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Joined: Nov 2009
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Greetings! I am the newbie and this is my first post to the forum.
I am looking for a good grand piano for my fiancee who is a professional piano teacher for classical music. I would like to know what's your advice about Kawai RX3 and Brodmann PE 187 as these two are about the same price in my country which is equivalent to 31K US dollar.
Thanks in advance!
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I am going to say go with the Kawai, but thats bias on my part. You are going to get a very solid piano with the RX3 and Kawai has a great customer support base. I don't know much about Broadman but I absoloutely loved the RX3 I played on. If you could find one, you might want to consider the RX3 Blak edition, but it will only be sold depending on which continent you live on. I say go for the Kawai, but go for the piano that speaks to you the most and an action you really like to is also important.
Louis Bousquet
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Which country are you writing from and where exactly are you located?
These pianos may be comparable in quality but the Brodmann 187 should be much more reasonable than the Kawai RX3.
This is exactly what gives the piano such appeal and edge in the marketplace today.
Please let us know...
Norbert
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...and you might want to get her to play the pianos (and others?) to see which one she prefers. Personally, I'd go for the Kawai RX3 if it is priced equivalent to the Brodmann. BUT, I'd also bet you could get both pianos far less than the price you suggested here. And, like Norbert said, the Brodmann shouldn't cost as much as the RX3.
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I would suggest picking the piano she likes best, particularly if the price of both instruments is somewhat similar.
If you like both instruments equally, I would probably opt for the Kawai RX, as these pianos have an established reputation for durability (assuming she will be teaching on this piano in addition to personal practicing).
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My fiancee has played Brodmann once and she like it. I will take her to play the Kawai RX3 this weekend.
The price I have posted above is including local tax and it is equivalent to 28K before tax. I am writing from New Zealand. In here, only one exclusively dealer are selling Brodmann, same story to Kawai.
I've been told Kawai RX3 is made in Japan and Brodmann PE 187 is assembled in china? Will it be any quality difference? I want the piano to be used for a long time (50 year+) with proper maintenance.
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I've been told Kawai RX3 is made in Japan and Brodmann PE 187 is assembled in china? Will it be any quality difference? I want the piano to be used for a long time (50 year+) with proper maintenance.
Brodmann is a Chinese piano with European components. "Assembled" in China is somewhat misleading. I would just say it's made in China.  You are looking at 2 very different pianos with opposite company history. Kawai is a very well established piano company with decades of track records. Brodmann is still quite new as a company despite of the company's intentional or unintentional reference to its European heritage. If you do believe in statistic then you would have a higher chance with the RX-3 lasting for a while in comparison to the Brodmann of which the longevity factor is still unknown because the brand has not been around long enough to provide statistical records to judge from. The Brodmann devotees on PW will argue otherwise pointing out the solid construction and quality of Brodmann pianos but won't be able to assure anything about longevity without a proven product history. The Brodmann skepticals, including myself, on the other hand can not say for sure if Brodmann pianos will not last either. At this point, it's just unknown and only time will tell. Do your research, understand the risks and potentials. Buy something that you can enjoy many years to come without worry. If budget is a concern, then save up some more then buy later. Good luck.
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I've been told Kawai RX3 is made in Japan and Brodmann PE 187 is assembled in china? Will it be any quality difference? I want the piano to be used for a long time (50 year+) with proper maintenance.
Brodmann is a Chinese piano with European components. "Assembled" in China is somewhat misleading. I would just say it's made in China. You are looking at 2 very different pianos with opposite company history. Kawai is a very well established piano company with decades of track records. Brodmann is still quite new as a company despite of the company's intentional or unintentional reference to its European heritage. If you do believe in statistic then you would have a higher chance with the RX-3 lasting for a while in comparison to the Brodmann of which the longevity factor is still unknown because the brand has not been around long enough to provide statistical records to judge from. The Brodmann devotees on PW will argue otherwise pointing out the solid construction and quality of Brodmann pianos but won't be able to assure anything about longevity without a proven product history. The Brodmann skepticals, including myself, on the other hand can not say for sure if Brodmann pianos will not last either. At this point, it's just unknown and only time will tell. Do your research, understand the risks and potentials. Buy something that you can enjoy many years to come without worry. If budget is a concern, then save up some more then buy later. Good luck. jickyhan - I think 50 years+ is a little over-optimistic for a teaching piano even if it is only used as a teaching piano in the first 20 years. Mid range pianos such as Kawai and Brodmann, because of their relatively low 'new cost v. rebuild' ratio, fall into the Asian philosophy of 'don't rebuild, but replace'. Regarding pricing (and apologies to the dealer who is quoting you the equivalent of US$31,000 for a 187), there is usually a hefty premium paid for a Kawai RX3 to a Brodmann 187. koiloco - don't get me wrong, I think the RX3 is a great piano. However, using your reasoning that it is a safer bet to go with the company with the 'statistics and track record': Kawai - 1.Yes decades of excellent manufacturing track record. 2.Their plastic action components do not have decades of excellent track record (as yet). Brodmann - 1. No decades of excellent manufacturing track record (as yet). 2. Components come from companies that have decades of excellent track record. German Roslau strings, German Strunz soundboards, American pinblocks (Berkel), Langer actions. Brodmann offer a 10 year guarantee - in my experience, if something goes wrong with a piano, even signs of unreasonable wear and tear, it is obvious within the first 5 years, let alone 10.
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If you are looking for this piano to last you 50+ years, let alone doubling as a teaching piano may be living on a prayer-Bon Jovi The piano will need replacing and unless you are willing to fork over that same amount of cash again, maybe you should look at some used Kawais and Yamahas, if even only 2 years old. Atleast with that you won't have that showroom floor price. Pianos aren't so dissimilar to cars in the sense that once you take them off the lot they go down in price, but not near as much a car would. (please allow exceptions like brand types and sales)
Louis Bousquet
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Both pianos are great but they are different.
All you need to choose are ears and fingers.
Projections of lifespan are difficult. Both pianos are very well constructed.
Have a technician inspect the Brodmann and you'll find out more. There are some important details in the construction that show these guys are really serious!
Nick's Piano Showroom Naples, Fort Myers, & Sarasota, FL New Estonia, Mason & Hamlin, Kawai, Brodmann & Ritmuller 239-206-4541 direct line www.nickspiano.comConcert Piano Technician, Dealer, and Pianist
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Have a tech inspect the Kawai. There are some important details in the construction that show these guys are really really serious!!
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i don't think there was any suggestion that kawais aren't well made instruments? just that, as the newcomer brodmann has more to prove in that department, and an inspection by a tech would help provide some of that proof. no?
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i don't think there was any suggestion that kawais aren't well made instruments? just that, as the newcomer brodmann has more to prove in that department, and an inspection by a tech would help provide some of that proof. no? Well......no. While both pianos are well made, without a track record, longevity cannot be accurately determined by examining the finished product.
Piano Industry Consultant
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If the 'track record' theory was always applied, nothing new could ever enter the market.
For those that doubt, I say look closer. Soundboard quality and construction, rim, pinblock, action, etc.
One of my favorite quotes from the Fine supplement is "Buy what you can see with your eyes and hear with your ears."
Nick's Piano Showroom Naples, Fort Myers, & Sarasota, FL New Estonia, Mason & Hamlin, Kawai, Brodmann & Ritmuller 239-206-4541 direct line www.nickspiano.comConcert Piano Technician, Dealer, and Pianist
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If the 'track record' theory was always applied, nothing new could ever enter the market. Agreed, but usually the "upstarts" are priced at a substantial enough discount to their perceived competitors to justify taking a little risk (regarding longevity) by the purchaser. It appears this is not the case for the original poster.
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In the "battle of the brands" one should not introduce those concerns which are either not founded on evidence [any here tech to prove one piano will outlast the other?] or are just opinions.
In Europe there is a widespread opinion [prejudice?] that oriental pianos, regardless of make, won't last anywhere comparable to their own.
On the other hand, when there I have played some pretty shabby pre & post war pianos which didn't exactly stand the test of time either.
I'm with Larry Fine here: don't buy on fear mongering but what "you can see with your eyes and hear with your ears."
And can afford.....
Good luck and respect to all!
Norbert
Last edited by Norbert; 11/18/09 12:57 PM.
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[quote=koiloco][quote=jickyhan]
Brodmann - 1. No decades of excellent manufacturing track record (as yet).
2. Components come from companies that have decades of excellent track record. German Roslau strings, German Strunz soundboards, American pinblocks (Berkel), Langer actions.
I am not a piano tech but I don't think it's as simple as getting good components and assembling them together and voila!!! And Chris, picking out the "plastic" component in Kawai pianos as your counter example is indeed quite interesting. You must use this often with your customers when they bring up Kawai pianos in your store.
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jickyhan,
One thing you probably should also consider is that the Brodmanns need some more pre sales dealer preparation (regulation & voicing) than the Kawais (knowing also the Japanese brands benefit from some).
So you should check what the Brodmann dealer has to offer in this department (pre sales prep). If he isn't good at this you will probably have to rely, post delivery, on an independent tech, which then could cost you some extra money.
schwammerl.
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Koiloco
I am not a piano tech but I don't think it's as simple as getting good components and assembling them together and voila!!! For sure this is true. Brodmann sells its suppliers by name and nationality, but has nothing to say about which factories in China it has entrusted with the manufacture of its pianos. Since Brodmann owns Langer, it might just as well say that it's a Brodmann action. After all, it's as good as Brodmann wants it to be. Even if the action were Renner, what would that really mean? Are all Renner actions designed for specific maker customers and installed by those makers equally pleasing? Of course not. In any of these X versus Y threads that pit a new contender against an established brand, the new contender has much to gain and little to lose. Just by being in the conversation (e.g. Diapason magazine test), it scores points. Then if it doesn't embarrass itself, it scores some more. If it is truly competitive in the short-term (new sample to new sample), then it is supposed that it is a long-term keeper despite the fact that its manufacturing plant and parts sourcers could be changed at the drop of a hat. What's in it for the established brand? Hard to think of anything.
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Good Point. I would also like to say that your dog is really cute.
Louis Bousquet
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