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I'm THRILLED to see that some of our teachers on here allow that kind of thing, and even encourage it. I briefly did some teaching in the past, and I greatly regret that I wasn't attuned to that. That failure misses opportunities to tap into the student's innate musicianship and into whatever made him/her want to study piano in the first place.


Yes indeed!


As an adult I did that a couple of times with my teacher and nearly got killed.
One time when I was feeling particularly 'whatever' I said, "C'mon, sit down and try it my way and see how good it feels."
He didn't.


Just great. I'm pleasantly surprised that we're seeing such things being said on here. It looks like teaching has come a nice long way.

P.S. A 'pianist and pedagogue' of some note has this lecture which he calls: "Piano Teaching: Two Centuries of Musical Harassment."
It seems like he's far from alone in questioning some approaches of the past.

Thanks for the replies guys.

It's good to hear teachers and experienced players say that much of this behaviour is not only normal, but acceptable... as a very new pianist I don't usually trust myself enough to play it differently to the sheet music. I ask myself; "Who am I to think I know the song better than the composer?"

I do definetely strive to add my own accents, feel, and personality to the song. Looking back over the last few I've learned - I know that I play the last 6th on every 8th bar quieter than the preceding 2, even though it's not part of the music. In O Sole Mio! I play the eighth note in the bass louder than the trailing notes to give it a little pop. I'm comfortable with this.

However I am very hesitant to change the actual notes played; how long they last, or what fingering is reccommended by the book. I see this as the 'essential template' and have usually strived not to change it, even though my instincts may lead me to do so. I rarely misread in the sense that I fail to identify a note's length/position on the piano, but I may notice these things but subconsciously play it slightly differently because I prefer it that way.

Off the subject but maybe very slightly relevant....

When I first saw the word "Citadel," in my mind I pronounced it the way your USER NAME looks: SY-tay-dle

When I heard the right way to say Citadel, I didn't keep saying it "my" way.

P.S. This is on my mind because tomorrow I'm meeting a relative who went to school at the Citadel.

Another similar point of view from a teacher:

Specifically, when a student is playing something that (almost) everybody knows, if they correct a simplified version to make it closer to the real thing then I not only tolerate but encourage it. Correcting misprints (which is how the student perceives what they are doing, if indeed they notice anything at all) is sometimes necessary.

With particularly bright young students, or always with older students, I will point out to them exactly what they've done to improve the arrangement, and demonstrate the difference. I will often say that the publisher would have preferred to print it correctly but didn't want to make it hard to read for inexperienced players.

You're making me feel very happy.


Beautiful!!!

Sounds like you're on the right track Sytadel It's great that you add nuances to O sole mio. The score is just a map for the music it's not the music. Messing with the template after you have read and more or less learnt the written version could teach you a lot.

In a book like Alfred's a creative person could try many versions of some pieces. I'd say do this if you want to, even if you are altering notes as you'll probably learn even more that way. As a beginner you are not just learning to read, you are also learning to listen, to discover how melody and harmony work (theory), to imagine/hear music in your head and to be a little creative. Making your own versions of pieces (or making up your own) develops all these skills.

If you really want to ramp up your learning you could try to notate your altered versions with pencil and music paper, or with a music writing program. This is a good way to improve your reading!

By the way, fingering I leave as is.

William S. Newman describes most 'book' fingering as the work of a 'dollar-a-page man'.

Yes -- I didn't catch that!
Nobody should much hesitate to change a fingering.
Fingerings, even when indicated by the composer, are generally nothing but "serving suggestions."

Rubbish. Fingering by the composer is close to sacrosanct! Especially if it is Chopin.

I would bet that even Chopin would disagree with that.

I'd allow that an arguable exception would be the ETUDES. Arguably but not certainly.

But aside from that, I feel quite sure that composers (including Chopin, maybe especially Chopin) would realize that different people's hands are different, different people's abilities are different, PLUS......

Different interpretations might call for different fingerings. For that reason, even the composer might well have used different fingerings at different times, even in passages where fingerings are marked.

I get the feeling you and I might be disagreeing quite a bit.
But please don't take it personally. I sure won't.

It's obvious you have no idea what Chopin (or Bach for that matter) did for fingering.

I think something else is obvious: You're kind of rigid in judging some things, including other people.

Listen, post less - learn more OK?

keyboardklutz Online content
7000 Post Club Member

Thanks

LOOK.
A post like this (i.e. mine).......



......is no reason to tell someone that he basically doesn't know anything about the subject.

It's a DISAGREEMENT. That's all.
I think you're basically wrong, you think I'm totally wrong. But neither of us can claim to know "the one true way."

Sytadel, Pianists...
I wrote "By the way, fingering I leave as is." I had originally written "fingering I would leave as it is." Now I'm wondering why I changed it (often I read through at the end and delete a bit...).

So what I mean is that when you are teaching yourself and learning from Alfred's book one, using the fingering given is a pretty good idea I assumed that those who have been playing for a longish time would know that I was refering to the case of the OP. Being specific is always a good idea.

When I wrote that post I actually got out my copy of Afred's book1 and checked a few songs, and the fingering is fine. My comments and suggestions were considered, but it's up to you whether to use any ideas. So Sytadel I hope that helps Keep up the fast learning! O sol mio looks like a nice piece by the way.

And the debate is a reflection of the passion and interest of pianists here - I like it very much (even if it was an accident to spark this flurry). Oops

Well I certainly don't mind.

If it's of any interest I did my learning before my posting. (degree, performance diploma, teaching certificate.)

I don't think you realize how 'funny' you're being.....