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#1307189 - 11/17/09 12:28 PM Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments?
Oblacone Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 344
Loc: Norway :D
Ok so I am having this concert in january, and my teacher said that i needed to make a shortened version of the piece, so i just cut half of it out.
And then recorded it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIKKb7DO14U
Any improvements i could make? Comments are much appreciated laugh
Oh and it isnt 100% perfect i know, i made a few mistakes.


Edited by Oblacone (11/17/09 12:33 PM)
_________________________
Kawai KG-2C - my 5'10" of sheer happiness and joy!

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#1307222 - 11/17/09 01:18 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: Oblacone]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19097
Loc: New York City
I thought your playing was very musical and showed careful thinking.

A few suggestions:
1. Sometimes the rhythm wasn't steady and I got the impression this wasn't due to some intentional rubato but either a technical or memory problem that needs to be worked on.

2. Some of the left hand fingering you use seems like it is either awkward or would make it hard to produce legato. Try and find an edition with good LH fingering suggestions.

3. LH a little too loud in general.

4. The first turn you do near the beginning of the piece in your shortened version seems rhythmically inoorrect.

Some recordings
Richter(note left hand fingering suggestions and balance between LH and RH):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iH1ONnXrdY&feature=related

Horowitz(I prefer this one):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIj8SeiKNEA&feature=fvw


Edited by pianoloverus (11/17/09 01:22 PM)

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#1307243 - 11/17/09 02:03 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: pianoloverus]
Oblacone Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 344
Loc: Norway :D
Well yeah it was just that one time i suddenly forgot what i was to do - Ill make a new recording smile and well my left hand fingering is actually all wrong..since i didn't learn it from sheet music.

Thanks for the suggestions laugh Its great to have this forum help out with performances laugh


Edited by Oblacone (11/17/09 02:03 PM)
_________________________
Kawai KG-2C - my 5'10" of sheer happiness and joy!

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#1307488 - 11/17/09 10:01 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: Oblacone]
PartyPianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 281
This is a great nocturne. I play this regularly as a "relax" piece. Will do the critical form analysis when I get in.
_________________________
You play it & I'll hum it, but currently rehearsing:

Bach WTC book 2 no 15 G major, no 20 A minor, no 22 Bb Minor
Mozart A minor Sonata K310
Mendelssohn Op 35 preludes and fuges
Busoni Carmen Fantasy
Rachmaninov Bb prelude OP 23 no 2
Lyapunov Humoreske Op 34
and others

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#1307576 - 11/18/09 01:28 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: PartyPianist]
Oblacone Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 344
Loc: Norway :D
You do that smile
_________________________
Kawai KG-2C - my 5'10" of sheer happiness and joy!

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#1307625 - 11/18/09 06:52 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: Oblacone]
PartyPianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 281
I need to listen to the whole thing, but here is my evaluation of the 1st 11 bars.

Too slow. Needs to be played 20% faster. The base is a rhythmic motif and not a "melodic interchange". Everything is in the right hand and the subtlety is in the right hand part play. I was impressed with bar 4. Lovely phrased group of 4 over triplet cross rhythm. But what happened in bar 2? Did Chopin score some poorly executed trill in place of the quavor slur? The dotted (semi quavor) versus triplet cross rhythm was completely missed in bar 3. Practice hands independently. I did not get the part play in bars 6-7, particularly the 2nd minim B in bar 7. Careful how you pedal this. It should hardly be pedaled at all otherwise you lose a lot of the intended detail. Yes I have re-listened to the whole right hand. You are going through the motions riding on the base harmonies. The base should be played p[iano] and the right hand harmonies "etched out" as expressed in the score. In bar 9 the diminuendo is for the base while the right hand crescendos finishing on a "spiked" octave G. Don't improvise a grace note. You are making a statement...we are moving to octaves. You also missed the slur on the couplet. Tell tale sign was the memory lapse joining bar 11. You need help!

Overall phrasing of the octaves and sensitivity was poor, while the base was played far too loud. Also the base triplet motif needs to be phrased better. I like to play it a [quasi] mezzo stacatto first note followed by a couplet slur. Ok, that's an exaggeration, but the closest I can get to the correct effect.

Not a good performance, but a valiant effort Oblacone. Much work needs to be done on this one. If you do not have a coach, time to find one. You have talent, but it will not be realised without firm guidance.
_________________________
You play it & I'll hum it, but currently rehearsing:

Bach WTC book 2 no 15 G major, no 20 A minor, no 22 Bb Minor
Mozart A minor Sonata K310
Mendelssohn Op 35 preludes and fuges
Busoni Carmen Fantasy
Rachmaninov Bb prelude OP 23 no 2
Lyapunov Humoreske Op 34
and others

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#1307674 - 11/18/09 09:48 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: PartyPianist]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 10747
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I enjoyed the passion you play with! You seem to love this piece and put a lot into it. smile

I agree with previous posters about the bass being too loud. Perhaps the positioning of your recording equipment had something to do it, but that is something you should double-check to make sure your LH isn't dominating.

I'd be curious to see what happens if you played this without pedal. It does require pedal, of course, but I noticed that you are relying upon the pedal to do legato for you in places where you certainly could play legato. This affects your touch and control. Moving 3rds int he RH, for example, could easily be played legato, yet you play them staccato and use the pedal to smooth it out for you. This gives a harshness to the tone.

At 0:15 you make the RH note staccato and accented. I'm not looking at the score, but I don't believe that is in there. It certainly looks dramatic, but it is unnecessary/distracting as it conflicts with the melodic line.

Lastly, I'll comment on your technique. It is more prominent in your LH, but overall your wrist seems a bit low and stiff, which forces you to raise the non-playing fingers off the keys, rather than simply pressing down the fingers used. Your non-playing fingers should not be tightly curved as they are. In fact, they should be as relaxed as possible. To correct this, you should play the LH alone, one note, and hold it. As you hold, relax all the non-playing fingers. Once they relax then move onto the next note and relax the non-playing fingers. Continue in this manner as slow as it needs to be. Gradually you will be able to increase the speed while maintaining this relaxation in between the notes.

I hope you take this criticism as it is meant - to help you progress further. You've certainly come a long way to be able to play this piece, and so it is not intended to diminish your efforts.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#1307685 - 11/18/09 10:00 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: PartyPianist]
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Oblacone,

My first suggestion is that you not abridge the piece in this fashion. It doesn't do the music justice, and it's not clear why your teacher would insist on it—unless the creation of a condensed arrangement is to serve as a musical assignment in and of itself. Otherwise, it's hard to see how it makes a difference whether the duration is 2-1/2 minutes or 4-1/2 minutes.

My next suggestion is that you study the score, both at and away from the piano, and play from the score at least occasionally even when a piece is memorized. It's the best insurance against errors creeping into your performance (whether they're wrong notes that "sound" right or incorrect dynamics and articulation) or making alterations of your own that you may not even be aware of.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#1307929 - 11/18/09 05:24 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: sotto voce]
Oblacone Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 344
Loc: Norway :D
Thanks a lot people, but if people are going to address certain points of the performance, could you please not use bars :P you see im not a very experienced pianist so if you do like Morodiene did that be great.

also I do use pedal a lot yes, again i just play pedal more than nesscesary and i tink my teacher know that but since Ive only played for almost a year she isn't super critical, yet she has told me to try and keep it down ( not the pedal down but how much i use the pedal, just incase that cam out unclear.)

So by saying it is hardly pedaled at all... does that mean i totally realease the pedal or do you mean i just pedal slightly like just a little bit.

And the lower bass - is partly my fault and partly the camera. the bass is more clear in this recording since im recording from the lower register but i also might play a bit too hard.

as far as technique goes... i can always work on it but fingering :S i dont think i can change it that much for this piece, since once ive got a fingering done it stays that way... but i will try.

give me one more week and ill see, i cant promise that all your critique will be improved on but i will atleas try to not play as hard with my LH and i will try to use pedal less.

Oh and 20% faster??? are you sure? I dont think I've heard that... ofcourse i can play it faster but i mean i find it nicer when slower.


Edited by Oblacone (11/18/09 05:27 PM)
_________________________
Kawai KG-2C - my 5'10" of sheer happiness and joy!

Top
#1308049 - 11/18/09 08:33 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: Oblacone]
PartyPianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 281
Yes, the opening needs to be a little faster. The middle section of the work should be played slower. Here you have the opportunity to demonstrate interaction between the two hands as both should be played with an even tone. Here the interplay between the hands is extremely important. However, you can relase your passion on bars 31 to 42. When you are ready to record it, that's what I would like to here. But please heed Chopin's advice to Liszt, "play as I write or not at all" (after he performed a paraphrase of Chopin's 16th B flat minor prelude 'presto con fuoco' - staggering as that must have been)
_________________________
You play it & I'll hum it, but currently rehearsing:

Bach WTC book 2 no 15 G major, no 20 A minor, no 22 Bb Minor
Mozart A minor Sonata K310
Mendelssohn Op 35 preludes and fuges
Busoni Carmen Fantasy
Rachmaninov Bb prelude OP 23 no 2
Lyapunov Humoreske Op 34
and others

Top
#1308080 - 11/18/09 09:24 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: Oblacone]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 10747
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Oblacone
Thanks a lot people, but if people are going to address certain points of the performance, could you please not use bars :P you see im not a very experienced pianist so if you do like Morodiene did that be great.

also I do use pedal a lot yes, again i just play pedal more than nesscesary and i tink my teacher know that but since Ive only played for almost a year she isn't super critical, yet she has told me to try and keep it down ( not the pedal down but how much i use the pedal, just incase that cam out unclear.)

So by saying it is hardly pedaled at all... does that mean i totally realease the pedal or do you mean i just pedal slightly like just a little bit.

And the lower bass - is partly my fault and partly the camera. the bass is more clear in this recording since im recording from the lower register but i also might play a bit too hard.

as far as technique goes... i can always work on it but fingering :S i dont think i can change it that much for this piece, since once ive got a fingering done it stays that way... but i will try.

give me one more week and ill see, i cant promise that all your critique will be improved on but i will atleas try to not play as hard with my LH and i will try to use pedal less.

Oh and 20% faster??? are you sure? I dont think I've heard that... ofcourse i can play it faster but i mean i find it nicer when slower.


This is excellent considering you've only been playing for about a year!

My comment about the pedal was that you are relying on it to play smoothly. You shoudl play smoothly (legato) *and* use the pedal. But I would try playing without the pedal and see how smooth you can make it sound. If you can do that, then add the pedal and continue to play that way.

I'm sure your teacher can guide you through that as well.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#1308203 - 11/19/09 12:58 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: Morodiene]
Oblacone Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 344
Loc: Norway :D
Ok smile Thanks a lot! i will work with your suggestions! laugh - Yes but unfortunately my teacher has ... THE SWINE FLU!!! so ... she didn't see through my performance as usual, so i thought you people on the forum could do it, and i see that i need to do this more often smile

So thanks everyone laugh
_________________________
Kawai KG-2C - my 5'10" of sheer happiness and joy!

Top

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