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#1308758 - 11/19/09 07:54 PM
Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
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Junior Member
Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 15
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
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We're piano shopping for a console or studio piano. We're considering either a new Yamaha P660 (or possibly used U1), a new Kawai K2 (or maybe K5) or a new Charles Walter Studio with Renner action.
We've looked at and played all of them in the past week. Right now, I'm leaning toward the Charles Walter. Although, we will try the new Yamaha P660 that arrived at a local dealer tomorrow after it is tuned.
Is ABS parts used in the action of Kawai or Yamaha a true concern?
Please share your experience and knowledge about these if you would.
Thanks!
Shelly in OK
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#1308791 - 11/19/09 08:52 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: laterlearner]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 635
Loc: Georgia
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Hi, Shelly,
First, welcome to the forum.
Carbon fiber action parts are not a problem. Carbon fiber is more stable than wood. It's less affected by changes in weather than wood. Since it's lighter than wood, the action is quicker. Lots of people think Kawai's Millennium II ABS action is excellent. I have no complaints about the action in my Kawai UST-9.
I think Charles Walter uprights are wonderful pianos. I love the action and the sound is better than any piano its size should ever be. They also have excellent cabinets and finishes.
You only mentioned the Kawai K-2 and K-5. The UST-9 and K-3 fit between them in the lineup and are worth looking at.
I don't know the Yamaha P660. Yamahas, in general, are solid pianos.
The brands you mentioned are all good. Just find the piano that feels, sounds and looks right to you. Keep us updated. If you have questions, ask. We like piano search threads. And good luck with your search!
Charles
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#1308814 - 11/19/09 09:21 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: ChasT]
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Junior Member
Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 15
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
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Thanks so much, Charles.
The reason I didn't mention the UST-9 or the K-3 is that they weren't in stock at our local dealer ... so I didn't get to try them out. If some come in soon, I will definitely look at them.
I sure appreciate the input! : )
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#1308823 - 11/19/09 09:28 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: laterlearner]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 1886
Loc: western Wisconsin
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The use of ABS parts is a non-issue in the Kawai pianos. Some even tout it as a feature.
Having said that, is the sound and feel you should love, not the sales spin.
_________________________
Pianist, teacher, internet addict. Guest contributor to Larry Fine's Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer Bechstein A190 #192939, awaiting delivery Schimmel 130T #339100 & Casio px-200 @ home Steinway A #585209 & Baldwin F #192164 @ work
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#1308853 - 11/19/09 10:21 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: terminaldegree]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 635
Loc: Georgia
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Shelly,
The UST-9 is Kawai's "institutional" piano. It has a much larger music desk than the K-2, K-3 and K-5. 46" high. The K-3, 48" high, is one of the most popular uprights around. Lots of our piano search threads end there. Even though I have a Kawai, I still think the Walter screams "SPECIAL" when I play it. There are no bad choices here, just personal preference. How old is the U-1 you talked about?
Charles
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#1308965 - 11/20/09 01:57 AM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: laterlearner]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 2772
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
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Is ABS parts used in the action of Kawai or Yamaha a true concern?
Nothing wrong with ABS. Nothing wrong with a Renner action either. Choose what appeals to you, not what you are told is "better"
_________________________
Verhnjak PianosSpecializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance of Fine Heirloom Pianos Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos www.pianoman.ca Verhnjak Pianos Facebook
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#1309255 - 11/20/09 02:11 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: Rod Verhnjak]
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Full Member
Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 490
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Without going into details; I don't see any reason why to compare any of the models/brands you mentioned to the Walter. The Walter should be a no brainer.
_________________________
Carnes Piano Company San Jose Purveyors of: Kawai, Seiler, Blüthner, Wilh. Steinberg, Charles Walter, Shigeru Kawai. Kawai Digital Piano, Pianodisc, QRS, PR1 Acoustic piano recorder. www.carnespianostore.com
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#1309264 - 11/20/09 02:33 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: ChasT]
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Junior Member
Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 15
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
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Shelly,
The UST-9 is Kawai's "institutional" piano. It has a much larger music desk than the K-2, K-3 and K-5. 46" high. The K-3, 48" high, is one of the most popular uprights around. Lots of our piano search threads end there. Even though I have a Kawai, I still think the Walter screams "SPECIAL" when I play it. There are no bad choices here, just personal preference. How old is the U-1 you talked about?
Charles Charles, The Yamaha U1 is a 1983 model and has been fully checked out by the store owner. The asking price is about $4400 US, but they said there is some negotiating room. The quoted price for the Walter 45" studio in polished ebony is $6,800 US. I'm still leaning (heavily) toward the Walter. Any opinions on the quoted prices? Thanks so very much! Shelly in OK *edited for clarification
Edited by laterlearner (11/20/09 02:38 PM)
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#1309271 - 11/20/09 02:44 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: Kurtmen]
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Junior Member
Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 15
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
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Thanks so much, Kurtmen. : ) Shelly Without going into details; I don't see any reason why to compare any of the models/brands you mentioned to the Walter. The Walter should be a no brainer.
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#1309300 - 11/20/09 03:42 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: laterlearner]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 1516
Loc: Massachusetts
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The Yamaha U1 is a 1983 model and has been fully checked out by the store owner. The asking price is about $4400 US, but they said there is some negotiating room.
The quoted price for the Walter 45" studio in polished ebony is $6,800 US.
I'm still leaning (heavily) toward the Walter.
Any opinions on the quoted prices?
Thanks so very much!
Shelly in OK
*edited for clarification
IMO, the price of the U1 is far too high--$2500 to $3500 sounds about right. In addition, who knows what "fully checked out" really means. I wouldn't make any assumptions about the condition of the U1 based on that statement.
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#1309301 - 11/20/09 03:44 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: laterlearner]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 635
Loc: Georgia
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Shelly,
You ought to look through Larry Fine's pianobuyer.com website. There's a link on the right side of this page. The pricing guide begins on page 188. $6800 is half the retail price of the Walter 1500 and 35% off Mr. Fine's SMP (suggested maximum price.) If I were shopping, I'd be thrilled, especially with the Renner action instead of the Chinese action.
Read the section on buying a used piano. It begins on page 47. Going by Mr. Fine's depreciation schedule, I'd say $4400's a bit much for a 1983 U-1. Also, the U-1's 26 years old with 26 year old strings, hammers, action, etc. It may have a dealer warranty for a while, but the Walter has a factory warranty.
If you can swing the higher price, I'd go with the Walter or a newer U-1, if you prefer the Yamaha. It's your personal preferrence, of course.
Are you open to shopping other brands? You might look at a Wm. Knabe WKV-121 or WKV-131, if you're near a dealer. I like Knabes a lot. Or perhaps a Hailun or a Brodmann. They get lots of good press, too.
You sound like you really like the Charles Walter, but are wanting someone to approve that choice. It's a really nice piano and a good choice, but it's YOUR decision. I suggest you play lots of pianos. Pick your favorites and play them several more times. Then, you'll be pretty certain of picking the one that's right for you.
And good luck!
Charles
PS: What part of Oklahoma? I lived in Oklahoma City for about 11 years. CT
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#1309320 - 11/20/09 04:13 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: ChasT]
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Full Member
Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 216
Loc: U.S.A.
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Quite the decent price on the Walter. I'm biased, but I would be leaning towards the Walter as well. I agree with Kurtman... it IS a no-brainer.
_________________________
Charles R. Walter 1520 QA Mahogany #531739 w/ High Polish, Renner and Quiet Pedal
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#1309494 - 11/20/09 10:11 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: laterlearner]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 2772
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
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[quote=ChasT]Shelly,
The quoted price for the Walter 45" studio in polished ebony is $6,800 US.
I'm still leaning (heavily) toward the Walter.
Any opinions on the quoted prices?
A low price for a fantastic piano. Is it the last one or a special order?
_________________________
Verhnjak PianosSpecializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance of Fine Heirloom Pianos Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos www.pianoman.ca Verhnjak Pianos Facebook
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#1309499 - 11/20/09 10:26 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: Rod Verhnjak]
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Junior Member
Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 15
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
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A low price for a fantastic piano.
Is it the last one or a special order?
There were only 2 Walter pianos currently in stock, but they've been an authorized Walter dealer for years and years. We preferred the 45" polished Ebony Walter piano. They offered to do a special order if we preferred a different wood or cabinet style, but I think the polished ebony is fine. I don't know if that same price would translate into a custom ordered Walter. We loved this piano! Tomorrow, I'm supposed to see and try out one additional piano. But, I think unless there's some kind of miraculous change, we're pretty much agreed that a Walter will be coming to our home soon. Shelly in OK
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#1309503 - 11/20/09 10:31 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: ChasT]
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Junior Member
Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 15
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
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Shelly,
You ought to look through Larry Fine's pianobuyer.com website. There's a link on the right side of this page. The pricing guide begins on page 188. $6800 is half the retail price of the Walter 1500 and 35% off Mr. Fine's SMP (suggested maximum price.) If I were shopping, I'd be thrilled, especially with the Renner action instead of the Chinese action.
Read the section on buying a used piano. It begins on page 47. Going by Mr. Fine's depreciation schedule, I'd say $4400's a bit much for a 1983 U-1. Also, the U-1's 26 years old with 26 year old strings, hammers, action, etc. It may have a dealer warranty for a while, but the Walter has a factory warranty.
If you can swing the higher price, I'd go with the Walter or a newer U-1, if you prefer the Yamaha. It's your personal preferrence, of course.
Are you open to shopping other brands? You might look at a Wm. Knabe WKV-121 or WKV-131, if you're near a dealer. I like Knabes a lot. Or perhaps a Hailun or a Brodmann. They get lots of good press, too.
You sound like you really like the Charles Walter, but are wanting someone to approve that choice. It's a really nice piano and a good choice, but it's YOUR decision. I suggest you play lots of pianos. Pick your favorites and play them several more times. Then, you'll be pretty certain of picking the one that's right for you.
And good luck!
Charles
PS: What part of Oklahoma? I lived in Oklahoma City for about 11 years. CT Charles, There aren't many Knabes that I've been able to find, and I've never found a Hailun or Broadmann in our area (OKC metro). We've got another piano to see and try out tomorrow, but at this point, unless it is beyond our wildestest expectations, we're pretty solid on choosing a Walter. We're in central OK, actually Norman. Yes, everyone's all about OU football here (however this season has been painful). It's good to find another Oklahoman (even if temporarily) here! Shelly
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#1309506 - 11/20/09 10:34 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: laterlearner]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 2772
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
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I asked re the custom order as many dealer will discount for custom orders since they don't have to put out the money with hopes of a sale.
Enjoy whatever piano you choose.
_________________________
Verhnjak PianosSpecializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance of Fine Heirloom Pianos Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos www.pianoman.ca Verhnjak Pianos Facebook
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#1309510 - 11/20/09 10:40 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: Rod Verhnjak]
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Junior Member
Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 15
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
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I asked re the custom order as many dealer will discount for custom orders since they don't have to put out the money with hopes of a sale.
Enjoy whatever piano you choose. Thanks so much for your input. I didn't realize there might be a discount... wow! I may have to inquire a bit more with them and consider polished mahogany. ; ) BTW, I looked at your website. What a wonderful shop you own. Your restoration pictures and pianos in stock are incredible! Thanks so much for offering your time to help. Shelly
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#1309560 - 11/21/09 12:15 AM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: laterlearner]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 2772
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
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I asked re the custom order as many dealer will discount for custom orders since they don't have to put out the money with hopes of a sale.
Enjoy whatever piano you choose. Thanks so much for your input. I didn't realize there might be a discount... wow! I may have to inquire a bit more with them and consider polished mahogany. ; ) BTW, I looked at your website. What a wonderful shop you own. Your restoration pictures and pianos in stock are incredible! Thanks so much for offering your time to help. Shelly I'm not suggesting you will get a better price than you already have, as it is already heavily discounted. Thanks for your kind words.
_________________________
Verhnjak PianosSpecializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance of Fine Heirloom Pianos Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos www.pianoman.ca Verhnjak Pianos Facebook
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#1309635 - 11/21/09 08:07 AM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: Rod Verhnjak]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 635
Loc: Georgia
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Shelly, What are you going to look at today? It'll have to be pretty wonderful to beat out the Walter. (I guess you've noticed; we like Walter pianos.) I think the Walter is the most refined piano near the price range and $6800 is a great price. It sounds like you've done your research. You're going to be very satisfied with your new piano. I lived near Sooner and SE 59th, not far from the GM plant and Tinker. I made the drive down Sooner to Norman many times. When I retired, I considered going to law school at OU. Then I reconsidered.  I left OKC in 1995 and returned to Georgia. My family was here and I didn't have any reason to be anywhere else. I think I sold my house there about 20 minutes before the market skyrocketed. Anyway, let us know what you decide. Charles
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#1309680 - 11/21/09 10:10 AM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: laterlearner]
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Junior Member
Registered: 11/20/09
Posts: 3
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I am having the same dilemma. I am looking at buying a piano. I play and so do my young children. I have narrowed the search down to Yamaha vs Charles Walter: 1)used 10 year old USA market Yamaha U1 in high gloss ebony for $3000 including tax and delivery 2)new Yamaha P660 (which is the same as the P22 but nicer cabinet) for $5300 including tax and delivery 3)new Charles Walter 1520 Traditional with non-Renner action for $6300 4)new Charles Walter 1520 Traditional with Renner action for $7300 I thought I was going to buy the Walter, but now I am leaning toward the P660 for best value, as I get the fancy walnut cabinet, the P22 insides (and it plays well--better than the M500 series for sure), and the price is $2000 less than the Renner Walter. The U1 is a great value, but I would rather have a brown cabinet than a high gloss black. Here is my question--How does the Yamaha P660 compare?
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#1309733 - 11/21/09 11:49 AM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: Jay C B]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19253
Loc: Kansas
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the action of the Walter is superb, coupled with a great tone and balance. love those pianos.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few
love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
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#1309809 - 11/21/09 01:49 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: Jay C B]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 2772
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
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I am having the same dilemma. I am looking at buying a piano. I play and so do my young children. I have narrowed the search down to Yamaha vs Charles Walter:
Here is my question--How does the Yamaha P660 compare? You tell us. Which one do you like more?
_________________________
Verhnjak PianosSpecializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance of Fine Heirloom Pianos Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos www.pianoman.ca Verhnjak Pianos Facebook
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#1309835 - 11/21/09 02:15 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: Rod Verhnjak]
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Junior Member
Registered: 11/20/09
Posts: 3
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They all sound very good. I can't tell the difference b/w the Walter Chinese action vs the Walter Renner action vs the P22/P660 or U1 action. They respond equally well to fast repetitive playing. I know CWs are higher rated (LF book), come with a longer warranty, and are considered to be of a higher quality. But do we need that for an extra $2000+? Right now I am leaning toward the $3000 used--10 yr old--one owner with a purchase certificate--made for the US market which I doublechecked w/ yamaha.com-- U1 on craigs list OTHERWISE the $5300 new Yamaha P660. I realize I don't get the warranty with the used U1. I will have a tech check it out. Any other reason why the U1 shouldn't be on the top of my list?
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#1309890 - 11/21/09 04:05 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: Jay C B]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 635
Loc: Georgia
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Hello, Jay CB. Welcome to the forum. All the pianos you mentioned are acceptable or better in quality. You need to decide what your budget is and how much you could stretch if you found something you really loved. $3K for a 10 year old U-1 is a very good buy, if your tech gives it the thumbs up. The Walter and the P660 are fairly priced, not too bad for you, not too bad for the dealer. We do want our dealers around if we decide to trade up. If I could feel no difference in the Renner and the Walter action, I'd be tempted to save the $1K. I can't say about the P660, but there are some P-22s I like and some I don't like. I'm talking sound, of course. So, it sounds like your choice is between the U-1, the less expensive Walter and the P660. You won't get hurt buying a $3K U-1, if you wish to trade later. Trading later is a bit of a hassle, of course. It seems we're down to budget and personal preference, again. I guess this could just be a wasted post.  Good luck, whatever you decide. Charles
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#1309920 - 11/21/09 04:53 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: ChasT]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 1516
Loc: Massachusetts
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For my taste the P660 would way at the bottom of the list. If you want a Yamaha, the U1 is much better IMO.
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#1309958 - 11/21/09 06:10 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: Roy123]
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Junior Member
Registered: 11/20/09
Posts: 3
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Thank you for the info--glad to see that the used U1 might be the better choice. To complicate matters, the P660 negotiations brought the price down to $4600 plus tax and delivery ($5000). No one made a case for spending more to get a Walter 1520, with Renner (7300 plus tax and delivery) or non-Renner (6300 plus tax and delivery) action. So, I'm going to look at the U1, and hopefully my tech will like it enough for me to buy it. Jay
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#1310015 - 11/21/09 07:59 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: Jay C B]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 635
Loc: Georgia
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Jay C B,
Reread the first 2/3 of the thread. We love Walter pianos. Personally, I think it's the finest piano at the price point. When I said "acceptable or better," the Walter was the "better." It's up to you to decide if your suits your tastes and budget. If you like, here are some attributes:
Excellent touch, both Renner and Chinese. Very refined. Nice, full "American" sound, much larger more than you'd expect from the size. All wood cabinets, very solid, no partical board, furniture quality. Above average finish. One of the few remaining true American piano companies, still family owned.
Now that I've said that, the Yamaha U-1 is a very popular and well made piano. It has a different sound than the Walter. The one you've found is also less than half the price of the Walter. Which do you like better? If the Walter, is it worth the price difference? In the end, it's your preference.
Charles
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#1310642 - 11/22/09 08:52 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: ChasT]
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Junior Member
Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 15
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
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It will be a Walter for us! : )
Thank you to everyone for all your help, truly.
Shelly in OK
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#1310649 - 11/22/09 09:06 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: laterlearner]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 635
Loc: Georgia
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Excellent choice, Shelly! Congratulations! When's it coming home? Send pictures
Charles
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#1310928 - 11/23/09 12:30 PM
Re: Yamaha vs. Kawai vs. Walter Console/Studio
[Re: ChasT]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 2772
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
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Congratulations on choosing a Walter piano.
Did you end up with the polished ebony?
_________________________
Verhnjak PianosSpecializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance of Fine Heirloom Pianos Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos www.pianoman.ca Verhnjak Pianos Facebook
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