It's understandable to be concerned about a tank of water near the piano, but D-C has figured it all out in the 60 years they've been in business.

First, for grands there is a shield that protects the soundboard from direct humid airflow. Next, on all systems, the humidistat continuously cycles between the wet side of the system and the dry side, so that many times a day the heater bars come on, even if just briefly, in order to circulate the air and to prevent condensation.

I'll be the first one to say that whole-house humidity control is the platinum option. It's what museums use, and it typically costs like platinum. If you can do it, great. Be aware that high humidity in winter in a cold climate can cause condensation and water damage on interior walls.

The bottom line is that humidity control is a grey scale: you don't have to be perfect to make an improvement. Even museums don't get to 99.99% control. Whatever steps you can take to keep indoor relative humidity somewhere between 40% and 60%, your piano will last that much longer. And if you can keep it within, say, a 10% range between 40% and 60% (like 42% to 52%), that's the ideal.

Many people use a combination of a D-C system for the piano, and a supplemental humidifier in the winter for the room and your own comfort.

But I'm an unapologetic fan of the Piano Life Saver system. It has no moving parts, it's completely quiet, it uses little electricity, and it needs very little maintenance. Whole-house alternatives have none of these advantages.

--Cy--

Thanks for this additional great reply.

And let me ask this, to you and anyone else who might have an idea:

In view of "whole-house" being the ideal thing.....Don't a couple of well-placed store-bought regular humidifiers accomplish the same thing as "whole-house" humidification, provided we make sure that the humidity in the whole vicinity of the piano is in the optimal range?

And if so, what is the advantage of a DampChaser over that?

I sounds to me like the biggest difference is the effect of summertime humidity.

Many piano stores use exactly this method in the winter. It's a good solution for them: they have multiple pianos in a small space, and they can afford to keep them running. It's cheaper than installing D-C's in every piano.

But when people want to play, they often have to shut them off, because they're noisy. They run out of water in a few days unless they're plumbed into the water lines. You have to be careful not to arrange them so that mist lands on the pianos and makes water spots (I think it's the ultrasonic kind that have this tendency -- is that right?). You have to maintain them: keep the filters clean to prevent mold buildup. And they cost more in electricity to run: D-C has done some studies on their website.

Oh, and then what do you do in the summer? Use a couple of store-bought, well-placed dehumidifiers, right? Noise, expense, and maintenance again (and they fill up in a few days and shut off).

I spent four winters in Minnesota (we don't say "years" :-), and I was looking at a whole-house system myself. The advantage is that everyone is comfortable in every room (and the furniture). I used to get painful cracks in my fingertips that affected my tuning (Liquid Skin helps!). My furnace didn't have a two-speed fan, so it was going to be a lot more expensive than I thought.

--Cy--

Thanks SO much for this great, comprehensive reply -- and really to everyone on here for helping us understand more about the ins-and-outs not only of DC but of this whole subject.

The noise is no issue for me, for an odd reason: Due to allergies, I have a very noisy air purifier in that same area, so the extra noise from the humidifiers is negligible. I know that this won't apply for most people.

About having to keep putting water in the humidifiers: I 'assumed' you have to do that too for DC!! Although I did wonder exactly how that's done.
So, do you mean the DC is "plumbed into the water line"? Sounds like it -- and this would give me a whole new range of paranoid concerns.

Maintaining the humidifiers (filters etc.) is a nuisance but has become second-nature and isn't an issue for me.

About summer: Not much of an issue. The humidity never gets terribly high (as per hygrometer) and in any event the dryness is what I'm most concerned about. (By the way, is the latter not proper?)

Thanks so much again!!!!

Cy wasn't talking about DC's being plumbed into a water line; he was talking about room humidifiers. DC's fill easily from a slender watering can (provided).

As for what piano stores do in summer, most have air conditioning, so that takes care of the humidity without need for dehumidifiers.

Yes -- I understood that he was talking about room humidifiers there, but thought that since he seemed to be making a contrast to the DC, he might have been implying that the DC is plumbed into the water line.
Thanks for clarifying!! (I don't blame him for not saying it differently, because he had no reason to think I was quote as ignorant about it as I am.)

It seems to me that this water-filling aspect isn't a significant additional advantage for the DC over 'regular' humidifiers; I don't see that the watering-can thing is materially different than what we have to do for regular humidifiers.
With the DC, you're carrying a watering can to the piano. With the other, you're carrying the tank to the sink. I suppose the former is a bit easier -- but I think not much.

@ MarkCannon

I believe there is a subtle and important difference between the room humidify and the Dampp Chaser system... at least in my case where I have a DC system installed in an upright. The DC controls the humidity inside the piano: at the moment as we enter autumn since it is getting colder outside - there has been a significant drop in humidity inside the house (in general low 40's % RH) even with the room humidity running - while inside the piano (with the DC) it has been in the high 50's with the heating bar (dehumidifier) running almost constantly. The upright piano is essentially a upright box and in my opinion probably more suited for a DC system than a grand (but I am willing to be corrected)... but if you are worried about strings rusting - hammers felts drying out - and the soundboard expanding due to excess humidity - for me the best place to control the humidity is inside the piano.

Since the volume of air inside the piano is much smaller that the volume of the room/house - of course the refilling of the DC occurs much less often ..

In the summer - we have no air conditioning so there are many open windows etc .. thus a dehumidifier makes no sense for us - far better that the humidity is kept low inside the piano.

I am not trying to convince you one way or the other - just giving the reasons that I use to justify the installation of the Dampp Chaser - of course if the external climate also has a controlled humidity - so much the better.

Thanks -- it seems like maybe the DC is even more important for an upright, which in a way is ironic because grands are usually more "precious" and so people might care more about taking the best care of them. You explain it well.

But, I wonder if the factor of "inside the piano" doesn't matter that much, because as long as the humidity in the area of the piano is kept within the proper range (including by regular humidifiers, or whatever), the entire inside of the piano will take on that same level of humidity.
I think.

Exactly what relative humidity is the DC system programmed to maintain? 50%?

There are choices, but the default is 42%. If a piano is accustomed already to a wetter or dryer climate, we can choose other humidistat settings.

Mark, the D-C needs less maintenance because it's humidifying a much smaller space. It does not connect to a water line; as I said earlier you typically add a gallon of water every 10 days.

--Cy--

I have a DC installed on my piano. I bought a $20 hygrometer at Radio Shack tonight, placed it underneath the piano about an inch or two from the soundboard--after about 20 minutes it's reading 57%. Is that acceptable?

EDIT: Now it's reading 60%

EDIT: Now 62% (maybe there's something wrong with the hygrometer )

Thank you -- and SORRY that I missed it before!!

I was worried about this same thing (the possibility of the the DC harming my piano) when I was considering buying one this past summer. Here's the thread on that:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1254278/1.html

There are lots of other threads in the Tuner/Technicians forum on the Dampp-Chaser system, too.

(BTW, I did end up getting the DC system installed.)

.....AND???

I'm still trying to get past the haven't needed to tune my piano in 3 years. If my pianos aren't tuned within 9 monthes to a year I go nuts. I can't stand it when they're even a little out of tune? What, are the pianos never played? Someone please answer about the Damp Chaser, I'm interested to know the answer also.

And that's in New Mexico. In South Carolina I end up adding a gallon about once a month!

Actually, about two gallons a month is typical in winter across most of the US, especially the midwest and northeast with cold winters. Remember it's the *indoor* dryness that is being corrected, and that's caused by drying the air with your furnace.

They renamed the product the Piano Life Saver because many people were assuming wrongly that in dry climates there was no "dampp" to be chased. Our summers are dry in the high desert, and so many people use "swamp coolers" instead of refrigerated A/C. With these evaporative coolers, I've watched the indoor RH go from 30% in 60% in half an hour, while I'm just getting started on a tuning!

--Cy--

New ones are probably close enough (within 10%); they can drift over time as dust builds up. I'd have your tech check out your system.

Does it have a high/low memory? Let it sit overnight and see with the max and min are. What's the temperature?

--Cy--

Can a piano be damaged during installation??

If you touch the hydrometer, it will read high. I just purchased one from Lowes for less tha $10 that has a memory function, so you can see the historic highs and lows. I suggest mounting it on a wall or something, so you dont handle it when you take a reading.

Justin, there's a three-light panel about half the size of a deck of cards that attaches with two half-inch screws to the underside of the keybed, and some people worry about putting screws into their new piano. If they only new how many thousands of screws were already in it! I use tape for those people, but honestly, sometimes it's a lot messier to remove tape.

One of the reasons the system is only sold and installed by technicians is exactly to avoid any incidental damage. I prefer that owners not even try to clean inside a piano, just because you need to know your way around to avoid misaligning a damper or causing corrosion on a bass string by touching it.

The potential for damage is much higher through excessive humidity swings. I just tuned for a new customer this week, and I had to show her that her piano less than a year old had a hairline soundboard crack right down the middle.

--Cy--

Thanks very much Cy - that was pretty much my last question. Soundsw like a good investment.

I don't know if this helps those of you with concerns regarding the Dampp Chaser system but I recently saw a pamphlet for the system and in the back are endorsements from piano companies such as Kawai, Yamaha, Steinway etc. I can't imagine that any of these highly regarded companies would give their seal of approval if there was ANYTHING to be concerned about in installing one on your piano. But who knows, maybe I'm naive

And...
Had DC installed about two weeks after piano was delivered. First in-home tuning done about two weeks after that. Went through some high-humidity end-of-summer days and we're now heading into the dry days of winter. I'm filling the reservoir about every 2 weeks now, it seems. Haven't measured the humidity in the piano, but tuning seems to be holding well (not that my ear is that great; I'll see what my tech says next time he comes out. But because it's new, I expect it will be going out of tune). It is keeping me from worrying about the piano drying out or the soundboard cracking.

I think you're right.
I'm still hesitant.
But don't mind me.....see my sig:

Sounds like you're more than content with it and that there haven't been any evident issues.

Since you're a person who initially shared my fear, that's quite a vote of confidence.
Almost enough for me to think of shedding my paranoia.

AJF,

The endorsement by Steinway on the back of a DC marketing pamphlet is somewhat misleading. I've had several conversations with Steinway's people in charge of technical services as well as some of their techs and they unanimously caution against using the DC as a substitute for controlling humidity in the room.

They recommend the DC only if the room can not be adequately controlled.

fingers

Dam, now you've got us paranoid again!

But really, thanks very much for that. I'm trying to sort this all out, and I imagine others are too.

A New York DC seller/installer suggested that I monitor the RH over time before making any decisions. I'm on my 3rd grand and never used a DC. Maybe one of these days I'll give it a try.

fingers