 Quote:
Originally posted by logesiegfried:
... The other is a scrape on the white part of the wood further in, not quite a gash but definitely a scrape. ... [/b]
If this refers to the sound board, an extra dose of caution would be in order.
_________________________
Phil

Top
#130725 - 07/01/05 10:30 AM Re: New Schimmel T130 with Scrapes on Back
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
logesiegfried,

Buyers and sellers have complimentary interests, they do not have identical interests.

Dealers' techs are not usually the most highly quaified ones. After choosing your piano, you'll be working with your tech anyway. Please consider starting now.

And as for offending the dealer, if he objects at all, run don't walk to another dealer.

Here's a link to a thread that includes GreatLakes' post re how consumers should interact with dealers. He's talking about price negotioation, but the principle applies re your tech inspecting what may become your piano:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/10934.html#000015

Please keep the forum updated on your search,

DavidH

Top

Moderator:  Ken Knapp, Piano World, Rickster 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Download & Print Sheet Music Instantly
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
145 registered (Almaviva, 36251, ADWyatt, accordeur, 47 invisible), 1667 Guests and 38 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
74257 Members
42 Forums
153603 Topics
2251253 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
DIsassemble Kawai MP10/MP11
by prox
Today at 10:59 AM
Action regulating
by pater57
Today at 08:59 AM
Kurzweil SP5-8 as main studio keyboard/stage piano
by Barty
Today at 08:33 AM
Greg Pauley in Concert June 1st, Sunday 3:30pm
by Larry Buck
Today at 07:58 AM
Happy Easter!
by Marko in Boston
Today at 06:58 AM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission