Practice is there to pass things into the non-conscious (the habitual). Posture and Art can't become habitual. They are always in a state of flux. Therefore in these two respects you need be always vigilant.

Okay.

Actually, I disagree about posture. But perhaps you are implying something other than physically sitting at the piano.

They don't call you 'Lightening' John for nothing!

With posture tension is always trying to creep in - doesn't matter how long you've played or how well.

If something can be taught, it can become habitual. Posture can be taught, and art can as well. That's what we do every day as teachers, right? Certainly one can know how to do something but fail to do it, like play with good posture, or play artfully/musically. So are you saying these things always need to be in the forefront or they tend toward decay? I woudl say that about a great many things that we do in piano, which is why having a teacher or colleague who can listen to you can help keep you on the right track.

There I would have to disagree. Something that is constantly in flux can't be grasped.

And yet, I can grasp posture and I can grasp playing musical. So these things aren't constantly in flux, or your premise is off.

I was not aware that John has the power to make people and things weigh less.

Been a long day!

Tension comes out from anywhere and perhaps everywhere, as does art.

Tension *can* come from anywhere, but that can be controlled and part of one's habit in playing without excess/unnecessary tension.

Art does not come from everywhere, just as chaos does not create order. Art comes from purposeful actions of a pianist to create it. Students have to be taught both of the above...they do not happen on their own.

You never know where the art's going to come from nor the tension, that's why you need be vigilant.

That is my experience. One's posture, and the basic level of relaxation at the piano is, in my humble opinion, something that is learned as one learns a piece of music, and thus eventually becomes ingrained as part of that piece of music.

For example, there is a fast and intense piece of music I play solo with my band, (drummer only playing along), and that piece has a particularly hard section about in the middle.

It used to be that I would tense up in anticipation of that section. So I deliberately practiced it until it became one of the strongest sections. I also deliberately practiced a deep breath and general body tension release "sigh" to be done at the onset of that section. And I also added a sitting up straight re-posturing at that same moment.

Then, there was a stretch of several months when I did not play that piece, and, also forgot all about the deep breath, etc.

Lo and behold, then very next time I played it, I was surprised when I automatically took a deep breath, a release of tension, and sat up straight, at that exact moment in the piece.

Yes, but that didn't mean you could stop being vigilant for other tensions creeping in.

What I am finding out is that the full gamut of what is practiced is what is played. This includes not only the notes, the fingering, the dynamics, but also the posture, along with the level of tension or relaxation.

Sure there is always something else creeping in, but the what is practiced, if practiced correctly and sufficiently, is what rules.

Yes, odd bits of tension are always 'creeping in', though I'd say 'creeping up' on you.

I don't know if I agree with that. Once you know a piece really well and have worked out the tension issues, tension doesn't just start coming in randomly. Or if I'm playing an easy piece for me, why would tension come in?

Tension, IMO, is not a random occurrence. It is something that happens for a reason, usually in the form of faulty technique in a particular passage, or bad habits.

There we do have to disagree. Random no, but unforeseen yes. Matthay says somewhere that the performer needs to find sections in his music where he can test out for tension. I'll try and find the reference.

I also have to disagree. I didn't say "tension" is creeping in. I said "something else", which can lead to tension, but the tension should not come from the actual playing of the music.

Instead, if it comes at all, it should be from an outside source, which could include such things as an outside noise that startles, or noticing that a master player just walked in, or discovering that you are sitting on a tack, etc.

But if one has practiced sufficiently, which would properly include practicing in a relaxed manner, then those outside stimuli should not alter one's playing.

Using Morodine's example, if an accomplished pianist were performing in public a very simple piece, such as a one-note version of "Mary Had a Little Lamb", nothing short of a bomb exploding in the building should induce tension.

Extrapolate that concept upwards to more difficult pieces, and the principle remains the same.

Here is Matthay:
He is saying we must constantly test ourselves for tension - especially during performance.

The fact that we need to "keep on top of" posture is not related to whether we can practice it or not. I'm practicing it right now, as a matter of fact. But I think it's a valid point that my posture practice won't "stick" in quite the same way that learning a piece of music does. Except for Stravinsky.

The notion of being able or unable to practice Art is akin to the notion of being able or unable to practice Aerodynamics. The question of "practicing" an entire field of endeavour is unintelligible.

Swimming is a good example. The swimmer should 'practice' aerodynamics all the time they are in the water:


The problem is our definition of the word practice. If used as in 'practice my religion', then yes, a musician must practice posture all the time. If used as in 'practice makes perfect' then no. In other words you can't practice posture you can only practice it.

If posture couldn't be practiced, Alexander Technique wouldn't exist.

Practice as in 'practice one's religion' yes, not as in practice makes perfect. The practitioner aligns you - you've got to keep it that way.

The word "vigilant" appears many times in this topic. I would suggest not thinking in the terms of "vigilance" by definition.

What seems more appropriate to me is the word "awareness".

I think we have to be an aware practioner of the things contributing to our positive 1) be-ing and 2)do-ing, and we have to be an aware practioner of the things contributing to our negative and unwanted states of mind, the body at rest, and the body in motion.

Knowing what is unwanted and what the replacement will be is what we work to perfect with short term and long term awareness and evaluation.

The more we understand our better choices, the why and how of it, and make those changes deliberately, the more power we exert in creating the person we want and need to be in different situation on demand.

This suggests "acting" and "filling our spaces" with awareness about ourselves from within and also awareness of how we appear and how effectively we communicate to other people in our midst from what we say and from what we do.

Sometimes the "do" is just to be there in presence. This should not be a "nothingness" but a feeling of occupying the space with the capacity to come "alive and active" in an appropriate way (for us). Potential waiting to happen.

I say you can practice being and doing with good intentions.

Maybe we just haven't noticed the significance of ownership of our mind and body before. Maybe we think of it as just living.

Betty Patnude

That's rather a lot of 'knowing'. I think 'vigilant' is fine, it kinda makes it clear we're looking from the inside out.

I compared vigilant and aware to each other, KBK.

vigilant:
alertly watchful especially to avoid danger
to keep watch, stay awake
ever awake and alert; sleeplessly watchful
Vigilance is attested from 1570.


awareness:
cognisance, cognizance, consciousness, knowingness, sentience
informed; alert; knowledgeable; sophisticated
sense

As long as we are aware or vigilant, catch ourselves, and say affirmations to ourselves we should be able to make a dent in anything that we have set up as an item to be watching for.

It is with good intentions that we affect change. I think it requires more than a one time catch and the more positively we can state our intentions, goals for change, and our affirmations toward being it to our attention repeatedly, I think it's a "can-do" thing.

Being productive in behalf of yourself is practicing good mental health.

I'm getting good information about these kinds of things (it meets my needs anyway) in reading and using "Excuses Begone" by Dr. Wayne Dyer.

I don't think we are disagreeing, KBK, it's just our own different versions of how we say it.

No, we don't disagree. We just may be saying different things. Certainly I couldn't go with 'catch ourselves'. Tension comes from the outside, a person could easily be vigilant in the wrong direction.

May I add a passage from Dr. Wayne Dyer's "Excuses Begone!"?

"In his book "The Miracle of Mindfulness", which Thich Nhat Hanh advises us on this practice:

"The Sutra of Minfulness says, 'When walking, the practitioner must be conscious that he is walking. When sitting, the practitioner must be conscious that he is sitting. When lying down, the practitioner must be conscious that he is lying down'.
The mindfulness of the positions of one's body is not enough, however. We must be conscious of each breath, each movement, every thought and feeling, everything which has any relation to ourselves."

It is being said that consciousness is an each and every moment awareness. I believe it is being understood that there is no tension to this consciousness. And that it is pure objective observation that is the awareness. No "doing" to fix things in the conscious moment. Doing, adjusting, fixing is a later, following thought and is also done with mindfulness. I think this works best with a quiet, inner mind.

Betty Patnude

You mean, we can't practice posture in the sense that posture can never reach (and then automatically remain in) a state of "ultimate correctness"?

The list of things in piano playing that can never reach and then automatically remain in a state of ultimate correctness is quite long I would think. A few of them:

Posture
Listening/attention to the music
Breathing
Pedalling

If we say, yes, but those are all part of Art - well then, pretty much everything we do is Art, and we're back to square 1.

In fact, what CAN we practice, so that it will well and truly "stick"? I would think, for any given piece of music: the notes, a good fingering, and the correct rhythm.

'Listening/attention to the music' is the art. Breathing?? Pedalling comes under 'Listening/attention to the music'. Wouldn't know about square 1, where's that?