Tuning on a stage is one thing. Putting a recording on the Internet for all time is something else (did your stage tuning make it to the concert DVD? :-). Yes, the original post had a recording of the tuner at work. I didn't listen to the whole thing.

Then, the poster asked for feedback from professional tuners, without indicating what the problem was. The premise was creepy.

I'm surprised in general how many people come to this international forum with issues that should be one-on-one between the customer and the person who did the work. Talk to your own tuner first, please! I often follow up with new customers to solicit feedback. I don't bite! :-) I want to know what you think about my work.

--Cy--

I once arrived at a home in our area, and the client was a delightfull Japanese woman. She politely asked me in very broken English if she could film me with her computer!...She walked around behind me as I worked, and then I heard her talking with somebody via computer...she pointed the screen at me, and a very friendly person from Japan started speaking with me, as translator! It was a gas to communicate this way with my customer-using an international computer connection to translate our pricing, what the piano needed etc etc.

But...she asked me politely. And, her intent was never in question. There was no sneaky recording tactics...and as a result, we all understood exactly what was happening.

In reflecting on this post, I'm really of the opinion that, although the OP's intentions may have been well meaning, its wrong to misrepresent. If I go to somebody's house, I am not automatically similarily consenting to filming, or any other use of my "image" or "likeness" for any unintended purposes.

We must ask ourselves this question: If the OP was selling, or profiting, by this act, would that change the nature of this question in any way? IF so, I think we have our answer. The publication of our image, work, or likeness should be accompanied by our consent. Not, as is the case here, collected as "evidence" and placed before the masses.

My tuning fee does not include my consent to do whatever you wish with my likeness, work product, or image. You own the piano, not my publishing rights.

Just my 2 Cents...fwiw.

But, this conversation is VERY interesting and I thank the OP for bringing us the opportunity to consider it. No harm was done, I am sure, to anybody's reputation in this go-around.

RPD

Well, look at this from another angle.

If I have my house painted and someone asks who did it, should I say "Sorry, I do not have permission from the painter." Or if I am not sure if the job was done correctly, is there a problem with taking pictures of my house with the paint job I paid for and asking other professional painters what they think of it?

But if I take pictures of the person while painting the house without their knowledge or consent, that is a different story.

So my question is whether the recording is of the tuner playing or the owner playing. If it is the tuner, it should be removed from the internet. The tuner was paid to tune, not perform.

I think you've hit on it Jeff. The tuning, of course, is the client's.

If the process being used to arrive at that tuning was taped secretly, my question to everybody is: Is the process we use proprietary information? Put another way- Could a case (legal or moral) be made for our work process itself as a personal business asset, if our process is collected without our consent?

Couldn't the WAY we work constitute proprietary information? Certainly, tuners and technicians since pianos were invented sometimes carefully guard their methods and means. (whether this is healthy is another topic!)

But, as I mentioned above (or meant to, if I didn't)...this is more just point-of- interest banter, rather than any significant issue I have with the OP. A close friend brought it to my attention off forum that I might be looking at this too legalistically...and he's probably right.

FWIW, I'm not offended by anybody here, or any opinions...and hope my words don't offend...they're not meant to. Clearly, this topic offers more than one way to reasonably look at the situation.

RPD

Here’s something that actually happened to me over thirty years ago:

A woman had me tune her piano. The next day she called and said that her father used to tune pianos and wanted her to have me tune her piano so that her father could decide if I knew what I was doing. He decided that I did know what I was doing and wanted me to call him. I did and I received a bit of mentoring and bought some used tools.

It would have been a different story if her father was secretly hiding in a closet listening to me tune.

But I am not worried about anyone figuring out just how I make my tunings sound like they do. They can't see inside my mouth and figure out how I hold my tongue.

Not really without having a wide margin of error.

Tuners use different methods to get to their intended results and may base their criticism on their own preferences. This would be unfair because they could be all valid methods to achieve a good tuning.

The "in tuneness" of the piano before the tech started, plays a big part in the time needed, this is missing and can only be assumed. The time aspect should have been left out for this reason; some tuners can accomplish in under an hour what others take twice as long to do. General tunings of this sort are charged by the job, not the time, so this should not be an issue unless your dealing with a time constraint of your own and the tuning takes too long.

The end result of the tuning (recording)would be the only thing necessary in your case Tweedpipe. Even that has its limitations since it is hard to properly record a piano for this purpose.

Also remember that tuners have different tastes and even top level ones can disagree amongst each other as to the appropriateness of styles and methods and even end results.

There is no way for any of us to know how many strings give false beats or were out of tune because of poor unison tuning. Only the tuner knows this. Same goes for the scaling of the piano and how well it lends itself to a more pleasant sounding tuning. Issues of stability like loose tuning pins cannot be judged by a listener/critic.

The only way to fairly assess a tuning is comparatively to another tuning on the same piano, and even then, bias of taste and different levels of competence would play a small part.

This is why organizations and training schools use a "master" tuning for comparison on tests. They also use several judges to collaboratively reach consensus (both the master tuning and the test)and a set of defined boundaries.

'Exactly. It seemed like an example of using the technology without thinking things through carefully, and the premise smacked of slightly shady ethics.

Of course you realize that someone is gonna' x-ray your head now while you tune to find out your secret.

I'm still not worried. It doesn't work unless certain teeth are missing. (DAMHIK)

But that brings up RPD's point. A tuning method could be proprietary, like a manufacturing process. It is up to the one with the secret to keep it, not everyone else in the world to not look or listen. But if a law is violated in order to obtain the secret, that’s another story. In my case I just need to keep my mouth shut.-- DON’T SAY IT --

This is why I like the tuner I've had so far. Despite my piano being "junk" to most people he gives it the attention and respect it deserves for still being usable after 100 years.

RDP: without even scrolling through the posts, why would he need a permission to play his piano, and record it? This is not copyright...

[added 03.35 GMT +3:00]: and reading through the replies to the original post, I'm even more amazed.

I do not understand your concerns at all. Why, if somebody hires me to tune their piano, would they have to ask for my permission to play, and record, their piano? That sounds ridiculous to me. Copyright in absurdum.

[added 03.35 GMT +3:45]: eh...? this is you (original poster) playing the piano, or your tuner? I naturally thought you were recording yourself. If you recorded your tuner, however, you should a) tell him that you intend to go public, b) ask for his permission.

The moment he packs up and leaves your piano, you shouldn't have to ask anybody for any kind of permission to record you own piano playing.

/pati

Patrick, the original poster recorded his tuners "tuning" process, then posted it asking for a critique.

You know what friends? I'm afraid this sort of thing probably goes on a lot these days. There are a lot of sneaky people in the world and technology in the wrong hands can be very dangerous. It does give me the creeps.