SEARCH
Piano & Music Gifts & Acc. - Shop Now
PianoSupplies.com (a division of Piano World) Piano & music accessories, music theme decoratons, tuning & repair tools, moving equipment, party goods,music gift items, ... more
Free shipping on Jansen Artist Benches.
Ad (Pearl River)
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
ad (Pianoteq)
Create your own piano with Pianoteq!
(ad) Making Music Magazine
Making Music Magazine Special Offer
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
215 registered (accordeur, 1091Piano, 36251, 15shoes, acerostone, AaronL619), 1486 Guests and 24 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
63302 Members
39 Forums
128826 Topics
1834786 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)
Forums by Piano World

www.pianoworld.com
Advertise on Piano World
Topic Options
#1309532 - 11/20/09 11:20 PM exercise = stamina?
Philip Lu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/25/09
Posts: 294
Loc: Hacienda Heights, CA
I was playing a difficult piece yesterday, and it seemed like my arm was getting tired, and it was getting stronger!

Instead of letting it do its job, I decided to do dozens of push-ups yesterday, and today, I feel like I have improved a lot. Has anyone else done this before? Exercise for better technique?
_________________________
"Nie Dam Sie!"

Top
Piano & Music Accessories
#1309540 - 11/20/09 11:39 PM Re: exercise = stamina? [Re: Philip Lu]
david_a Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 2881
Brisk exercise often helps piano playing; I assume this is related to general health and energy, not arm strength or anything like that.

Physical stamina (in other words, having lots of energy and not getting tired and worn down easily) is important in piano playing. Pure strength as seen in weight lifting competitions seems much less useful by comparison.
_________________________
(I'm a piano teacher.)

Top
#1309588 - 11/21/09 01:52 AM Re: exercise = stamina? [Re: david_a]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Dozens of push-ups yesterday are not going to build muscles today. It takes 3 days to feel the damage, 10 days (I think) for it to be repaired (build stronger muscles).
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


Top
#1309683 - 11/21/09 10:13 AM Re: exercise = stamina? [Re: keyboardklutz]
Morodiene Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 7236
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I would caution you against getting too bulky muscle-wise in the forearm, as it may decrease dexterity. Certainly some pieces require stamina, that's for sure, but generally that will come as you practice it, being careful you are not straining as you do so.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
WMTA member
www.musicperception.com

Top
#1309705 - 11/21/09 10:50 AM Re: exercise = stamina? [Re: Morodiene]
david_a Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 2881
There is absolutely no need for strong arms at the piano, or for any kind of muscle strength exercises. I tend towards being flabby, so I need to keep my activity level up, heart rate and blood flow going, and so on - but all the short slim people who are excellent pianists, and the fact that six-foot-six men with bulging arms do not magically play better than the rest of us, are good examples to keep in mind.

If a person's arms were especially weakened due to some physical disorder or a complete lack of activity, that would be different. But for the rest of us, just general "keeping in shape" without special exercise is quite enough.
_________________________
(I'm a piano teacher.)

Top
#1309727 - 11/21/09 11:28 AM Re: exercise = stamina? [Re: david_a]
Philip Lu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/25/09
Posts: 294
Loc: Hacienda Heights, CA
While I'm not getting bulky muscles, and have no intentions to, I disagree with david a about "absolutely no need". My forearm was getting used so much that it was getting tired. I think it might just have been some energy or the placebo effect, though I think exercise kicks in a lot quicker than 3 days. Mental exercise, if I do them for half an hour the night before, I could feel it the day after, and the improvements are staggering, as I do them night by night.
_________________________
"Nie Dam Sie!"

Top
#1309785 - 11/21/09 01:19 PM Re: exercise = stamina? [Re: Philip Lu]
MarkH Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 607
Loc: Seattle, WA
I'm a passionate enjoyer of exercise - especially weightlifting and running. I'm not musclebound, but I'm certainly a lot stronger than the average person. However, I don't think my exercising has had any major direct effect on my piano playing. I actively avoid doing any forearm weightlifting, because I find that the soreness that results hampers my playing speed and coordination for a day or so. I also find that the energy and mental reserve that I consume for working out during a solid block of time are the same reserves that I use for practicing. Thus, if I give myself a really challenging workout on a given day, I'm unlikely also to get in a very productive piano session that day.

I will say that my weightlifting MAY give me some small advantage in playing big works with lots of loud big chords. But mostly, I find that when I work out regularly, I simply feel much better about myself. My body feels more responsive and ready to do most anything, my mind feels sharper, and I'm generally in more cheerful spirits. That's the indirect way I think exercise helps me very much in piano, and I suspect that's what you were experiencing during your practice session and post-practice pushups:)
_________________________
Currently Studying: Bach - French Suite No. 5; Beethoven - 32 Variations WoO. 80, Pastoral Sonata; Liszt - Mazeppa; Chopin - Mazurka Op. 17 No. 4, Nocturne Op. 27 No. 1, Ballade No. 1

Top
#1309800 - 11/21/09 01:42 PM Re: exercise = stamina? [Re: Philip Lu]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: Philip Lu
though I think exercise kicks in a lot quicker than 3 days.
Quote:
The extent of muscle damage can be correlated with levels of creatine kinase in the blood. In healthy muscle tissue, creatine kinase is an enzyme responsible for converting ADP to ATP. However, when muscle tissue is damaged, the cell membranes are destroyed and creatine kinase leaks out of the muscle cells. Blood levels of creatine kinase are highest five days following exercise. This evidence implies that muscle tissue is not damaged immediately following injury, but rather during the repair process.

Muscle precursor cells, or satellite cells, are responsible for muscle tissue regeneration that may take days to weeks to complete.
From: http://www.bookrags.com/research/muscle-tissue-damage-repair-and-reg-wap/
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


Top
#1309905 - 11/21/09 04:28 PM Re: exercise = stamina? [Re: keyboardklutz]
Frozenicicles Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/09
Posts: 1324
Loc: Canada
For playing the piano, aerobic exercise would probably be more helpful in increasing stamina. You don't need to build big muscles to play an instrument like piano (drums, maybe?). Even for something like the Rach concertos, aerobic exercise to increase your O2 carrying capacity would help more than lifting weights.

Top
#1309922 - 11/21/09 04:55 PM Re: exercise = stamina? [Re: Philip Lu]
currawong Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5050
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Philip Lu
My forearm was getting used so much that it was getting tired.
It could have been getting tired because you were using the wrong technique.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

Top
#1310307 - 11/22/09 10:39 AM Re: exercise = stamina? [Re: currawong]
ConcertEtudes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/06/09
Posts: 82
I am not sure if physical exercise can built stamina for piano, but intense practicing of piano (especially difficult passages) can certainly build stamina for your future playing.


Edited by ConcertEtudes (11/22/09 10:41 AM)

Top
#1310455 - 11/22/09 02:42 PM Re: exercise = stamina? [Re: ConcertEtudes]
david_a Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 2881
There are people who would be universally and obviously considered "in bad shape" - who have difficulty with daily routine such as climbing stairs, walking to a destination, and so on. For a person in that kind of situation, some good exercise would most certainly improve their piano playing, along with (clearly) the rest of their life. The additional energy such a person would have after pursuing exercise for a few weeks or months could conceivably even improve their technical abilities, because they could move their arms faster, didn't feel so tired, etc.

People who are already in good shape by the standards of normal life will of course never see such dramatic results, but ordinary aerobic exercise at a moderate level can't be bad except in abnormal cases such as pre-existing injury or other similar things.

I'm not in terrible shape, and I have no injury concerns; but I'm slow, I spend a lot of the day sitting down, and would be better off if I lost 20 pounds or more. For a guy like me, who's in between the two categories outlined above, exercise is only going to be a benefit - to everything in life, piano playing included. I think there are thousands of pianists around the world who are not so different from me.


Special exercises that might directly affect the playing mechanism would have to be approached carefully or not at all - for example, see MarkH's comment about forearm weight-lifting being a potential problem for pianists.
_________________________
(I'm a piano teacher.)

Top
#1310491 - 11/22/09 04:07 PM Re: exercise = stamina? [Re: david_a]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
I play basketball alot, 3-4 times a week and it has had no ill effect on my playing. In fact, it probably helps with my wrist flexibility and dexterity. There are days when I would shoot 500-750 shots, it didn't affect my playing.

I also do weightlifting, something called Crossfit. High intensity. Explosive lifts over 100 lbs. Again, no effect on my playing.

I've had days where I play sports or workout and then play the piano for a few hours.

The key is proper technique so you don't get injured.

I would do specific exercises for your wrists, fingers and forearms. Stretch them and shake them out every time before you play. Do this as a warm-up, like you would before working out. Claw your fingers and paw forward.
Extend your arm straight out, hand palm up like in a "stop" motion, and using your other hand stretch your wrist back.

That forearm problem has never been an issue. I used to play tennis, which would get the forearms really sore. Piano is not weight bearing, only repetitive.

Top
#1310549 - 11/22/09 06:08 PM Re: exercise = stamina? [Re: Wizard of Oz]
Palindrome Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/01
Posts: 3851
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
Rachmaninoff's advice to Horowitz "Walk, or your fingers will not run!" And Horowitz exercised by walking daily.

My technique was in its best shape, strength and endurance-wise, when I was in the Army (during the Viet Nam War), and going over a horizontal ladder several times every day. I can't find a horizontal ladder anywhere near me, so I don't know if that would be helpful to someone in my advanced stage of decrepitude. Also, that exercise works mainly on finger flexors, and if one were going to approach this rationally, a program to work on other muscle groups (extensors, ab- and adductors, and possibly interossei) as well might make more sense.

Brendan used to lift weights regularly. Perhaps he might be able to comment.

Finally, endurance exercise just to improve general conditioning is wise if only for overall health considerations (weight control, protection against cardiac problems, maintenance of coordination, and other advantages).
_________________________
There is no end of learning. -Robert Schumann Rules for Young Musicians

Top



Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
Piano Books
(ad) GROTRIAN
GROTRIAN Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad 125) Sweetwater
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Lindeblad
Piano Restorations & Sales - Lindeblad Piano
Recent Posts
Interview with Cyprien Katsaris
by Damon
2 minutes 38 seconds ago
RIP - Whitney Houston
by CebuKid
2 minutes 38 seconds ago
I changed my view of Lang Lang
by Damon
4 minutes 54 seconds ago
best piano microphone
by Del
5 minutes 17 seconds ago
Complete Works of Beethoven
by composer123
8 minutes 26 seconds ago
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Virtual Piano Chords



 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |
 
PianoSupplies.com


Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| Del.icio.us |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2012 Piano World all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission