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#1049299 - 06/24/06 08:17 PM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
geek in the pink Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 340
Loc: New Jersey
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianofairy:
Wow, is this La Campanella really that notoriously difficult? Anyway, after hours just getting the first few bars right, I think some of you maybe right, that this piece is too difficult. But I'm not sure if I want to give up learning this piece. I am a career woman in IT industry and I have never given up on a project before, no matter how much difficult and impossible the project is (some clients can be absolute pain!). I have been taught in my life to be extremely competitive and believe in the impossible because of the incredibly cuttroat competition in my field (I work in Singapore). When I started learning programming, I catched up pretty fast, and within one year of learning, I topped the C++ module in my course last time. Most people in university picked up their skills within a short span of 4 years and they become very good at them. So, by logic, I feel that learning piano can be approached the same way. My teacher told me that it's impossible to be a competent pianist at 4 years, she herself has learned piano over 10 years to get where she is. I showed her the Arthur Cimarro's website and she proclaimed that the guy was exaggerating. I don't like people who are pessimistic, because I feel that's what limit them. Preconceived notions set by society often prevent people from achieving the greatness that they are.

I'm actually thinking of a career switch to become a pianist. I've been attending classical concerts for almost 2 years now and I really feel that music is what I truly want to do. I've read about this post that has the link to the website of Arthur Cimarro and I feel that if he can do it in such a short time, I should be able to do it too. I'm thinking, how long would it take before I can get into a conservatory and play the real pieces? [/b]
Well, yes it's really that difficult. In order to play it well, like Yundi did in that video, your techinical abilities need to be at a near virtuoso level.

It also seems like your piano situation parallels mine in some respects. We're both 23 and more or less just beginners (I've been playing for about a year now), and we want to make some sort of career out of music, except your goal is more classical based and mine is comtemporary blues/gospel to play in Church. What's more, we both have an attitude that allows us to want to tackle ANY piece just because... well, I don't have a teacher so I don't have anybody telling me what pieces are too hard and what pieces are not; and over the past year, I've attempted many difficult pieces to little or no avail--pieces like Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu, or Mozart's Ronda Alla Turca. I can tell you, it's not like learning C++ or being pressured to meet client demands. In order to learn difficult pieces, techniques must be mastered and sorry to say that there is no short cut, and vis-a-vis La Campanella, doing trills with the 4th and 5th fingers is incredibly hard excute evenly. It might take years just to develop that skill alone. What happens with piano playing is as you progress, the pieces you'll play will start to introduce harder and harder techniques, and you'll gradually accumulate the skills necessary to tackle difficult repertoire. What you're trying to do is play a piece that requires YEARS of training without having trained for years... that's like asking to travel from the USA to Singapore in three hours--it takes time, there's no two ways about it.

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#1049300 - 06/24/06 08:25 PM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
dvdiva Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 249
Loc: Manila
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianofairy:
I am a career woman in IT industry and I have never given up on a project before, no matter how much difficult and impossible the project is (some clients can be absolute pain!). I have been taught in my life to be extremely competitive and believe in the impossible because of the incredibly cuttroat competition in my field (I work in Singapore). When I started learning programming, I catched up pretty fast, and within one year of learning, I topped the C++ module in my course last time. Most people in university picked up their skills within a short span of 4 years and they become very good at them. So, by logic, I feel that learning piano can be approached the same way. My teacher told me that it's impossible to be a competent pianist at 4 years, she herself has learned piano over 10 years to get where she is. I showed her the Arthur Cimarro's website and she proclaimed that the guy was exaggerating. I don't like people who are pessimistic, because I feel that's what limit them. Preconceived notions set by society often prevent people from achieving the greatness that they are.[/b]
Wow! I really admire your drive and determination! With that kind of spirit, I do believe that anything is possible! Seems to me you'd be the type who would benefit by reading Chuan Chang's book. In his preface are testimonials of adult piano beginners who have progressed in a relatively short time. Maybe his method would work for you! You can download his book here:

http://members.aol.com/chang8825/completebook.pdf

Of course, I'm not saying you'll be able to play like a virtuoso in 6 months, but who knows? You might secretly be Wonder Woman and have powers we don't know about! \:D

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#1049301 - 06/24/06 08:28 PM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
gabytu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1521
Loc: Portland, Or.
La Campanella is considered one of the most difficult pieces to play well. I say try it, and see how it goes.
Regarding big leaps all over the keyboard. I found that learning the Brahms Hungarian dances were a great help in finding my way around the keyboard. He is all over the place, and these are wonderful compositions, as well as exercises in big leaps. At first I found them impossible to execute, but bit by bit they became much easier and I was delighted to find myself landing on the correct keys. Gaby Tu

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#1049302 - 06/24/06 08:31 PM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2895
Loc: Florida
You are talking of that Paganini/Liszt La Campanella, right? It's a difficult piece even for advanced pianists. There are jumps, octaves, and 4-5 finger trills that are beyond beginner and intermediate level.

If you really want to play Liszt, there are a few easier ones that I know Yundi Li also plays often. Liszt Liebestraum No 3 and Liszt transcription of Schumann Widmung. These 2 pieces are intermediate-advanced level.

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#1049303 - 06/24/06 08:33 PM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 20780
Loc: Oakland
I saw the heading of this topic, and thought, "We should get together, on lots of pianos, and each of us can play one beat of it."

I have dibs on the 214th beat!
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#1049304 - 06/24/06 08:48 PM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
pianofairy,

I admire your ambition, and I encourage you always to follow your dreams and ambitions.

However...

For a beginner who has been playing for a few months and can play a simplified version of Fur Elise to work on La Campanella would be very similar to a 6-year-old who knows only the basics of addition and subtraction to be working on advanced calculus. (In my humble opinion.)


Especially if you want to be a professional pianist, realize that it takes a very long time with a lot of very hard work to get to the level where you can not only play these pieces, but play them well. Don't give up on this dream of playing La Campanella - just postpone it for a while. You probably won't find a good teacher who will work on La Campanella with you at this point, and for good reason - because it is simply a very, very difficult piece of music, even for advanced pianists, and your time would be better spent working on the original version of Fur Elise, 1st movement of Moonlight Sonata, some Bach minuets, and maybe Clementi sonatinas. Then you can move on to maybe some of the easier Mozart Sonatas and some of the easier Chopin Preludes. Your teacher(s) will help you with that, but I strongly encourage you to be patient and realize that there is an order to things, and just as one has to learn first arithmetic and then algebra and then geometry and then trigonometry and THEN finally calculus, so too must a pianist go through steps in order to best prepare himself/herself for the higher levels.
_________________________
Sam

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#1049305 - 06/24/06 08:52 PM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
geek in the pink Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 340
Loc: New Jersey
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianojerome:
pianofairy,

I admire your ambition, and I encourage you always to follow your dreams and ambitions.

However...

For a beginner who has been playing for a few months and can play a simplified version of Fur Elise to work on La Campanella would be very similar to a 6-year-old who knows only the basics of addition and subtraction to be working on advanced calculus. (In my humble opinion.)


[/b]
That's a very accurate analogy, I think.

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#1049306 - 06/24/06 10:16 PM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
Opus45 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 918
Loc: North Carolina
 Quote:
from ShiroKuro
I recomment that you brace yourself for a lot of pessimism, and then go over to the Pianists Corner and post a question asking people to make a list of skills and pieces that you would need in order to enter a music conservatory or university.
This is a very good idea Pianofairy. Most of the folks who post on that forum have "been there, done that, or are doing it" and you're likely to get a very realistic appraisal, and more informed advice from there. Most of us in this forum are adult beginners with more modest aspirations.

I am very impressed with your determination!
_________________________
Jeff

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#1049307 - 06/24/06 10:21 PM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
To get into a music school as a performance major, most schools require for an audition:

-- a baroque piece (Bach, Handel, Scarlatti...)
-- a complete classical sonata (some schools require a Beethoven sonata)
-- a romantic piece (Chopin, Liszt, Brahms, Debussy...)
-- a 20th century piece (Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Bartok, Schoenberg...)

Some schools require a virtuosic etude. If the etude is romantic, you still have to play another romantic piece + the etude.

(all played from memory)


Additionally, some schools ask you to sight-read at the audition. Oberlin will ask you to improvise on the happy birthday theme, and most schools give a written theory test as well.
_________________________
Sam

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#1049308 - 06/24/06 10:35 PM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
islamey Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Singapore
to signa: in piano, talent is not really the only determining factor. yes, talent may play a part in the start, but it is ultimately your drive that gets you where you are. pure talent coupled with laziness and lack of ambition will get you nowhere. yet, a chinese idiom goes "qin neng bu zhuo"- which means that hard work can make up for a lack of proficiency. no one was born to play octave jumps and running chromatic thirds. when i started playing piano, i hated it and i hardly progressed. yet, when i started to love playing the piano, I explored the furthest corners of literature and i now surpass some of my peers who once overshadowed me for a long time- it's a great feeling (: so don't be overly restricted by the notion of talent too.

but also, at the same time, i find that some of u, while acknowledging that there are some really technically difficult parts, you dismiss them as impossible to play or overly difficult, without even trying. some passages are easier than they look while others are more difficult than they seem. la campanella, thankfully, is mostly a case of the former.

the big leaps are not difficult to get- a little bit of practise each day gets it done in about 2 weeks. don't hurry to get something settled by cramming practise into a 3-hour timeslot on a single session. you will accomplish less. I prefer to play the whole piece over and slowly figure things out and let the whole piece improve as an overall thing. this is also for another reason- that la campanella, while looking something like a seamlessly written "theme and variations" kind of thing, you need to present the thing as a whole song, rather than a piece that is composed of a theme and variations. the feeling is much different.

i know a friend who has been playing piano for 9 years only and he has already played la campanella. it's not really as difficult as people make it out to be- rather, they are afraid of the LOOKS of the technical demands, which are not overly ridiculous. practise! it would take most people a few months to learn it, so don't give up and just keep working.

the determination to get there will drive you there in the end.
_________________________
-islamey

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#1049309 - 06/24/06 10:53 PM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by islamey:
i know a friend who has been playing piano for 9 years only and he has already played la campanella. [/b]
9 years is a bit longer than 7 months.

It may be that in relatively few years, a student might learn a tremendous amount - from working tremoundsly. But one needs to get to that level. It would be unreasonable to have a little kid who can hardly read "Curious George" to read Shakespeare's "Hamlet". Hamlet is hard even for advanced readers, not just to pronounce the words, but to understand the words and to understand the context and to understand the play as a whole. But, absolutely, if that student were to work very hard, he might, even in 3 or 4 years, be able to read Hamlet. But just reading it is only a small part of the task.


Piano Fairy commented that others acquire their skills in 4 years at a university, so why can't a pianist do the same?

Music is different from mathematics.

In mathematics, what matters it that you get the right answer. It doesn't matter how you get the answer. It doesn't matter how long it took you, or how beautiful the process was. It doesn't even matter what process you used to get the answer. All that matters is the answer.

In chemistry, what matters is that you set up a lab experiment to discover what happens when two chemicals mix. It doesn't matter how beautiful or ugly the design is. It doesn't matter how long it takes you to set up the lab. What matters is that you ultimately figure out what happens when these two chemicals mix, regardless of how many times you tried the experiment, or even what the experiment actually was and how it worked. All that matters is the answer.


In music, it is not enough just to play the notes. What matters is not the 'answer'. What matters is the presentation of the 'answer', and that presentation can often be very difficult. The pianist not only has to understand the notes, and not only has to understand how they fit together, and how to artfully play them - she has to actually have the physical ability to play in a manner that artfully brings out all of the details while at the same time tying the piece together as a whole, and she has to actually *play* that way, and not just understand how to play that way.


Sure, if you really really really want to do it, and you work very hard, you might be able to play it. I don't doubt that. But *how* is what is most important, and what is most difficult, and what requires the most experience.


Remember also that it is not the only beautiful piece of music. There is *a lot* of very beautiful music to be played, and you don't have to play it all at the same time.
_________________________
Sam

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#1049310 - 06/24/06 11:08 PM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3239
Loc: not in Japan anymore
Sam, thanks for posting that list of requirements, it was something along the lines of what I was imagining, but it looks even harder actually written out!! Aren't you a student at IU? So you did something along the lines of what you posted here? Wow, bravo!

Islamey, I don't think anyone is dismissing any techniques as impossible. We're saying they should be attempted after other steps are completed. To repeat Sam's comment, we're talking about 7 months of playing here, not a few years. Yes, a positive attitude is important, indispensible even. But piano is a complex skill and should be approached systematically, with planning and forethought guiding the work at hand, not just a desire to play.

I have never tried to play La Campenella (I never even bought the score, a quick look-over in the music store was enough to tell me that I'm not ready.) But I have attemped to play other things that I thought were way beyond my level. Some of those I gave up and put away (and some, I have since learned how to play, after working on other things in between.) Others I struggled through with more or less success depending on the piece. But all of my playing decision are made with a mixture of desire (I want to play this!) and calculation (am I likely to make progress in 1 month? 3 months? 6 months?)

I think people are reacting because it seems like Pianofairy needs a little more realistic planning and calculation in her pianistic pursuits.

Just my two yen...
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#1049311 - 06/24/06 11:23 PM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by ShiroKuro:
Sam, thanks for posting that list of requirements, it was something along the lines of what I was imagining, but it looks even harder actually written out!! Aren't you a student at IU? So you did something along the lines of what you posted here? Wow, bravo!
[/b]
Nope. Michigan. \:\)
_________________________
Sam

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#1049312 - 06/25/06 12:25 AM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3239
Loc: not in Japan anymore
Oops, sorry! \:\) But you are in a music program, right? What's the specific field? (i.e. music performance, music ed etc)
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#1049313 - 06/25/06 12:30 AM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by islamey:
to signa: in piano, talent is not really the only determining factor. yes, talent may play a part in the start, but it is ultimately your drive that gets you where you are. pure talent coupled with laziness and lack of ambition will get you nowhere. yet, a chinese idiom goes "qin neng bu zhuo"- which means that hard work can make up for a lack of proficiency. no one was born to play octave jumps and running chromatic thirds. when i started playing piano, i hated it and i hardly progressed. yet, when i started to love playing the piano, I explored the furthest corners of literature and i now surpass some of my peers who once overshadowed me for a long time- it's a great feeling (: so don't be overly restricted by the notion of talent too.

but also, at the same time, i find that some of u, while acknowledging that there are some really technically difficult parts, you dismiss them as impossible to play or overly difficult, without even trying. some passages are easier than they look while others are more difficult than they seem. la campanella, thankfully, is mostly a case of the former.
[/b]
talent is part of it which would make things easier to begin with, but it only takes one so far without working hard. my teacher said that there're certain things you born with, such as ability to play really fast (like him), and he said that he can play as fast as he was a teenager then, but what difference between now and then for him is the quality of sound he plays. so, what i am trying to say is that talent plays some role in piano or any kind of activity, and that's why there's only so few of great pianists, artists or athlets in history, comparing with the entire population. but without such talent, one still could achieve some higher goals through some determination and hard working. you may not be able to play as fast as Richter, but you still can play well. that's my point and i agree with your saying about Chinese proverb. but everyone has some limitations, in any field or playing piano. sometimes, no matter how much you try, you just cannot go beyond certain point. such limitations might be improved through a lot of practice or just time to let skills develop naturally. but everyone would agree that after a person only learned to play a simplified Fur Elise, he/she is simply not ready for a Chopin etude or la Campenalla. i never said one shouldn't try (go ahead try it!), but my point is such trying may prove to be useless or worthless. i tried a lot of things myself, and i know what i am saying. btw, i taught myself to play piano, and nobody told me then what i can or cannot do, and i only speak from my own experience.

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#1049314 - 06/25/06 01:11 AM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2895
Loc: Florida
And I thought Schubert Gb major Impromptu is already at the limit for beginner-intermediate group. I know there is a Croatian Rhapsody study group. I am thinking of starting a Spanish Rhapsody study group \:D

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#1049315 - 06/25/06 02:56 AM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
islamey Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Singapore
slowly, i guess. its difficult to shoot the moon.

it will take lots of time.. so, i guess patience is also key ;\) hehehe.

la campanella will remain exactly as difficult as it is, and it will not get any harder. what will change, however, is your technical command. i wouldn't say that no matter how hard someone tries, they cannot get something. it has been years before people play la campanella, but they have finally overcome the technical difficulties- their own abilities have superseded the challenges presented by the music.

i guess its abit overboard if i say you can play it now, but you can start learning the easier bits of it, and slowly, as your technique improves, you may be able to play more of it, and finally, the whole of it.

but you should really enjoy the music and let yourself develop technically and musically- and scale the demands of la campanella finally. you can prepare yourself better by perhaps playing simpler pieces, challenging ones though- that perhaps involves lots of octaves or trills or running notes or jumps. or by playing simplified versions, and by listening to more recordings- not just the original, but also the paganini violin version. when you are prepared for la campanella, it will come to you eventually. just keep going yea. (:

guess i won't be posting much over e next few days. got exams ): sigh. ohwell. anyway, keep practising and have fun with paganini's and liszt's "little bell"! (:
_________________________
-islamey

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#1049316 - 06/25/06 03:23 AM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
Arabesque Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 548
Loc: Japan
I'm finding this discussion very inspiring and love that piece so much too so I had to add to the argument.

From what I know based on myself and other pianists the beginning pianist can tackle many signature works and a surprising number of pianists are able to play the opening bars of La Campanella. Now whilst it's necessary to select music carefully for the level, there is an argument for letting a beginner play some of a very difficult piece like La Campanella if they want to. This is because the player will be able to gain a confidence that other players who are prescribed graded pieces will not.

Furthermore, if any pianist working through a passage of very difficult music discovers that a certain passage is after all not so difficult and changes his or her belief system that pianist will learn La Campanella regardless of whatever anyone says. We do this every day anyway. There are pieces of music I thought I couldn't get right sweating it out in front of my teacher. She told me I was out of tempo, I was hitting wrong notes. She never told me I couldn't do it. I took the piece home I worked on it patiently at home, I took it to bed with me - it was solved. Because I knew if I got one section right the others would follow anyway. It's just like stringing beans when you come down to it except some beans are bigger than others.

All I can say, Fairy is I wish I had a fraction of the confidence you have in tackling La Campanella, and only that if you want to play it badly enough you ought to. But you will not do it if you can't master the techniques. And to do those you'll have to practice and play other repertoire than this. And then when you are ready and it will probably take years you will play La Campanella. Therefore learn the A, B, C's and then the vocabulary you need from other music, and exercises. You will do this very well because it is going to help you with La Campanella. Also being an accomplished programmer means you're able to work through a project logically. Set your goals then and say that you will play it by a certain time in the future and it doesn't matter what anyone says you'll get there.

I'm backing you all the way and you'll succeed!
_________________________
It don't mean a ting if it don't have dat swing

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#1049317 - 06/25/06 07:31 AM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
ranakor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 131
not meaning to be too harsh but i think this needs to be said : piano is a passion field & if you want to become a concertist you're gonna compete against an elite because people want to see the best (& not just someone who's decent) this is why the analogy with programming doesn't work in your studies there you were competing against regular people & so would you in a conservatory but once you go out & look for a job those poeple do find a job in programming & pianists find concertist jobs, however keep in mind that the pianists you see on tv are pretty much ONLY this that weren't of the "it took them 4 years while it took me 1" type hell they prolly are of the "oh **** it took me 1 year but only takes them 3 day!" lots of pianists you see on tv have been playing up to 8hours/day since their youth & while having the mentality you have will get you further faster it definately won't make you an international concert pianist in no time

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#1049318 - 06/25/06 12:49 PM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
bluemarine Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/04/06
Posts: 121
Loc: Croatia
sorry to tell it, but this is a sick ambition

you can not become a top bodibuilder in short time just because you work out a lot
you have to work out a lot in long period of time

so is with piano playing
_________________________
Living well is the best revenge.

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#1049319 - 06/25/06 12:58 PM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by ShiroKuro:
Oops, sorry! \:\) But you are in a music program, right? What's the specific field? (i.e. music performance, music ed etc) [/b]
Music History. So the requirements were a little less:

-- baroque piece (Bach Prelude and Fugue in C Minor, WTC I)
-- one movement of a Beethoven sonata (Op. 10 No. 2, 1st movement)
-- romantic or 20th century piece (Grieg Nocturne, Op. 54 No. 4)


I did audition first for performance, and prepared the longer program, but wasn't accepted. I might possibly audition again for performance this year or the next, to do a double-major in music history and performance.
_________________________
Sam

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#1049320 - 06/26/06 03:51 AM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
Ishmael Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 255
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianojerome:
 Quote:
Originally posted by islamey:
i know a friend who has been playing piano for 9 years only and he has already played la campanella. [/b]
9 years is a bit longer than 7 months.

It may be that in relatively few years, a student might learn a tremendous amount - from working tremoundsly. But one needs to get to that level. It would be unreasonable to have a little kid who can hardly read "Curious George" to read Shakespeare's "Hamlet". Hamlet is hard even for advanced readers, not just to pronounce the words, but to understand the words and to understand the context and to understand the play as a whole. But, absolutely, if that student were to work very hard, he might, even in 3 or 4 years, be able to read Hamlet. But just reading it is only a small part of the task.


Piano Fairy commented that others acquire their skills in 4 years at a university, so why can't a pianist do the same?

Music is different from mathematics.

In mathematics, what matters it that you get the right answer. It doesn't matter how you get the answer. It doesn't matter how long it took you, or how beautiful the process was. It doesn't even matter what process you used to get the answer. All that matters is the answer.

In chemistry, what matters is that you set up a lab experiment to discover what happens when two chemicals mix. It doesn't matter how beautiful or ugly the design is. It doesn't matter how long it takes you to set up the lab. What matters is that you ultimately figure out what happens when these two chemicals mix, regardless of how many times you tried the experiment, or even what the experiment actually was and how it worked. All that matters is the answer.


In music, it is not enough just to play the notes. What matters is not the 'answer'. What matters is the presentation of the 'answer', and that presentation can often be very difficult. The pianist not only has to understand the notes, and not only has to understand how they fit together, and how to artfully play them - she has to actually have the physical ability to play in a manner that artfully brings out all of the details while at the same time tying the piece together as a whole, and she has to actually *play* that way, and not just understand how to play that way.


Sure, if you really really really want to do it, and you work very hard, you might be able to play it. I don't doubt that. But *how* is what is most important, and what is most difficult, and what requires the most experience.


Remember also that it is not the only beautiful piece of music. There is *a lot* of very beautiful music to be played, and you don't have to play it all at the same time. [/b]
Kinda off topic, but math and piano are not that different IMHO.

By playing the "right notes" at the "right time", you can pass a math exam, even finish your undergrad and get a master's degree in math. But to become a "concert mathematician", you must first finish your Ph.D. and learn what's it all about. You can't just read a book and understand the process of proving something that's not done before. Absorbing this requires at least a couple of years usually no matter how ambitious you are. Even after you got your Ph.D., it's still a long way until you're a "concert mathematician" and not everybody can become one.

Well, there are some people who got their degrees in no time and proved some really nice theorems. But, it is hard to say that everybody who believe in themselves can do it. Unfortunately, we, human beings, have some limits. We can't even move things without touching them ;\) .

So, in brief; not everybody can become a Yundi Li or an Andrew Wiles. Yes, they worked hard, but working hard doesn't guarantee being one of them. (BTW, Andrew Wiles is a mathematician who proved Fermat's last theorem and became very famous).

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#1049321 - 06/26/06 04:01 AM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
islamey Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Singapore
why does everyone feel they have to become a yundi li or something like him just to achieve la campanella? maybe i'm wrong but thats the feeling i'm getting from people. yea.

la campanella is challenging, but not impossibly difficult. you don't have to be a concert pianist or even a conservatory student or teacher for that matter to play la campanella. my stand remains that most people overrate the technical requirements of this piece. i know a few friends who play this piece- they are mainly small time music students. not big names. i myself play la campanella- and i'm no yundi li.

you don't need like 10000 years of practise. a few years is all it takes to handle anything you want- that's as difficult as la campanella. just keep working, and may whoever your God is guide you to your goals. (: (disclaimer: although my nickname says islamey, i am not a follower of islam. "islamey" is the oriental fantasy written by balakirev (1869)."
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-islamey

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#1049322 - 06/26/06 04:07 AM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
Ishmael Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 255
 Quote:
Originally posted by islamey:
why does everyone feel they have to become a yundi li or something like him just to achieve la campanella? maybe i'm wrong but thats the feeling i'm getting from people. yea.

la campanella is challenging, but not impossibly difficult. you don't have to be a concert pianist or even a conservatory student or teacher for that matter to play la campanella. my stand remains that most people overrate the technical requirements of this piece. i know a few friends who play this piece- they are mainly small time music students. not big names. i myself play la campanella- and i'm no yundi li.

you don't need like 10000 years of practise. a few years is all it takes to handle anything you want- that's as difficult as la campanella. just keep working, and may whoever your God is guide you to your goals. (: (disclaimer: although my nickname says islamey, i am not a follower of islam. "islamey" is the oriental fantasy written by balakirev (1869)." [/b]
I think, Fairy implied that s/he wants to be a (concert?) pianist. So, it's not just about La Campanella.

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#1049323 - 06/26/06 05:26 AM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
pianarchist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 44
Loc: Australia
hey islamey, you mentioned earlier in the topic that you learnt 'la campanella' to performance standard in a about 1 month from when you first looked at the score. I was wondering how much time you spent on the piece each day, to get it learnt so quickly? Was it the only piece you were working on?
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#1049324 - 06/26/06 06:15 AM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
ranakor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 131
i still disagree that it's the same as math , yes your math concertist may or may not need as much time as another to learn math but most often even the greatest mathematicians have not been doing math 8 hours a day since their youth, the pianists there are to compete with have so the thing is it's not a you'll need a lot of time unless you're talented but it's you won't make it at all but if you're talented you may make it but it will STILL take lots of time

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#1049325 - 06/26/06 01:08 PM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
islamey Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Singapore
it was the primary piece i was working on. i guess i would be working on it for about 30-45 minutes each day on average..? the irritating thing is some parts are terribly difficult to POLISH. like the trills on the 3rd/5th finger with a descending melody on the thumb. and the repeated notes part (RH fingering 215 215 215...)

it's not terribly fast though. i know this guy. he's more of an acquaintance, but from what i know, he learnt liszt's dante sonata to a reasonable standard in 1 day (5 hours crash course)- which is a feat far more remarkable than my la campanella in 1 month. and another of my friend- he polished the 2nd and 3rd movement of saint saens 2nd piano concerto in 4 days.

sorry for my terrible ego, but just to trumpet another of my more recent achievements- schulz-evler's concert arabasques on themes from 'on the beautiful blue danube' by strauss- from starting on the score to playing in the concert in 5 weeks.

to pianofairy: if you want to be a concert pianist, why not? it's a career path less taken, why not try it out? you just have to brace yourself first for the hours you spend slogging in front of your keyboard, refining your scales, thirds, octaves, arpeggios, trills, tone and technique.. (: but if you think it's worthwhile then go ahead..!
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-islamey

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#1049326 - 06/26/06 01:14 PM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
islamey,

How long had you been playing piano before you took on La Campanella?

What sort of training had you had?

Had you played other pieces of comparable difficulty (or greater difficulty) before this one?


At a certain level, music that was once very hard actually isn't so hard anymore. "Difficulty" depends on one's abilities - if you're well prepared for it, and if you can play it, then of course it is "easy" or "not so hard." On the other hand, if you aren't "good enough" to tackle a certain piece, it is very difficult and even 'impossible', so it seems. So even for the same piece of music, it really depends who is playing it, and what experience/abilities/knowledge/understanding they have.
_________________________
Sam

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#1049327 - 06/26/06 01:17 PM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
rocky Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 1456
Loc: Louisville, KY
I can bang out a "mean" Mary Had a Little Lamb!!

::::oops...pardon the interruption....now back to your regular postings:::::

\:D
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When I reach the place I'm going, I will surely know my way.

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#1049328 - 06/27/06 05:24 AM Re: New here. La Campanella study group?
islamey Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Singapore
uh. about 11 years keke. well.. i TRIED playing alot of difficult pieces... slowly... don't rush into things. start practising the easier parts first! in a couple of years you'll be able to get nearer to there..!! and finally.. (.....) ..!! (: (:
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-islamey

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