The problem with spinets, besides the small size, is the difficulty of working on the action. Now, with some old pianos so inexpensive, one might be able to find a console, or even a studio, buy it, move it, and regulate it for less than the price of doing just the work on the spinet. The results will be better, as well.

I can often make a big difference with some spinets just by taking out the lost motion, but that is only worthwhile on spinets for which it is easy to do. Acrosonics, except for the newer ones with the wire stickers, do not fall into that category. The ones with the wire stickers have other problems, like the wires coming out of the wippens on a hard blow.

Hey Bill,
I've just had a quick go around the assembled technicians on this here forum and managed to scrape enough cash together to send you to Transilvania ....whoops...I meant Pennsylvania....

We are going to come with you and video the transformation you will make to the aforesaid Wurlitzer Acrosonic Spinet.

The resulting video and commentary will be shown at National Convention and we all feel sure it will completely confirm your status amongst this venerable profession.

Your fee is whatever you need to cover your out of pocket expenses with some excess to cover your expertise. We have change for a dollar.

If the OP would like me to try and make that Steinway B go around corners a little faster I'd be up for that challenge...horses for courses I guess???

I am an Elitist....I like very good pianos....

Again guys, I am NOT trying to turn coal into diamond.

I have an acrosonic I got for free less than a year ago. I do not think it has been taken care of, nor anything done to it besides tuned.

so far, this has been the best response:



I REALIZE that I have a baldwin acrosonic spinet, that it is not a steinway B, nor will it ever be.

My question is will that improve the dynamic range of the piano significantly? Or should I just burn my piano and start saving for the Steinway B that I apparently want so badly?

It is hard to say whether that will improve the dynamic range or not. That depends on how the piano has aged.

If you believe that this is what you should explore, find a technician who is willing to do that sort of work and get a price for that much work. I suspect that it will be a lot more than you want to spend.

You know Bill, you pick the oddest fights. If the vertical action design were equal to or superior to the grand action there would be NO grand action today and the square grand system would be standard issue. Not so. The repetition level clears the jack before key release, even under a action with long wear and friction. Why argue with evolution??

Jeez guys, take a chill pill. Forum ranting is like road rage, just back off.

Nobody asked me...I'll kick in $50...if its a bumpy ride.


PianonaiP, I am pleased to hear that you understand your not going to get the type of performance out of the spinet that people expect from a fine grand. Some techs will shy away from jobs they are not familiar with and others will refuse to do the work if they feel your expectations won't be met
in the end. Both of these are good reasons and serve your best interest.

The problem with the best response quote is not in the technicalities or the process...its in the "how much". The difference between re-pinning a few items and most of them is HUGE...same goes for hammer alignment, key levelling ect...
If your hammers have already been carded heavily (sanded)you could be at the end of the line with that route too. Proper regulating is labour intensive and can multiply to the extent of 88, for everything.

Without seeing the condition of the piano it is ludicrous to throw even a ball park figure at you for costing this, let alone a relatively low one to build up your expectations. It would be like quoting you $10 to cut your grass unseen, and finding out that I need 4 extra hours to remove all the rocks hidden in it. Some techs do throw out a high end number that is a worst case scenario, four tunings (5-600$)worth of cost is not that number IMHO.

Contrary to the quote, ask the tech if they use any jigs or fixtures for any of the procedures. These are not essential but are used by many techs to facilitate more consistent results in a more efficient manner, that is why they are used in factories.

Since you have it tuned regularly maybe ask your tech to give you a quote and an opinion on how much it will improve the dynamics. Even doing one note as a sample could give you a better idea without the risk of commitment. I have done this on occasion with good results. If you like the feel, touch and response then its just a matter of getting all the other notes the same, less risk for you and the tech. Good Luck

Emmery, you nailed this answer...

All this fabulous FREE advice flowing around here....

And about having a whip 'round, sorry, I lied....

Perhaps you could donate the $50 to the piano tuners benevolent society up in your wonderful part of the world.

Respect the dodo for what it is. Don't expect it to fly.

Keep telling him it will never be a Steinway, guys. You are right about that. It will cost so much to do anything at all with his poor little piano that he may as well get rid of it. That is what we are all on here to say, isn't it? "I only do Steinways and I hate PTG and don't need to belong to it".

Don't join PTG!!! That would ruin everything! Leave the Acrosonics for guys like me. You guys are above and beyond that, way past anything anyone who belongs to PTG could offer. Stand your ground; maybe some day, the only pianos anyone will have will be Steinways and we would not need to even think about an Acrosonic.

Meanwhile, I will stay in Madison, WI and service the pianos in my clientele the way I see fit (like the Fazioli I tuned yesterday, the pipe organ effect sounded like it was in a cathedral).

"Contrary to the quote, ask the tech if they use any jigs or fixtures for any of the procedures. These are not essential but are used by many techs to facilitate more consistent results in a more efficient manner, that is why they are used in factories."

The technicians in the Steinway factory use a straight edge as I do and that is where I learned it.

PianonaiP:

Sorry that things got ugly when you were just looking for advice and understanding.

For a few hundred most tuners will be able to improve the performance of your piano. You and the tuner must discuss this after the tuner has looked at the piano. What your expectations are must be balanced with the condition of the piano.

Here are a couple things that might not be obvious. The dynamic range of a spinet is much smaller than a larger piano. It just cannot play as loud. Also, for the dynamics of a piano to be controllable the hammer pinning must be consistent. The expense of repining and the required regulation afterward can be a deciding factor. But then if the pining is loose, because of wear, then other things are also worn, and you are no longer looking at a few hundred dollars.

You said that your tuner will be coming by, great! If he cannot help you, there are other tuners in the area. He may be able to recommend one. I am also nearby and get to Billtown to see family now and then. I would be willing to drop by as a courtesy to another PianoWorld Member.

The following quotes are from Bill Bremmer on this subject..

"…If the vertical action (whether large upright, console or spinet) is precisely regulated, it will perform as well as (or nearly as well as) the finest grand..."

"….Nobody, including me, ever said they could turn an Acrosonic into a Steinway B. What I did say was that an Acrosonic can be regulated so that it performs as intended…"

The Acrosonic and other spinets were never intended to perform as well or even nearly as well as the finest grands. That is why they cost a fraction of the price, amongst other reasons.

"Any spinet action can be regulated so that the jack returns upon the slightest lift of the key."

Perhaps, but will it do it reliably and without problems down the road when the climate changes. Why is it that the factories don't do this or the dealers with their preps? Surely it would boost sales if you can put spinets in or near the same performance category as the finest grands.

"You already know everything there is to know about spinets and that is that they are no good."

This is a figment of your imagination. I never said such a thing.

"They all know everything there is to know and the most important thing they know is that an Acrosonic is useless as a musical instrument and they would not lift a finger to try to improve the performance of any of them."

Again, myself or nobody else in this thread made such a claim.

"However, what I know to be true is that if the verticals you have regulated skip on trills, they are not properly regulated, plain and simple."

What you know about my playing style, technique and capabilities is diddly. The spinet I played on was regulated by another respected technician in a piano school.
My comparison to a finely regulated RX-2 bears out that I required a piano with a higher performance envelope. Other musicians and teachers agreed from their own tests on the spinet.

It is quite common for teachers in the Royal Conservatory of Music to recommend to their students to get practice time on finely regulated grands for some pieces that exceed the grade 7-8 level. Control of dynamics and repetition issues are the main reason. This was one of the reasons I recommended discussing this in the teachers forum. My understanding was that the OP had issues with controlling the dynamics. From this I had assumed he was at or near this level of playing.

"They all know everything there is to know and the most important thing they know is that an Acrosonic is useless as a musical instrument and they would not lift a finger to try to improve the performance of any of them."

This is patently false. I work on spinets regularly, Acrosonics included.
I simply inform a customer if the cost of the work cannot be justified in the resale value or performance expectations of the instrument. My opinion on it has to do with my visual assessment and is intended to keep everyone happy in the end. On occasion with heirlooms and such, with their understanding (written), the customer may go ahead with it anyways for other reasons.

"The technician who would be willing and capable of rendering that service does not necessarily need to be an RPT or a member of PTG. But from the responses he got, I seem to be the lone wolf that says it can be done."

Not "seem to be" you ARE the only one so far. I have yet to see others, RPT or not, clambering to back you up about getting a spinet to perform "as (or nearly as well)as a the finest grand".

To the OP: I apologize for the direction this thread has gone, my postings had nothing to do with credentials or memberships ect... Bill seems to be the one who always has issues with this. If you do not play like Liberace, I suggest you ignore any anecdotes about him or others of his caliber. Some of these pro's could play standing up, blind, or with other restraints that would handcuff the average Joe piano player.

As I expected, you guys have largely proved my point. All the guy wants is some improved dynamic range and probably fast repetition. Everybody goes overboard with the worst case scenarios. I do agree with Jeff, however that the overall condition must be assessed first. It is really unlikely that there would be any loose pinning issues. If anything, there may be some sluggish centers rather than any which are too loose. It is also unlikely that there would be severe enough key bushing wear to be a factor.

Coincidentally, I did a full vertical regulation on an old, Gulbransen studio today. The complaint about it was much the same as the original poster's. When I finished, I could see how with a blow distance of 2 full inches, close let off, a checking distance of about 1/2 inch and after touch of about a penney's width, the jack never loses contact with the hammer butt. The feel is quite remarkable. The key will play again even though the key is lifted the slightest amount possible. I could do the fastest trills of which I am capable.

By the way, I used a straight edge to level the keys, using the blind technique. Lifting keys upward, I could tell what kind of punching I needed more by the sound it makes than by looking. I never measured anything. I was only curious to know what the blow distance was when I finished. I also measured what the checking distance was after I had it all done and found it to be exactly 1/2 inch. I did the after touch entirely by feel and sight of where the jack was on a fully depressed key.

As for dynamics, the piano is capable of a very wide range. It will play at the slightest, softest touch and will grow in volume with each increment of force to very loud. No, it does not sound like a Steinway and it does not compare to the kind of very subtle nuances that a fine grand has but what it does do is function the way any piano is intended to function and that is what the original poster wanted to know: is that possible?

I say it is and it should not cost an arm and a leg to get it that way.

Peter, I am glad you are happy with what you do but frankly, I wouldn't have your job if it were offered to me. I don't believe that whoever hires you could ever offer me enough money to take the job. I happen to like what I do too and I happen to like where I live. I grew up in Los Angeles but the only reason I ever go there now is to visit family (and to tune a few very discriminating customer's fine grands). I tune my family's pianos as gifts to them: a Steinway, a Baldwin, A Kawai and a Kimball. It really doesn't impress me at all that you continue to gloat about being a Steinway only guy. If I wanted to do what you do, I could have done it long ago and could do it now but I seriously am not interested.

Monday afternoon, I tuned Fazioli, (after tuning a fine Baldwin and Kawai grand in the morning and fixing a the pedal adjustments that would not stay properly adjusted on a Schumann grand). Tuesday morning, I tuned a restored Hallet-Davis square grand. I got the "pipe organ" effect on all. The square grand is being used by school children from pre-teen to high school age to study both voice and piano. It is THEIR piano and I am the "lone wolf" in the area who can even handle it. Every other technician they called, including RPT's only insulted them and told them it was junk.

In the afternoon after the square grand, I tuned and did minor regulation on an Everett console that hadn't been serviced in years. The lady was delighted. I then went downtown to buy tickets for the symphony orchestra concert this weekend. Then, I went to dinner at a campus residence where only French is spoken and has a nice Steinway model L which I have cared for for 30 years. I tuned it in early September and will tune, voice and touch up regulate it again on December 11 for their annual Christmas party as I have done each year since 1979. A fine, local pianist with a BA and Masters degree in piano performance will play. He is also my customer with a fine Yamaha C7 and sends me many referrals.

This morning, I went to help a poor guy who broke the A1 string on a Baldwin console. I showed him how to splice a string with size 22 core wire. When I finished, he looked at the knot and called it a "work of art". I did not charge him a dime. He's working up to the point when he can afford to join PTG. Then, I went on to tune and regulate the old Gulbransen studio. I did charge for that and got a handsome fee, a very happy customer and a 10 year old kid that said, "Wow!" I am not interested in being an elitist. Thank you.

PianonaiP, I recommend you call Richard Bittinger RPT at 717-624-7133. I don't know whether you are in his service area or not and he is quite elderly now, so I don't know how much work he does any more. However, he is quite well versed on exactly what you need done for the instrument and surely can give a referral to the right person for you.

You might mention some of the details about regulation to which I referred: maximum blow distance, minimum let-off, minimum checking distance and minimum after touch. Ask him specifically whether this will improve the dynamic range. (It will). It will also improve repetition speed and will give you a more positive feel that you are in control of the hammer throughout its range of motion.

Ask him specifically if he knows about Jack Wyatt's "Turbo" regulation for spinet pianos and whether he agrees with and endorses that concept.

By the way, I once prepared one of those Acrosonic models that many on here would scoff at for the local Opera company (who is known for very high caliber productions). It was a performance of The Barber of Seville. The conductor told me he would prefer to have a fortepiano rather than a harpsichord because in Rossini's time, that is what would have been used. There were two problems with that idea: The pianist who could most effectively perform the recitatives was not a skilled fortepianist and getting such an instrument in the orchestra pit and keeping it properly tuned was more than the company could handle.

I told the conductor I had an idea: We took the Acrosonic console which was really a spinet sized piano with a compressed direct blow action. I gave it a full regulation and voiced the hammers using a very thin hardening solution to create the "skin" type effect that fortepiano hammers have. I then used muting strips to provide two string unisons for each note. The mutes and special voicing produced a very realistic sounding fortepiano like effect.

I tuned the piano in the Rameau-Rousseau-Hall 18th Century Modified Meantone Temperament from Owen Jorgensen's book: Handbook for Tuning the Equal Beating Temperaments for Harpsichords and Fortepianos. The piano fit in the small orchestra pit, the pianist could easily see over it to play the recitatives for the singers. The sound, especially as it came over the sound system was what anyone would have thought was a true fortepiano.

Afterward, the special voicing was easily changed back to a normal voicing for the practice room use that the piano usually serves and still does today. Somehow, I have always thought in terms of what I could do rather than what can't be done. I have always looked for the good properties of any piano rather than immediately dismissing them as useless junk.