I love your posts. Your sarcasm is hilarious and refreshing. I wonder if anyone takes comments like this seriously?

I'm completely serious. Can anyone here
say that his playing level has increased
significantly since the end of high school?
It may have been polished up, and your
physical strength might have increased,
and you might have gained more knowledge,
and of course, you have more experience.
But the basic level of playing cannot
increase.

By the end of high school I was playing
easier preludes and nocturnes. Something
like a Clementi sonata was beyond
my ability. I could not sight read
anything. Now, many yrs. later, I'm
playing concert pianist level pieces--
worked up by repetition over many yrs.,
which I could have done in high school,
if I had realized you could do this.
I'm physically stonger, more knowledgable,
and more experienced. But my basic
level of playing, terminal advanced-
intermediate, or thereabouts, has
not changed to any signifcant degree.
I still can't sight read anything,
and a Clementi sonata is still beyond
my ability.

I can. I notice improvement at every lesson. In fact, I'm going to perform the nocturne I've been working on (and finally finished...) tonight. Once again, the quality of your teacher makes a difference. A big difference. If you make no improvements despite a large time/effort investment, something is wrong.



Who was your teacher in high school? I'd say if you were handed a raw deal, if Clementi was still above your head by that time. Of course, I can's speak for your individual abilities.

Gyro, if you can't sight read you have not tried hard enough or been properly instructed. Anyone can learn to sight read, even an adult, and in my opinion it's an extremely important skill. Maybe that's why it's taking you so long to learn a piece.

I still believe you're being sarcastic and trying to discourage people, but some won't see that. I'll just say you never stop learning just because you reach a certain age. I'm just beginning piano, but I've played cello since childhood, and at 24 I can say my level and ability in high school paled in comparison to my current ability. While you're right, I will never be as proficient with the piano as I am with the cello, I know if I continue playing piano the next 10 or 20 years I will certainly not be at the same place I am now.

Gyro's joking around.

Passion, at 24 you're already
physically matured--as compared
to a teenager--and so if
you're just starting piano, you'll
quickly reach what will be
your terminal level, say, by
5 yrs., at the most. From then
on there can be no more significant
progress. That is, you cannot
keep raising your playing
level continously over time so
that in 20 yrs. you'll be in
Carnegie Hall.

I have improved dramatically since high school. Pieces that were challenging for me in high school are sight readable now. Technically speaking, I'm far, far more advanced than I was in high school. This is not "polishing up" by any means. I'm talking huge differences here.


Well there you go. That is your one experience having not improved. And then you go ahead and post as if you have researched this and are some sort of expert on it. Those who do not know any better assume you know what you're talking about. But you are contradicting yourself: how can you say that being physically stronger, more knowledgeable, and more experienced is not an improvement over where you were at in high school? Isn't that what you are comparing yourself to? There are any number of reasons for why a Clementi sonata woudl be beyond you as well as sight reading, but those failings do not negate your own self-assessment that you have indeed improved.

Wow, this discussion is certainly getting off topic! Now, back to the OP's original concerns:
I can understand why your teacher would want you to improve your sight reading ability by learning a lot of pieces and not finishing them, but I believe that you should also be assigned a few pieces that you work up to performance level so that your polishing and interpretation skills are also being improved. You could work on a piece that contains many short pieces with a variety of technical demands. Schumann's Papillons or Carnival come to mind. For me, the whole point of learning piano is to be able to bring a piece close to perfection and perform it for an audience to the best of my abilities, and it should be a skill that your teacher is helping you develop. If I wanted to try my hand at a wide range of repetoire without attempting to perfect them, I could do that comfortably at home with no instruction needed.

Edit to say: I don't think you should be paying her well above what her other students are paying her. You're not wasting her time. You're motivated, you practice, and you follow her instructions. That's more than the average piano student can say, I bet.

Morodiene, what were you playing in
high school, and what are you playing
now? I contend it is not significantly
at a different level. You may
be stronger and more experienced,
but the basic level has not changed
significantly. For example, you
mentioned that you were working on the
Chopin Third Ballade. That's
a finger-bending piece of concert
pianist-level difficulty, and if you
could work that up in several
months, then I'd say your
level has changed, but
you've apparently shelved it,
because you couldn't work it
up quickly, which means that a
piece like that is essentially
out of your reach, and will
always be out of your reach
in the normal sense. You,
or anyone else, could work
it up, but not in a few months,
like a concert pianist or top
conservatory player. It would
take much longer, and you'd
have to use repetition over
a long time.

I'm stronger and more experienced
than I was in high school, but
my level has not really changed.
I can no longer play the preludes
and nocturnes I played in high
school, and it would be no snap
to work them up now. I can only
play the advanced pieces I'm
working on now by sheer repetition
over many years.

Poppycock! Gyro, your experience is regrettable but not universal. The music I am playing now is significantly more difficult that what used to challenge me in high school. We’ve had this discussion before. You just won’t let go of the fact that you are stuck, treading water and you refuse to take any of the good advice offered here at PW. It’s fine to feel sorry for yourself but don’t make generalizations about everyone else! It is entirely possible to continue progressing without attending a conservatory or being a concert pianist. It takes hard work, a deep love of music, a flexible mind, and an excellent teacher. It sounds like you have the hard work and love of music down, but not the other two.

Yes!!!

Do I have to explain in detail how poor and lame my piano skills were by the time I quit (2 yrs b4 end of High School) The three or four years later I briefly saw a teacher for a term who said my technique was beyond help (she should not have said this, and she was wrong). The hardest piece i could play all the notes of was bach prelude in C (you know the one). And it would have been heavy handed and not beautiful. So I gave up for more than a decade, and now am a completely different player. A flexible mind is a great asset, well said gooddog!

gyro, your story is interesting i think, you must be quite unique

I have improved GREATLY since high school. I now easily and quickly learn things that were completely impossible for me back then. I'm 40 now.

I have improved - too- (per my teacher and friends) but I need to match my learning ability with the right teacher. I am more self-critical than I was in HS, much more ecstatic with the music, my practice is much more focused and productive, and I'm much less distracted. As I search for the right teacher - I learn more about myself as a student of piano. I take this process quite seriously-- and I may be experiencing some adjustment pains with this new teacher, who feels that I need more of a foundation to my repertoire before tackling harder pieces- I have to put it in my mind to trust this process and let-let-let her teach me-her way for a bit longer. Already I feel the fruits of my work- and further conversation with my teacher should clarify where we're headed. Now the issue of feeling intimidated may fade eventually- may have a lot to do with "where I put my head" during lesson time- not sure because I have never felt this way before. Or, it may have to do with her demeanor. I'll know more in a couple of weeks.

How wonderful! I'm so proud of you! Your attitude about your teacher sounds mature, patient and thoughtful. I'm sure you will make the right decision at the right time.

Deborah, I don't believe you're
playing at a significantly higher
level than in high school. You
mentioned that you spent a yr. at
a conservatory, and so your playing
was already quite advanced back then.
What you describe that you're playing
now seems in the same general range of difficulty. And the things you
had difficulty with back then,
you're still apparently having
the same problems with, like
the most difficult Prokofiev
sonatas, which you couldn't work
up quickly under your teacher of
a yr. ago and had to shelve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crank_(person)

Some good reading here!

Steven

Yes. My playing changed in the span of three months actually (this August-November), because I started studying with a new teacher who opened my eyes. And I was 19.

Your playing CAN change, but it's mostly up to you.

Just because Gyro says he's serious, you all assume he is?

Read "The Collected Wisdom of Forrest Gump" for clarification.

Well, way back when, I struggled with very simple pieces. Now 72 and "beginning" again, I play some pretty advanced pieces, thing I could never have dreamed in my youth (Bach WTC Vol 1 P&F #2, for instance).

Gyro, don't apply your limitations to the rest of the forum members!

"And that's all I have to say about that".

[edit] Just so we're clear, I'm talking about Forrest Gump and NOT Gyro.

Gyro,

At the age of 18 my teacher was playing Bach Inventions. by the time he graduate college at the age of 23, he was playing chopin's Black Key etude and Ravel's Jeaux De Aeu.

Do me a favor.. ask anyone with a performance degree on piano and see if they will agree with you. Chances are 99.9% of them will disagree..

If there is anything universal about what you say in general, its that 99.9% of qualified teachers and performers will discredit your opinion as complete nonsense

Not so. First of all, I dropped out of the conservatory after only 3 weeks. Back in 1969, I auditioned with a Chopin Waltz (A minor Op 34 #2) and Rachmaninoff Prelude (C# minor Opus 3 #2). I was challenged by those pieces back then. I now find them to be fairly easy.

Since then I've tackled more Rachmaninoff, Chopin, Haydn, Moussorsky, Brahms, tons of Bach and many others - all much more difficult than what I was playing in high school. This is not only my opinion, it is substantiated by the various ranking resources that are available.

The Prokofiev was indeed difficult and I believe I am fully capable of playing it (as does my new teacher). The fact that I was having difficulty and was not getting help from my former teacher was one of the reasons I changed teachers. My new teacher wants me to wait until I've worked with her longer before I attempt it again along with Beethoven's Waldstein. I never would have been attempted these pieces much less bring them to performance level when I was in high school, nor would I have been capable of performing a Bach concerto acceptably - which I did this past summer.

It would be convenient to say I am a rare exception to your assumption, but as you see from other posts, I'm not alone. Sorry Gyro, you're wrong. Gooddog just keeps getting better.

Oh, one more from the same household (see above) -

My wife was about an early intermediate level when she graduated from high school. With several years off-and-on along the way, she is now definitely an advanced performer.