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#1309532 - 11/20/09 11:20 PM
exercise = stamina?
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Full Member
Registered: 05/25/09
Posts: 294
Loc: Hacienda Heights, CA
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I was playing a difficult piece yesterday, and it seemed like my arm was getting tired, and it was getting stronger!
Instead of letting it do its job, I decided to do dozens of push-ups yesterday, and today, I feel like I have improved a lot. Has anyone else done this before? Exercise for better technique?
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#1309540 - 11/20/09 11:39 PM
Re: exercise = stamina?
[Re: Philip Lu]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 2881
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Brisk exercise often helps piano playing; I assume this is related to general health and energy, not arm strength or anything like that.
Physical stamina (in other words, having lots of energy and not getting tired and worn down easily) is important in piano playing. Pure strength as seen in weight lifting competitions seems much less useful by comparison.
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#1309705 - 11/21/09 10:50 AM
Re: exercise = stamina?
[Re: Morodiene]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 2881
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There is absolutely no need for strong arms at the piano, or for any kind of muscle strength exercises. I tend towards being flabby, so I need to keep my activity level up, heart rate and blood flow going, and so on - but all the short slim people who are excellent pianists, and the fact that six-foot-six men with bulging arms do not magically play better than the rest of us, are good examples to keep in mind.
If a person's arms were especially weakened due to some physical disorder or a complete lack of activity, that would be different. But for the rest of us, just general "keeping in shape" without special exercise is quite enough.
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(I'm a piano teacher.)
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#1309727 - 11/21/09 11:28 AM
Re: exercise = stamina?
[Re: david_a]
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Full Member
Registered: 05/25/09
Posts: 294
Loc: Hacienda Heights, CA
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While I'm not getting bulky muscles, and have no intentions to, I disagree with david a about "absolutely no need". My forearm was getting used so much that it was getting tired. I think it might just have been some energy or the placebo effect, though I think exercise kicks in a lot quicker than 3 days. Mental exercise, if I do them for half an hour the night before, I could feel it the day after, and the improvements are staggering, as I do them night by night.
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"Nie Dam Sie!"
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#1309785 - 11/21/09 01:19 PM
Re: exercise = stamina?
[Re: Philip Lu]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 607
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I'm a passionate enjoyer of exercise - especially weightlifting and running. I'm not musclebound, but I'm certainly a lot stronger than the average person. However, I don't think my exercising has had any major direct effect on my piano playing. I actively avoid doing any forearm weightlifting, because I find that the soreness that results hampers my playing speed and coordination for a day or so. I also find that the energy and mental reserve that I consume for working out during a solid block of time are the same reserves that I use for practicing. Thus, if I give myself a really challenging workout on a given day, I'm unlikely also to get in a very productive piano session that day.
I will say that my weightlifting MAY give me some small advantage in playing big works with lots of loud big chords. But mostly, I find that when I work out regularly, I simply feel much better about myself. My body feels more responsive and ready to do most anything, my mind feels sharper, and I'm generally in more cheerful spirits. That's the indirect way I think exercise helps me very much in piano, and I suspect that's what you were experiencing during your practice session and post-practice pushups:)
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Currently Studying: Bach - French Suite No. 5; Beethoven - 32 Variations WoO. 80, Pastoral Sonata; Liszt - Mazeppa; Chopin - Mazurka Op. 17 No. 4, Nocturne Op. 27 No. 1, Ballade No. 1
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#1309800 - 11/21/09 01:42 PM
Re: exercise = stamina?
[Re: Philip Lu]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
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though I think exercise kicks in a lot quicker than 3 days. The extent of muscle damage can be correlated with levels of creatine kinase in the blood. In healthy muscle tissue, creatine kinase is an enzyme responsible for converting ADP to ATP. However, when muscle tissue is damaged, the cell membranes are destroyed and creatine kinase leaks out of the muscle cells. Blood levels of creatine kinase are highest five days following exercise. This evidence implies that muscle tissue is not damaged immediately following injury, but rather during the repair process.
Muscle precursor cells, or satellite cells, are responsible for muscle tissue regeneration that may take days to weeks to complete. From: http://www.bookrags.com/research/muscle-tissue-damage-repair-and-reg-wap/
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#1309922 - 11/21/09 04:55 PM
Re: exercise = stamina?
[Re: Philip Lu]
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5000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5050
Loc: Down Under
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My forearm was getting used so much that it was getting tired. It could have been getting tired because you were using the wrong technique.
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#1310307 - 11/22/09 10:39 AM
Re: exercise = stamina?
[Re: currawong]
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Full Member
Registered: 09/06/09
Posts: 82
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I am not sure if physical exercise can built stamina for piano, but intense practicing of piano (especially difficult passages) can certainly build stamina for your future playing.
Edited by ConcertEtudes (11/22/09 10:41 AM)
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#1310455 - 11/22/09 02:42 PM
Re: exercise = stamina?
[Re: ConcertEtudes]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 2881
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There are people who would be universally and obviously considered "in bad shape" - who have difficulty with daily routine such as climbing stairs, walking to a destination, and so on. For a person in that kind of situation, some good exercise would most certainly improve their piano playing, along with (clearly) the rest of their life. The additional energy such a person would have after pursuing exercise for a few weeks or months could conceivably even improve their technical abilities, because they could move their arms faster, didn't feel so tired, etc.
People who are already in good shape by the standards of normal life will of course never see such dramatic results, but ordinary aerobic exercise at a moderate level can't be bad except in abnormal cases such as pre-existing injury or other similar things.
I'm not in terrible shape, and I have no injury concerns; but I'm slow, I spend a lot of the day sitting down, and would be better off if I lost 20 pounds or more. For a guy like me, who's in between the two categories outlined above, exercise is only going to be a benefit - to everything in life, piano playing included. I think there are thousands of pianists around the world who are not so different from me.
Special exercises that might directly affect the playing mechanism would have to be approached carefully or not at all - for example, see MarkH's comment about forearm weight-lifting being a potential problem for pianists.
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#1310491 - 11/22/09 04:07 PM
Re: exercise = stamina?
[Re: david_a]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
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I play basketball alot, 3-4 times a week and it has had no ill effect on my playing. In fact, it probably helps with my wrist flexibility and dexterity. There are days when I would shoot 500-750 shots, it didn't affect my playing.
I also do weightlifting, something called Crossfit. High intensity. Explosive lifts over 100 lbs. Again, no effect on my playing.
I've had days where I play sports or workout and then play the piano for a few hours.
The key is proper technique so you don't get injured.
I would do specific exercises for your wrists, fingers and forearms. Stretch them and shake them out every time before you play. Do this as a warm-up, like you would before working out. Claw your fingers and paw forward. Extend your arm straight out, hand palm up like in a "stop" motion, and using your other hand stretch your wrist back.
That forearm problem has never been an issue. I used to play tennis, which would get the forearms really sore. Piano is not weight bearing, only repetitive.
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#1310549 - 11/22/09 06:08 PM
Re: exercise = stamina?
[Re: Wizard of Oz]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 12/22/01
Posts: 3851
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
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Rachmaninoff's advice to Horowitz "Walk, or your fingers will not run!" And Horowitz exercised by walking daily.
My technique was in its best shape, strength and endurance-wise, when I was in the Army (during the Viet Nam War), and going over a horizontal ladder several times every day. I can't find a horizontal ladder anywhere near me, so I don't know if that would be helpful to someone in my advanced stage of decrepitude. Also, that exercise works mainly on finger flexors, and if one were going to approach this rationally, a program to work on other muscle groups (extensors, ab- and adductors, and possibly interossei) as well might make more sense.
Brendan used to lift weights regularly. Perhaps he might be able to comment.
Finally, endurance exercise just to improve general conditioning is wise if only for overall health considerations (weight control, protection against cardiac problems, maintenance of coordination, and other advantages).
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There is no end of learning. -Robert Schumann Rules for Young Musicians
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