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Hi all, I'm in search for my very first DP after a decade's absence from playing piano. I have no experience with DPs save for testing potential purchases out in the showrooms. After a read through these forums and a few visits to my local dealer, I had narrowed it down to the HP207, KR107 and CLP380 but was told by the dealer that the KR107 is discontinued. So this leaves me with only 2 choices as of right now. I'm very sorry to all you posters who read questions for these 2 instruments on a regular basis. To the best of my knowledge, I am not repeating any previously answered questions, although I apologise beforehand if I have. Now down to business.

What I am looking for first and foremost is authentic sound and feel. I played on a Kawai upright prior to taking a prolonged hiatus from piano and really loved it. I did not get a chance to test out a HP207 but my dealer will be bringing one into the showroom tomorrow and I'll try to go in for a quick play. I have tested out the CLP380 on 2 occasions. It's a beautiful instrument with a very impressive set of speakers but I felt that it was very bright and the keys very light compared to the HP203 (which I tried out as a substitute for the missing 207). I understand the on the 207, there is a 'piano designer' feature that allows the player to customise the sound of the instrument for solo/ensemble play. Is there a similar feature on the Yamaha? I feel if I were to go with the Yamaha, I would need to do SOMETHING to mellow the sound a little. It seems like a very pop orientated sound and frankly seemed quite harsh for classical music. Having said that, I will mostly be using my DP as vocal accompaniment. I plan on dipping my feet into home recording using a MIDI interface and Macbook Pro. I'll probably throw in some acoustic guitars [and beats from my DP.] I am really not sure if a mellower sound is more desirable for my needs or a brighter, clearer one. Perhaps it's a matter of preference? It's not like I'll be playing with a full backing band, so I don't need to be cutting through all the other instruments. On the other hand, I will not be playing a lot of classical. I will probably focus on jazz when I'm doing solo and folk/lo-fi when I accompany myself. Since I prefer the sound of the Roland and it has the designer feature, I think it has a slight advantage here. But please feel free to offer your opinions and knowledge on this topic since I have very little experience in this area.

Price is not really an issue, although please don't suggest any grand digitals or CVPs as space is a bit of an issue for me since I live in the middle of the city. I do not feel it would be worth paying an extra GBP1.4k for the CLP380 if it does not have a customisation system of some description, since that hefty price tag would essentially be for a fancy polished cabinet and speaker system (which I don't particularly need since I will be using a set of open back Senn's) and technology moves forward so quickly that I feel I would probably upgrade my DP either to another more up to date one or an acoustic within 5-7 years.

Any thoughts on these two or similar instruments would be very welcome and much appreciated.

One last thing. Do any 207 owners feel that the keys on the 207 make a rather distracting thump? I heard it on the 203, will keep an open ear for it on the 207 when I try it out tomorrow. I hear it on the 380 too, but to a much lesser extent.

Have you thought about the Yamaha CP-300 stage piano?

I use one and I'm very pleased with it's performance...the built in stereo speaker system is very powerful, it has excellent sounds, and a lovely action.

It also has a nice clean appearance/design, although you may be looking for a "living room" instrument...this one is not, but it does have a nice, simple, contemporary look.

It has a five-band master equalizer, MIDI, 16 track sequencer, usb terminal, pitch bend and modulation wheels, four pedal connectors, and balanced XLR outputs.

It is a big improvement over the earlier P-200, and P-250.

Just thinking a bit out the box.

Snazzy

I appreciate your input, snazzyplayer. It's funny you should suggest a stage piano. At the beginning of my search I really had my heart set on a Roland RD700GX. Partly because of its portability, since I don't often stay in the same city for more than a couple of years and although I would enjoy having something relatively portable, I think I would rather have a more furniture style instrument. Let's face it, I still have to move other pieces of furniture every time I leave for a new home, so what's one more thing? Plus, I can hide all the ugly wires from my living room setup behind the piano.

No problem, TGP, believe it or not, I bought the CP-300 not for it's portability, but it's sound and features, especially the pitch bend and mod wheels, and, of course, it's terrific piano voice.

The speakers, being built in, minimize the spaghetti jungle considerably...they are pretty good (actually, they are awesome)...if you haven't tried one, do yourself a favor, and perhaps it might appeal to you as it did to me.

The RD700GX is a seriously nice instrument...a friend of mine has one, and it is a very satisfying play. He absolutely loves it.

The CP-300's speaker placement, make you feel like you're playing a console.

All the best of luck with your quest....there are a lot of excellent choices out there.

Snazzy

I was just about to suggest the RD700GX. I'm sure Roland must make a console version of the RD700. Look to see which has the same "PHA II with escapement and ivory feel" keys. The RD700 was selling for $2,200 here this last weekend.

I do agree about the CP300 having nice, powerful speakers but I thought the RD700 had better keys

There's also the Roland V-Piano which doesn't need more space and will certainly fulfill all your criteria regarding customization. Have you tried it? It's expensive though!
http://www.roland.com/V-Piano/

If you plan to go Midi with a laptop, you can always choose a software package such as Garritan or Pianoteq for sound generation, also affording you nearly infinite possibilities to find the sound you like.

I do also prefer the Roland sound and believe that the HP207 is an excellent instrument. Please notice though that the HP307 seems to be already available in Japan and may soon be available elsewhere. If I understanbd correctly it will have an improved keyboard (PHA III). (There is a recent thread here calle Roland products 2010).

TheGlassPassenger, as you've seen from my other post I'm also considering the HP207. The CLP-380 is way out of my budget.

Anyway, I think you should definitely try out the HP207. As soon as I started playing it I fell in love with its keyboard. As for the sound, I think many times the showrooms aren't the best places to try it out, so you should bring your headphones.

I think the main differences between those two DPs are that the CLP-380 has 5 level sampling against the 4 level of the HP207 and the CLP-380 as a Natural Wood keyboard instead of the synthetic ivory keyboard of the HP207. The CLP-380 also has a better amplifier system and the Instrumental Active Field Control (iAFC) techonology that outputs sound picked up by built-in microphones together with the Clavinova's internal sound through rear speakers, making automatic adjustments to create a richer sound that best matches the acoustic characteristics of the room you're playing in. The CLP-380 also has more voices.

My opinion is that the CLP-380 is a bit overpriced, but I've never played one so I can't really comment on its value.

Thanks for coming over to my thread and giving me you thoughts! I'll be heading out in about an hour to go try out the 207. MY experience with the 380 was that it seemed to have better specs but perhaps only on paper. Some of its defining characteristics, wooden keys for one, seem to sound great on paper, but in actuality did no feel so great when I played. Correct me if I'm wrong but the point of wooden keys is to more faithfully mimic the feel of an acoustic, but Yamaha DPs, usually be very light with their key action, put these wooden keys in there for nothing because it still feels like playing room temperature butter.

I am not sure how much credit should be given to the 380's 5 level sampling. It's my understanding that Yamaha, even in its flagship model, only samples 50 keys from a CFIII whereas Roland samples all 88 keys from a Steinway (don't know which model, they seem to keep it very hush hush.) So exactly what does this 5 level sampling mean? Sorry, I'm not very in tune with this DP jargon.

This iAFC thing sounds a little OTT for me. :P If I can't hear the difference (and I'm pretty sure I won't be able to) it seems like a lot more to pay for wooden keys that don't feel great, bright sound with (apparently) no mentionable ability to customise, better speakers and a shiny cabinet.

And thank you for your advice about the headphones! I'll be sure to carry my noise isolating Shures with me when I go.

I hope your search ends well!

Ahh, the HP307. Yes, I did read that thread yesterday in an attempt to find out what foiled my dream of owning a KR107. As far as I know the 307 simply has PHAIII. Looks and sounds the same. Comes in different colours with slightly different modelling at the front legs. The Japanese website says that it includes a new 'split piano' feature, which I thought the HP207 had already? That's not so important though. Website doesn't seem to mention much about other new features. Nothing groundbreaking it seems and probably coming in at a much heftier price.

I suppose my search of a DP is a matter of MILD urgency. I simply would like to get one before Christmas. Perhaps if the 307 is out in South East Asia over the summer, I will go home and purchase one for my permanent residence.

Thanks for letting me know!



Thanks for your suggestion! That's a very expensive piano and it's probably a little too advanced for me. I like to keep in mind that while an acoustic can go on for at least 2 or 3 decades, technology moves so quickly that current models will become obsolete in not much time at all. I'd rather buy something with fewer bells and whistles, then I won't feel so bad when in a year or two's time something new comes out and overtakes my DP by 10 years worth of technology. :P HP207 was out in '07 and HP307 is already out in Japan at the end of '09. That's not even 3 years. Thankfully 307 does not seem to be a revolution of any kind, so I will not beat myself over its release in Europe should I decide to buy a 207.

As I previously mentioned. It would be nice to get a console DP, rather than a stage style piano. It's always nice to be able to hide my living room wires from tv, video game consoles, sound system etc behind a hefty piece of furniture.

I'm not sure what brand OTT is, but in order to make iAFC work properly you need two things:

1. A room with some kind of echo, like a living room with wooden walls.
2. You need to turn up those 2 (3?, Spatial/Large & ?) iAFC setting to quite high values for the iAFC to work. The factory setting is very low (10 out of 127, I think).

If you were interested in the KR series, you might want to check out the RM-700 if they have it in your area.

I also found that the Rolands did have a bit of a thump, but when playing through the speakers, it was not as noticeable. The action was really nice on the RM-700.

I found the Yamaha clp 380 to be quite a bit mellower than the other models. I thought they were doing that to respond to the critics that call the Yamaha sound too bright.

If you are playing jazz, that Yamaha sound will probably fit very nicely.

I kind of wonder about a player
who is not satisfied with a
CLP 380. This is a top-of-the-line
digital piano, essentially a concert
grand. I have an expensive
acoustic upright piano in storage--
a similar model today would be
in the ~$20,000 price range. But
it stays in storage, because
I find my $600 economy model
digital better for practical,
everyday playing. I can play
anything on it, from jazz
improvisation to big concertos.

Actually, the Yamaha "sound" works very well for more than Jazz. It also has the perfect tone for classical...my opinion. It sounds very nice for pop music. A bit of an all rounder, so to speak.

The action of any piano, digital or otherwise, is a highly personal thing, and although, with an acoustic this can be altered considerably, you're pretty much stuck with what you get with a digital.

That's why it's important to sit and play the instrument for some time, and, if possible, do so over a number of days. Take in your favorite music and play. Consider how your wrists feel after playing for an extended period. Is the action too short a throw (do the keys bottom out too quickly)? Is it noisy (clickity-clacky)?

I have never bought a digital on price, except to shop among the same brand/model at different dealers...buying a piano is an emotional and a physical experience, so make sure you're looking after both sides of the coin.

Buy in haste...repent at leisure.

Snazzy

Have you experimented with the clp380's setup parameters? I have an older CLP970A and have found that the sound can be (to my ears) improved considerably by setting the tone (or whatever it's called) to "mellow", and adding a bit of soundboard reverb. Also, the keyboard touch has a couple of parameters that can make the keyboard respond a bit "heavier".

+1

One problem with auditioning digitals is that many people who buy them are also new to playing. That places them more at the mercy of manufacturers' advertising and reps' sales pitches.

True words, FogVilleLad, but not only digital buyers are new to playing.

I've gone along to assist several different people who were buying an acoustic, and acted as a complete neophyte during the sales presentation, occasionally asking dumb questions, and all the while listening to the biggest pile of malarkey that could ever spew from a salesperson's mouth.

Then I would make several comments that left no doubt I actually knew more about the instrument than they did.

Got some good deals that way.

Just because it's top of the line doesn't make it right for every player. I am not unsatisfied with a CLP380. I simply prefer the sound and feel of the 207. Just like you preder your $600 DP to you $20,000 acoustic. I went and tried both out about an hour ago. One of my initial questions was whether the Yamaha could be customised. I found out today that it can indeed be customised for your own needs. Brilliance can be toned up and down, which I really appreciated. Still, I preferred the sound of the 207. Although the ivory feel of the CLP380 was better than the HP207. The action however felt better on the 207 for me and the wooden keys on the 380 made a very minimal impact on the feel in my opinion. Still much too light.

I'm afraid I seriously couldn't justify that extra 1.4k for the CLP380 for a fancier sound system, shiny cabinet and more voices since I just really liked the Roland's sound which can be customised quite well for different needs. Perhaps if the CLP380 were just a little heavier keyed, I'd pick it up, but as it stands all those extra sounds and the great looking cabinet and speaker system aren't worth it. I can practice with my headphones on (which I actually prefer to do) and not worry about the speaker quality. So I decided to go with the HP207, it seems to cater to all my needs for a more attractive price. :P

Thank you everyone for you input. I really appreciate it.

The savvy shopper gets the good deals. Good for you.

On the acoustic forum we regularly see posts from neophytes who have been bamboozled by reps. Women, in particular, seem to receive this treatment and, I think, also tend to hear higher price quotes.

This Yammie fan says that you did everything right and expressed your preference in a way which can guide others. All the best with your wonderful new DP.