Daniel, we're probably saying the same thing, but just to clarify, I'm not talking about people to whom I've given my email address. Just those who have used a directory service to get my email.

However, anyone visiting my web site can get my "office" email, and trust me, plenty of people do email out of the blue. I seldom respond, unless it's a very, very polite, "I'm really sorry to intrude, but I have this question which you might help me with. . ." Do you realize that right now, I have hundreds of millions of unclaimed money in various British banks? Fortunately, my email service sweeps out the viagra ads, so I'm not getting those any more.

Daniel - I agree with what you have said here. I think there's an important point for all of us to remember though - the original poster's description of what happened was one-sided and very sketchy indeed.

Oh, I also receive "requests" for lessons from parents all over the world who just happen to be sending their child to Olympia for a few months. Apparently, we have one of the most international cities in the nation!

1) Perhaps the email and phone are for the sole purpose of cancelling your lesson with advance notice?

2) Approximately 10 lessons under your belt with one absence?
May I ask how many times you've emailed the teacher during that time? And for what reasons?

3. 4.) Most teacher would offer you a time they have available and you would reply something like "I'm not able to come that day, but Monday or Tuesday would work for me: Do you have any openings on those days? It sounds like she agrees she will give you a make up, but she does not have a time slot available right now. She will offer a time to you when she has one to offer. She having students who have studied longer probably has a longer make up list than you are aware of and she probably is coming down from the top of the list and will get to your make up when she can.

Are these your first piano lessons in your life or have you studied before? Your approach seems a little demanding to me. The teacher has a "tempo" going of how she operates her studio - the longer she has been teaching - the longer this system has been in existance.

If she has given any printed studio policies to you or they are on her website you should read them carefully. Some studios also have contracts to sign and that should be read carefully.

I think the more you try to fit into her preferred way of handling the business end of her studio, the better you will fit in as her piano student. In my opinion, you are making excessive demands of a teacher who is trying to demonstrate to you by her actions that this is not how she conducts business. You have said that she answers the questions you had during your lessons, so she is not inattentive to your needs.

Everything you have said about the teacher tells me more about your attitude and a need to adjust to the teachers (or any teacher) lead. I'm telling you this because disrespectful attitudes and too much familiarity and asking for attention begins to throb and identify you as a difficult person to get along with. At some point a teacher will decide that the student is not working out and is a big drain on their time and attention. Teachers decide this to protect themselves from stress and abuse.

The teaching part is the joy of it but we can't carry everyone through lessons without there being some good intentions toward the teacher and the other members of the studio. You are turning the things you are telling us into stress - for yourself and for your teacher - by dramatizing the problem and placing blame. It seems like simple polite communication would have solved this problem the first week you had it.

If you want to spin your wheels that's your choice, but the teacher is showing a higher example that you need to see and understand. She doesn't respond to emails of the kind you are sending. She is making a choice she is entitled to make. In my opinion, you are not falling through the cracks in her teaching efforts, but you are about to blow it bigtime. Wherever you go for lessons you will take this attitude with you because it's how you see things. Why not change your attitude behavior and learn a different approach as this one is not working for you.

Your job is to be the best piano student you know how to become - her job is to help you do it. I think with the resentment you have built up in a very short time you would find practicing the piano difficult to do. Your irritation level is high or you wouldn't have applied your "all teachers" comment. I don't think you want to continue in this mode. And, I really do hope you have a better situation really soon. We all thrive on positive things so contribute to turning your situation around immediately or there will be no hope to fix it. I can almost guarantee it.

Your teacher is responding you just haven't gotten the message.

LOL! Olympia and Wausau, WI!

Read Mary's email that she copied verbatim, Betty. That was exceptionally polite. Her teacher gave her her email address and cell phone number. Mary was being perfectly reasonable to assume that it was permissible to use those. The "simple polite communication" that is missing in this interaction is a statement from the teacher weeks ago that she prefers not to answer emails or phone calls from students.



Good grief. The teacher is being rude, but Mary is about to blow it?! Assuming Mary's other emails are phrased just as respectfully as the one she copied to us, the only person who is about to blow it big time is the teacher, imo.



On this point, I actually agree with Betty. The teacher is sending you a message, Mary, and it's not a good one. She is not giving you the courtesy that you deserve; she is treating you like John treats his Nigerian email spammers. I personally would find her behavior offensive, and assuming a face-to-face conversation didn't resolve the issue, I would start looking for another teacher. It is possible there are good reasons for her failure to respond (though not likely; the spam filter is a feasible explanation for not replying to the email, but you say that you have also left voice mails that have been ignored). Here's my advice: I would urge you strongly to start your lesson by saying something like "I'd like to start by asking about something that's bothering me. I've sent you several emails and left voice mails but haven't gotten a reply. I guess I thought it was okay to contact you that way, but if it isn't, I'd like to know." At that point, you can decide whether she's a good enough teacher during the time you are face to face with her to put up with her off-hours behavior toward you.

Without the face to face talk about the issue, though, much of the reactions given here (including mine) are speculative.

I have to laugh at Betty Patnude's presumptions. Obviously something in my original thread must have rung true with her....hey is that you Mrs. Mackey???!!! why haven't you responded to my emails?

If asking questions outside of lesson time is demanding, then OK I'm demanding. If asking by email for scheduling arrangments is demanding, then OK I'm demanding. But as I said, I like my teacher....so deosn't that mean that we get along otherwise? The fact that I haven't said anything for 2 months about this behavior, doesn't that say something about my patience? guess not (in Betty's world). My teacher has 4 students currently, I'm the only adult -- I will not divulge more details than this.

Teachers here can complain about students and no one ever defends the student (hardly), but anytime someone criticizes a teacher's behavior, all hell breaks loose. I have been as truthful as possible, and yes my email was quite polite -- why wouldn't it be?? I have no reason to expect an answer if my emails are rude, nasty and demanding. I think this forum is very one sided and I believe I will not post here again.

I don't think you can make such blanket statements. Now, I don't think anyone shoudl have gotten angry with you or blamed you for the teacher's behavior (the only thing was the title of this thread which you changed, thank you).

Many here have agreed that you were polite and many teachers here also do answer emails and phone calls and have no problem in doing so.

Many times teachers come here - myself included- to find out the best way to deal with a situation. Sometimes the other posters take sides, but it's not about sides when you're looking for a solution. It's about finding a solution where all sides win.

You've gotten some good sound advice on this thread, and I hope that you can sift through the stuff that doesn't help you. Like any forum, advice given freely is often worth what you pay for it .

I think that's an excellent post, Morodiene.

Cathy

Laughter is a healthier response than getting one's dander up. I should try it myself more often.

Mary, a couple of the posts on this thread do indeed stand out as being quite presumptuous and off-putting, but I think if you go back and look the entire thread over, there's actually a balance of views here and, as Morodiene said, a lot of helpful advice hidden among the chaff.

In any event, please don't let an unpleasant experience in this thread turn you off the teachers forum entirely or PW in general. I would like to encourage you to come over and hang out in the Adult Beginners' Forum. We have a lot of fun there and you can find lots of support.

If you do talk with your teacher about this issue, many of us here would love to hear how the conversation went.

omg

I will hypothesize that your teacher is relatively inexperienced and probably young, and may not yet have a good way of handling things such as e-mails. Music teachers often do not get training so learning how to handle the business end or plan out such things as between-lesson communications may not be thought out. You need to communicate. Get your emotions out of the way first. There is no reason to allow frustration and anger build up, because you do not yet know what is going on. For heaven's sake, talk to your teacher, ask about this. Also ask what she finds acceptable and not acceptable, whether she welcomes you to ask questions about your assignments, what kinds of questions and so on.

To David A about what one might expect from a teacher - yes, of course. But the fact is that we students deal with what is actually there, not what ought to be there, and that's our starting point. If a teacher is doing a good job teaching in the studio, but something isn't working in between, do you throw it all out for that reason? How do you solve a problem?

I'm an adult student and was parent of someone taking lessons who is now an adult. The biggest mistakes I made were in the realm of communication, and assuming things.

I have found that some teachers are simply more organized than others. I don't take it personally when I don't get a prompt email response. I just learn that certain teachers are hard to get in touch with outside of lessons. And in that case, the first thing I do at each lesson is confirm when our next lesson will be.

It would be nice to know in advance a holiday schedule. But I've found that some teachers just aren't ready to commit in advance. They are perhaps dealing with kids in diapers and are somewhat overwhelmed.

Also over the years I've found that some musicians/teachers are a bit scattered. Getting upset over it won't change anything. It goes with the territory I suppose. But as a teacher I respond to communication promptly. And if I'd rather wait until a lesson to discuss a question, I would say so.

FWIW, I'd expect a teacher to respond promptly to matters of administration -- lesson times, payments, etc., but I don't think I'd criticise a teacher for not responding to communications about anything else. I suspect part of the problem is that students and teachers perhaps don't discuss this issue much (if at all) before making a commitment, and so don't know what is reasonable and what isn't.

Hopefully Mary will have an update for us soon. I'm late to the party, but I did wonder if all technically savvy whippersnappers (to quote previous posts) have remembered to check their spam filters????

I actually prefer email contact -- I hate the telephone, and often don't answer. And am very bad about returning calls. I have emails for all my students except the Hispanic one (they don't have email.) I am much more likely to shoot off a quick email in answer to a voice message.

I teach piano. I don't have a "real job." I have spent hours in music stores, trying to find the perfect piece for a student. I have also spent hours on the phone with non-musical mothers who are trying to help their child get un-stuck. And I have even spent plenty of time with my Hispanic student on the phone helping her with homework unrelated to music, because no one in the family spoke English well enough to help her with her math homework or vocabulary definitions.

The thing is, this is my choice. For every 30 minute lesson, I am prepared to spend an additional 30 minutes per week (on average) preparing for the lesson, handling billing or scheduling issues, choosing music, lesson-overrun times, parent queries, etc. But I have time to do this. There are some teachers who feel that 30 minutes per week is what you are paying for, and issues can be discussed then. That is fair, too. My kids have had teachers on both sides. The important thing is to find out which way your teacher is inclined, and then decide if that is what you can live with.

I'm guessing that your teacher wants to be contacted when you are sick or cancelling for some reason, and that is why she gave you the contact info. I hope you've had a chance to discuss the issue with her, and find out if she really intended for it to be an off-of-schedule lesson continuation.

On the teachers' forum, it stands to reason that it is the teacher mentality we are best prepared to defend. But student questions like yours help us to see more sides.

When I have a question between lessons I usually post it here on piano world. You people always have answer for me. Sometimes I get a variety of answers from different view points. That is always interesting and gives me something to think about.

MrHazelton - Quote:"When I have a question between lessons I usually post it here on piano world. You people always have answer for me. Sometimes I get a variety of answers from different view points. That is always interesting and gives me something to think about."

That is a nice comment to hear about Piano Teacher's Forum!

Diverse opinions are helpful in that we can think through where we stand on the item under discussion. When we hear/read something that fits with your thinking, or when it completely disagrees, or there is something new we had not thought about before, it is going to be informational and helpful.

Maybe not today, but in the long run, we will have opportunity to use an idea first heard/read in the forum. I have a large collection of many good ideas that I've tested and decided to use from here and I try to let the teacher I gained something from known that their posting was valuable to me.

I think teachers pride themselves on continuing education and opportunities to grow in their knowledge base of teaching and communicating.

This topic is an example of the difference in teachers philosophies, experiences, communication styles, tolerances and business practices. This topic has accumulated much attention with viewing and posting.

I can hear your appreciation in the way you voiced your post. I'm sure we are all grateful for your message.

Betty Patnude

It is indeed, though I think MrHazelton is not just referring to the Teachers' Forum (where some teachers have actually expressed slight annoyance at "having to" answer questions - not that anyone "has to"). But there are plenty who don't mind answering, so it's all good.

Mary, How did the lesson go today and what did your teacher say about continued communication?

i can understand that a teacher is paid for a certain amount of time and a student hopefully should learn within that parameter.

that said, i encourage my students to call or email.. they never do.

I am an adult student AND I taught for many years. My reaction to this is as follows:

If I had a student who was preparing for an impending competition or solo recital, I was happy to arrange for an extra lesson, or to have them drop by at a pre-arranged time just to play their pieces for me (IN PERSON). But many teachers would not welcome the kind of intrusion you are requesting, and I have to say it sounded really absurd to me. Once a week especially for a beginner is plenty for a lesson, and until you are a more advanced player so that the 'remote' verbal short-hand that a teacher might use to communicate with an intermediate or advanced student, will likely not communicate to you what it needs to. I occasionally email my own teacher with a question but these are limited to ones that can realistically be dealt with remotely - like "which edition of the Debussy did you want me to get?" or "would you please check your edition of the Granados, is that F# in the left hand in measure 89 correct, or a misprint? I don't want to learn it wrong." I would NEVER ask for technique diagnosis via video and if I wanted extra lesson time I would discuss it in person or on the phone to see whether the teacher is a) open to it b) has room in his schedule or c) thinks it would be of use given my present skill level and progress.
Ask in person, do not send an e-mail. My own teacher only checks his email about once a week; sometimes this is on the day of my next lesson so it isn't worth my angst to worry over his not answering one I sent six days earlier! If I really need something I will call him. In my case, I am an advanced player so I know whether I need him or not on most issues. I realize this is harder for a beginner to assess.

SantaFe Player posted from the viewpoint of having been a beginner at one time, now a learning adult and advanced pianist, who has also been a piano teacher with comments that were very pertinent to the topic issues.

The part of his comments said today that I can completely agree with and from which I had posted after seeing how the topic was developing are: "But many teachers would not welcome the kind of intrusion you are requesting, and I have to say it sounded really absurd to me."

It is too bad Mary has taken total offense when so many teachers were reaching out to participate and help her with the topic. Sometimes our efforts do not work because the poster is really not looking for a solution because it is a disguised rant, and as it started, the complaint was directed to all teachers as doing it.

I don't appreciate it when original posters go back to change their postings to be more politically correct. It completely disturbs the reasons why some following teachers would have replied the way them did.

To this day we don't know the outcome of the next lesson where Mary was going to talk in person with the teacher. And, really, we would have all responded better and differently had we known the facts from the teachers point of view.

I think it's a good idea to be reminded, which this topic in hindsight has brought back to me, of our interest in being supportive to our associates in piano teaching as we all know objectivity from the point of view of teaching music and conducting our business, is to our benefit.

Betty Patnude

As I'm not a piano teacher, I may not have much place in this discussion. However, I think Mary's decision to leave the discussion without communicating, after you all have put so much time and effort into her query, speaks for itself.

+1

Frida, what's particularly sad is that she's received a wide range of thoughtful opinions to draw from. Obviously, or at least I think it should be obvious, the teachers here represent a wide variety of teaching styles and backgrounds, so she could draw from those which are most like the situation she finds herself in.

Perhaps, as previously noted, she just needed/wanted to vent, and we were a convenient forum. If so, glad we could help!

Not responding is in itself a kind of response. As you said you like your teacher, then perhaps you simply must accept that this teacher do not respond to emails. That's it. If you suddenly find that unacceptable, you have to move on. It's unlikely your teacher will suddenly respond to email because you ask for it.

Teachers are not lawyers who have system set up to charge you $$$ for reading and responding to your emails. I regularly write emails to my children's teacher, but I never expect a response, more just for her information. I have to say that any teacher who has 20 to 30 students probably have to draw the line when it comes to lesson time outside the class.

So maybe we should change the title of this thread to "OP never responds."

She clearly states that this is her last post. Probably we won't find out what she decided.

Mary,
As you spend at least half an hour per week, actually with your teacher, did it never occur to you to ask if it was ok to email about any specific problem you were having?

If a student of mine, had to resort to an internet forum to air their grievance with me, then I would know for sure that I had failed them.

(It's good to talk )

"If a student of mine, had to resort to an internet forum to air their grievance with me, then I would know for sure that I had failed them."

I don't know, Rob. "It's all about me" is a tempting posture to retreat to, but it's often not the story--- or not the full story. I definitely see Mary playing a role in this, or prosecuting an agenda. It is possible that her teacher is attempting to focus the student's attention on the work at hand, by withholding attention and energy from matters that are beyond her proper concern.

Just guessing at it.

"Teachers here can complain about students and no one ever defends the student (hardly), but anytime someone criticizes a teacher's behavior, all hell breaks loose."

While I don't follow this forum all the time, I see that teachers express a great deal of concern for students (including the present thread) and are often far more tolerant than I would be. So, I think the complaint quoted above is unfair. Maybe a good talk will clear up the tensions Mary feels, but it seems to have become so overblown in such a short time that I don't feel confident that she and Ms. Mackey will have a long future together.

Maybe things will work out better for her a little later, and with a different instructor. I hope so.