hi everyone,

i am a newbie here, my 13yr old daughter has just begun taking piano lessons and after looking around, i settled for a used yamaha UX ( 52" ) upright with a serial number in the 6,XXX,XXX range, i looked it up on the net and it is supposed to be a 2003 model made in yamaha's hamamatsu plant in japan. its the size of a U3 except that its got an X frame at the back and there's a slanted chamber in front of the keyboard. its also supposed to have hammers that are like the ones used in grands or baby grands ( not very sure ).

the unit appears to be in very clean and fresh condition and sounds really nice , we paid around 3750 USD for it , including delivery and tuning , it also came with a 5 year warranty , with 4 free tunings over 2 years.

would anyone know whether i got a fair deal ?

attached is the picture of the piano.

thanks !

ml

hi everyone,

i am a newbie here, my 13yr old daughter has just begun taking piano lessons and after looking around, i settled for a used yamaha UX ( 52" ) upright with a serial number in the 6,XXX,XXX range, i looked it up on the net and it is supposed to be a 2003 model made in yamaha's hamamatsu plant in japan. its the size of a U3 except that its got an X frame at the back and there's a slanted chamber in front of the keyboard. its also supposed to have hammers that are like the ones used in grands or baby grands ( not very sure ).

the unit appears to be in very clean and fresh condition and sounds really nice , we paid around 3750 USD for it , including delivery and tuning , it also came with a 5 year warranty , with 4 free tunings over 2 years.

would anyone know whether i got a fair deal ?

attached is the picture of the piano.

thanks !

ml

Hi, ML,

You bought a really nice piano at a really good price. You did well. Actually, for $3750, you did REALLY well. The Yamaha website shows that the 6,xxx,xxx serial numbers began in 2003.

Good luck to your daughter with he lessons.

Charles

hi ChasT,

thanks for the advice. btw, the pics i attached aren't showing, i will try to work it out so that i can show you what it looks like. thanks again !

ML

pictures , hopefully they show up this time , i changed the file names

sorry but the pics just wouldnt show , can anyone help me out ? how do i attach pictures ?

ML

I'd be very very curious as for seeing your pics.I've direct imported over a thousand gray market artist level Yamaha and Kawai uprts and grands and I've never even seen or thought existed a 6 million serial # UX. What mdl.UX is it ? Your out the door price is uh....falls into the category as being "To good to be true" especially from a dealer so...let's see those pics.

Did you go through tht regimented upload file process ?
http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/fileuploader2.html

If you email me your pics,I will post them for you.I'd really like to see your pics especially the internals including the serial # script on the harp.

pastperfectpiano@sbcglobal.net

hi pianobroker and chasT,

i just managed to upload the pics now, they are posted at the PHOTO GALLERY section entitled YAMAHA UX. try to check the pics out. would appreciate a reply as to what you guys think of the condition of the piano. thanks !

ML

It is a refurbished older UX3 of the late seventies to the early eighties.In my opinion one regilded the harp,restrung it,rescripted the new serial # and put the original action back in. The newer UX series uprts. as in the late eighties and nineties have a different case design altogether,fallboard and music rack etc.. I don't think Yamaha would regress and manufacture the older style case in a 2003 piano. Just from looking at it,it is not a 5-6 year old piano. I'm dying to find out who is refurbishing these pianos and rescripting them with the new serial # (s). There was a previous thread of one who had purchased a U3 with a very similar type refurbish and new serial #. It was marketed in the Phillipines. This is a job for Dateline /Chris Hansen,investigative reports. It is interesting that whoever is refurbishing these are making them 5-6 years new instead of 2008-2009 Very strategic,calculated,deceptive operation to say the least.

pianobroker,

oh ! so what does that mean ? does it mean that i have a bad piano ? did i pay too much for it if it is a refurbished one from the late 70's - early 80's ? is this a fraudulent piano ?

thanks

It means that the dealer misrepresented the piano to you. It does not mean you have a bad piano,it just means in a legal perspective,you did not recieve what you bargained for in this contractual transaction. Would you have purchased the piano if you were privy to it being 23 years older than respresented ? Maybe so! Maybe not!I would say it would be deemed misrepresentaion or a fraudulent transaction in that the standard as for the dealer is "knowledge thereof or should have had knowledge thereof". Another words,the dealer most likely knew and could not plead mutual mistake or ignorance. As a piano professional he is held to a higher standard.You're still deemed a piano professional even if you're selling out of your garage or storage bin. So....Keep it,take it back,sue them,get a price concession or chalk it up as a learning experience. It is actually worth what you paid for it!
I specialize in contract,real estate and piano litigation.

I don't think so. Assuming what you have said and what Broker has said are both correct, accepting the piano as such assists the perpetrators of the deception.

Also it's fair to assume that those who perpetrated such a hoax would be into cosmetic refurbishment of the piano and would not deal with any internals that may be wearing out. There are undoubtedly some grey marketeers with higher standards for pianos purchased than others, but this outfit would not be one of them.

Finally, if one day you want to sell it, you have two choices. You can disclose the false serial number and actual age, in which case it will be a tough sell, or you can say nothing, in which case you are participating in a fraud.

pianobroker,

so , in your opinion, aside from the "age-misrepresentation" is the integrity and quality of the piano compromised in any way ? will a refurbished old piano degrade faster or more easily than a non-refurbished one ? , can you tell from the pictures if the refurbishing was done properly ? thanks for all the info, its a big help.
we actually like the piano , it sounds very good and if we did not overpay, i think i can live with it.

turandot,

how can one tell if its just a cosmetic refurbishing or some other internal parts were changed ?

Well from looking at the pics....I can only make an educated guess on the refurbishing issues because the resolution of the pics are not that great.The harp could have been regilded(repainted)or maybe not.Might have been able to rescript the s/n without gilding over the original serial # on the harp.Piano definitely was restrung as the under string felt was changed from green to red.
What puzzles me is that the Bass strings don't look that new.It is possible they saved the original bass strings which is odd when restringing the entire piano.Who knows ? Availability or cost cutting manuever or ?.
The hammers and the action parts look somewhat original except maybe the bridal straps. Who knows as for the repetition threads? As for the integrity of the refurbish,it's a moot issue in that they basically just restrung it along with changing the damper felt most probable. Personally I would address the seller if not for anything more than principal sake. Good luck!

P.S. I wager that this piano is of the same refurbishment firm or affiliate as the refurbished U3 of the Phillipino dealer in that I notced the mdl.script(UX)was oversized as in the piano in the Phillipines.

yamaha1,

Broker can give you a far better answer than I can. I'm just a player. He knows these pianos inside out. Broker is pretty good about answering all questions. I think he's probably working now and will get back to this thread later.

In the meantime, the obvious things are uneven key weight, height, and response, discolored and/or deeply grooved felt on hammer heads or simply too little felt mass left on heads that have been filed down excessively, string rust, thuddy bass strings, damp mildewy smell, visible damage from moisture.

More on the inside would be the suppleness of the leather in the action, the spring tension (Broker always stresses the repetition threads), the alignment of the wooden action parts.

The internal stuff would be best judged by a good tech. Most techs have lots of experience with Yamaha verticals even if they don't see that many radial backs. Unfortunately, a tech inspection will set you back another $100 or so.

edit Oops. Just noticed that Broker posted. Follow up on whatever he says.

This incidence takes the "Gray Market" discussion to a higher level.

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This particular market looks pretty much black to me.