Thanks for posting that Devane - very interesting. I've finally gotten 19/4 to the point where it is mostly memorized and I am trying to polish it - making final decisions on how much pedal to use, the phrasing, the dynamic changes, and so forth.

Sam

No problem. Its a pity they only spend a few minutes on each piece but still you get a few tips.

Thanks for the links Devane. What is everyone looking at for a tempo? My edition says quarter note for 72. Good points on bringing out the melody over the chords. I still need some work on that.

Here's my interpretation. A couple of kludgey bits, but reasonable. I'd play it in front of friends. Tempo is around 70 for the quarter.

Mendelssohn, op. 19, no. 4

great idea for a thread. I'd like to join in. I have been working on op85 no.2 for a few days and I would like to eventually have this piece memorised and up to performance. I spend too much time reading these days and not enough on completing. So I would like to join you guys in committing to this piece so that I don't abandon it after a few short efforts.

But since this is Mendelssohn appreciation, I'll say that I have made exciting discoveries to this piece already, the harmony is beautiful - definitely worth the investigation. I think I'm going to enjoy this journey. The piece is also called The Adieu.

canonie

I'd like to try and join you Canonie, but I think it might be a bit above my level with the tempo. I'll give it a go the next week and see if it fits my brain.

Thanks for the reply, Shoes
You are already helping my motivation, I will do a session right now and post how far I get. So far i've read through about 3 times and sorted fingering, I have a loose and unstable memory of 1st 10 bars and physical familiarity with the next 12.

I see a teacher about 4 times a year to keep me developing, and to make sure I continue to be useful to the beginners I teach ! This teacher showed me this piece and I fell for it for sure. Not making any promises about speed tho, adult restarter excuses apply here.
right - I'm off to work on it
just after this nice cup of tea...

That's great Shoes. Much faster than I can play it. The Schirmer edition suggests quarter note = 84. In my opinion that is too fast.

Here's my version of 19/4:

Mendelssohn 19/4

One hesitation and one bobble near the end. And my bench creaks.

I can do my own critical critique:
- too slow.
- thumbs are too loud.
- pedal is awkward in spots.

But I am pleased with the dynamics - I've learned to exaggerate them so they come through in a recording.

There's a month until the next ABF recital? Maybe I can speed it up some before then.

Sam

I love 85/2 also. "agitato". But it's too fast for me right now. I'm also working on 102/6, another one with great harmonies. I think it is probably easier that 19/4.

I have a long list of he Songs Without Words that I would like to do some day.

Sam

I can't wait to get home and listen to it Sam. I would agree that 84 is too fast. I think it would be less lyrical at 84. I've got a recording at about 72 and it's quite nice. I find too slow really does a disservice to the intro and ending sixteenth note passages. They rarely sound light like they should be (in my mind) below about the mid-sixties.

I'm hoping for op. 19, no. 2 for the recital, but I might fall back on a little Schumann from op. 15 to bail me out. I don't have as much time as I used to for bringing things up to a presentable stage for me for the recital.

Next on my list for Songs Without Words are:
op. 19, no.2, no. 1
op. 53 no. 5
and maybe op. 85, no. 2 as suggested by Canonie

Has anyone tried Consolation? It's supposed to be one of the easiest, but I found the voicing just unnatural to me. I can't sing it to save my life and my fingers can't find the notes at all, which is weird. Do our brains work in key signatures?

I just had a listen to Consolation. I've never played it, but recognise the piece. I'm guessing that there are just too many sharps! On the up side if you spend time with lots of sharps it's much easier the next piece you try in similar key. I'm trying to do a bit of sharp-loading at the moment (bit like carbo-loading but less fun).
So in answer to your question I reckon our brains definitely work in key signatures. Mine does.

I bet if you listened to it a lot while followingthe score it would help, also often a good idea to play the scale and the basic chords of the key before you begin reading the piece.

And I did make some progress on 85 no2. Have loosely memorised 14 bars. All slow, but feeling the touches and phrasing - bit of a work out for 4 and 5 of the RH.

Nice Sam. I'd let yourself be more liberal with the tempo coming out of the dim into the ritard at bars 24-25. It seemed a bit rigid there. I liked the dynamics moving from mf to p in bars 5-8. Although I'm not sure I sensed much difference volume-wise between the mf and f in bars 5 and bars 9. Just pull back bar 5 a bit and it would be better.

And yeah, watch the heavy thumb, but I don't think that that was actually that bad. Just a lighter overall touch maybe. Then maybe that's the idea you're getting out of Confidence. Curse those interpreted words.

I liked the bench creaking.

Only just got around to listening to your 19/4 listening right now actually. I am so impressed. I am quite new on the forum and I had thought it was populated with beginners - you sound very far from beginning The flow of dynamics is most engaging, nice work! Yes I can hear what you say about the thumb so look forward to hearing the light thumb version when you work this out.
Well I'm off to do some useful and focused practise now. And I will gradually listen to some more recordings from posters on this thread, but one at a time is nice (spread out the enjoyment).

canonie

Thanks Shoes and Canonie for your comments. I worked on 19/4 last night with the metronome, speeding it up one click at a time. That's going to take a while - but it's enjoyable work.

Is there any interest in a list of the Songs Without Words and their graded difficulty level? I compiled a list from the Piano World difficulty list and could post it in this thread. It's pretty subjective, but it might be of use to have that info in one spot for Mendelssohn fans.

Sam

^Do it. You can check the graded pieces list link in my signature for other options. But I could add in other boards as well. In my list you'll notice that the RCM and BC boards go from grade 1 to 10 while ABRSM only goes to 8 (to my knowledge) before the post grade exams. Generally this difference translates by a two grades for most pieces (i.e. grade 8 RCM = grade 6 RCM), although your mileage may vary.

Mendelssohn’s Songs Without Words

Tempo and key information from the Wikipedia entry.
Grades are indicated at the end of each line, with the source of the grade in parentheses. The sources:
• ABRSM: American Board (United States)
• RCM: Royal Conservatory of Music (Canada)
• BC: British Columbia Conservatory of Music (Canada)
• PDF: PianoWorld PDF file of unknown origin

Op. 19 (1829-1830)
• 1 Andante con moto in E major #8(PDF) #9(BC)
• 2 Andante espressivo in A minor #6(PDF)
• 3 Molto allegro e vivace in A major ("Hunting Song") #7(PDF)
• 4 Moderato in A major #6(PDF) #6(BC)
• 5 Poco agitato in F-sharp minor #8(PDF)
• 6 Andante sostenuto in G minor ("Venezianisches Gondellied" [Venetian Boat Song] No. 1) #6(PDF)

Op. 30 (1833-1834)
• 1 Andante espressivo in E-flat major #7(PDF)
• 2 Allegro di molto in B-flat minor #7(PDF)
• 3 Adagio non troppo in E major #5(PDF) #7(BC)
• 4 Agitato e con fuoco in B minor #8(PDF)
• 5 Andante grazioso in D major #8(PDF) #10(BC)
• 6 Allegretto tranquillo in F-sharp minor ("Venezianisches Gondellied" or Venetian Boat Song No. 2) #6(PDF) #7(BC)

Op. 38 (1836-1837)
• 1 Con moto in E-flat major #8(PDF)
• 2 Allegro non troppo in C minor #8(PDF) #9(BC) #10(BC)
• 3 Presto e molto vivace in E major #8(PDF)
• 4 Andante in A major #6(PDF)
• 5 Agitato in A minor #8(PDF)
• 6 Andante con moto in A-flat major ("Duetto") #8(PDF) #9(BC)

Op. 53 (1839-1841)
• 1 Andante con moto in A-flat major #7(PDF)
• 2 Allegro non troppo in E-flat major #6(PDF)
• 3 Presto agitato in G minor #7(PDF)
• 4 Adagio in F major #6(PDF)
• 5 Allegro con fuoco in A minor ("Volkslied") #6(PDF)
• 6 Molto Allegro vivace in A major #8(PDF)

Op. 62 (1842-1844)
• 1 Andante espressivo in G major #6(PDF) #7(ABRSM)
• 2 Allegro con fuoco in B-flat major #6(PDF)
• 3 Andante maestoso in E minor ("Trauermarsch") #6(PDF)
• 4 Allegro con anima in G major #6(PDF)
• 5 Andante con moto in A minor ("Venezianisches Gondellied" or Venetian Boat Song No. 3) #7(PDF)
• 6 Allegretto grazioso in A major ("Frühlingslied" or "Spring Song") #7(PDF)

Op. 67 (1843-1845)
• 1 Andante in E-flat major #7(PDF)
• 2 Allegro leggiero in F-sharp minor #7(PDF)
• 3 Andante tranquillo in B-flat major #6(PDF)
• 4 Presto in C major ("Spinnerlied") #8(PDF) #10(BC)
• 5 Moderato in B minor #6(PDF)
• 6 Allegro non troppo in E major #7(PDF)

Op. 85 (1834-1845)
• 1 Andante espressivo in F major #6(PDF) #9(BC)
• 2 Allegro agitato in A minor #6(PDF)
• 3 Presto in E-flat major #7(PDF)
• 4 Andante sostenuto in D major #7(PDF)
• 5 Allegretto in A major #6(PDF)
• 6 Allegretto con moto in B-flat major #7(PDF)

Op. 102 (1842-1845)
• 1 Andante un poco agitato in E minor #8(PDF)
• 2 Adagio in D major #6(PDF)
• 3 Presto in C major #7(PDF) #9(BC)
• 4 Un poco agitato, ma andante in G minor #6(PDF) #10(BC)
• 5 Allegro vivace in A major ("Kinderstück") #6(PDF)
• 6 Andante in C major #5(PDF)

Send me a PM for edits and changes.

Sam

Nice Sam. I think those ratings are pretty reasonable as I'd rate myself around grade 5-6 from the PDF file and grade 7-8 in the BC/RCM range.

My edition of the Songs Without Words also lists, numbers in progressive order of difficulty, the following:

Intermediate
9,4,6,12,14,48,25,28,33,19,35

Late Intermediate
37,41,13,29,46,45,22,20,1,38,7,42

Early Advanced
36,47,16,26,30,40,3,10,27,31,5,39

Advanced
23,8,44,11,34,43,32,15,18,17,21,24

Just count down Sam Smith's list for the numbers.

I did an interesting survey of tempos in 19/4 last night by using the itunes preview and youtube recordings and a metronome program that allowed me to set the tempo by clicking on the beats. On itunes you just get 30 seconds, and they often did not include the beginning, which is the section I am interested in for picking a tempo, so the results are not very accurate. But they are interesting.

Anyway, here are the (totally unscientific) results:

Peter Nagy - 60-64, lots of rubato
Daniel Barenboim - 62-66, lots of rubato
Renate Schorler - 84-90, lots of rubato
Daniel Gortier - 70-74, lots of rubato
Livia Rev - 76-80, slows down to 58-64 after intro, lots of rubato
Barbara Meister - 60-70, lots of rubato
Ilse von Alpenheim - 50-60, lots of rubato

The Nagy recording is the one that I own and that I have listened to over and over, so it has prejudiced me in favor of his tempo choices.

And there are some interesting recordings of arrangements of the Songs w/o words out there in the wilds of the internets - cello, violin, guitar, clarinet, and so on.

Sam

Here's my "final" recording of the Song Without Words Op. 19/4, the same one that I submitted to the ABF recital #16.

Song Without Words Op. 19/4

If anyone else has recordings of Mendelssohn's music, let's post them here so we can keep track of them. They can be works in progress as well as complete.

I'm working now on 102/6. When I get it to a point where it's presentable I'll post a recording for critique.

Sam

Hi everyone,

I've only recently discovered Mendelssohn's mastery and I very much admire his work. I aspire to play more as I get more experience under my belt.

Here are 2 "works in progress" video recordings testing out my new Flip HD camera.

Op. 30 #3 Consolation
Op. 19 #4 Moderato


Cheers,
Ode2Joy

Sam,

Thank you very much for this list. It's very nice of you to do this for us.

Who is you avatar, by the way? It looks like Charles Ives.

Both of these are very nice. I love the 30/3, especially the alteration in the phrases between major and minor. Your recordings are great, with excellent dynamics.

Sam

Yes, that's a closeup of the Charles Ives US postage stamp. I can't play his piano sonata though - it's way beyond my abilities. I admire him because he was essentially an amateur musician, doing his own thing.

Sam

I really enjoyed the recordings Ode2Joy. Thanks for sharing those. Very nice dynamics and really controlled playing.

Thanks HomeInMyShoes and Sam for listening.

@Sam: And especially for creating and posting the graded Songs Without Words list. I'll be asking for some Mendelssohn music for Christmas, and having a list like that is helpful so I have something that is reachable and not too far above my head.

^Anything that's way over my head becomes stuff I struggle through every now and then to see how bits and pieces of technique are improving and for sight reading.

I looked at op. 53 no. 5 (Folk Song) on Tuesday night again. It's a disaster, but not as bad a disaster as previously. And the descending double triplets are just so fun. Now those doubled octave chords on the last page.

I know this is OT, but in my youth I made a pilgrimage to Danbury with some friends for the Ives Centennial Celebration. We visited his house, his and Harmony Ives' graves, and the day ended with a performance of his music by the American Symphony with Michael Tilson Thomas and Leonard Bernstein.

A great day.

^That's completely on topeic. Did you happen to have any old photos of the home you could post?

We couldn't go inside, and the city had moved the house to a big empty lot by a pond and had it facing away from the road. (I have no idea why.) I remember that we did take pictures, but they're just of this old yellow house that seems to be staring forlornly at a pond in an empty lot. Rather depressing, really.

I should do some research to see if they ever did anything more with the house and the property.

On the way to Danbury, we stopped at Yale and met with John Kirkpatrick and talked about Ives' piano works. He was very nice and accommodating. (He always faced towards us, and not once did he stare at a pond.)

Well, this attempt didn't go nearly as well as hoped. A couple of real ugly flubs in spots that don't warrant flubs.

Anyway I would like some feedback on tempo, dynamics, overall interpretation. It's a work in progress needing some more work.

Currently I'm working on: op. 19 nos. 2 and 4; op. 30 no. 6; and I started a bit of op. 53 no. 5.

Mendelssohn, op. 19 no. 2.

I can already hear quite a few melody issues. I think I'm going to (pun)regret posting this in this state.