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I finally got the check yesterday, December 5 for tuning a nice RX-3 in a restaurant on October 29. They don't use it that much. They have a special Jazz event ever 2-3 months and the pianist insists it be tuned that day or he won't play. It was sharp then and badly so although I don't remember how sharp. It will probably be sometime in January for the next event. Here goes a 20% pitch raise again which I can't charge extra for. I wouldn't even bother to suggest the get a humidity control system since I know for sure they would never water it.

All they do is leave it open. The lid will start warping unless they close it more often.

Bill,

I was offered an account here in G.R. The piano is an Imperial Bose. I turned it down for 2 reasons. They are notorious for paying 3+ months after the tuning (my biggest reason). I was told this by the current technician who offered it to me. The other reason is that there is about an 11 second echo delay, difficult tuning conditions and I guess a 3rd one too. It needs a boat load of work and would be nearly impossible to voice under those types of conditions. So, someone else can have it.

BTW, what do you guys use to measure RH? I looked at some different guages in the 50-75$ range and they varied from each other in readings as much as 15%. When I asked a freind of mine who works in a lab what he would recommend, he said only a sling hygrometer. He said the digital meters under 500 bucks are inconsistant and unreliable because they do not use temperature readings on an evaporator bulb.

This will sound like heresy, but I stopped measuring humidity over twenty years ago. I pretty much know what the seasons do to indoor humidity. I don't fight the pitch swings as Bill Bremmer mentioned. Folks with the knowhow have a much better idea of what their pianos live in than I would doing a twice yearly spot check. People who don't know what they have for average humidity, don't care and wouldn't service the humidity control systems anyway.

Everyone's happy most of the time.

Scroll up to near the top Emmery to see what I use. I posted it there.

I keep it with me for those occasional pesky calls saying, "you were just here (2 months ago) and now my piano sounds horrible! I show them in the piano where I wrote the temp and humidity level's as 85/72. Today, it is 55/34 and quite flat. Normal weather patterns... About half of what it was back then. Proof to them then, what the humidity was, is and how it affects their piano. I also like the records for myself when a new music director comes along. I can point to the last 15 years and say, here it is bud... 75 % in August, 22 % in December. See why it should be tuned it more often?

I keep a record of humdiity for same reasons as Jerry. Most people don't have a clue how important humidity control is to piano stabilty. The internet provides us a blessing for humidity education. We can tell the customer to check any makers site and check their recommendation for humidity. No muss, no fuss, no argument.

Great recommendations, guys. I have had that recommended to me before, especially my the dealer I work for. That will be my New Year's resolution. Record Temp and RH on every piano. School teachers have not accepted the explanation in the past. They heard me say it yes but they called another tuner the next time. I still do most of the schools though. I only wish they would pay up faster.

Yes, getting paid from some schools can take forever. I get open purchase orders for the school year from the schools where I tune. If I don't receive them in the mail by the middle of August, I call the business offices to get the info. All the schools in my area are under new regulations from New York State...new payment procedures, and a bunch of checks and balances...which means it takes even longer now than years past. But, at least I know I'll get paid.

So, back to humidity...tuned a Baldwin Hamilton in a school (the last tuning on Friday). It used to be in the vocal music room, used daily...but now it's stored somewhere and pulled out occasionally when they can't find another one to use. It's probably stored next to a heater. It's always been a strange one, with almost no sustain in the octave around the break between treble and upper treble. Every time I tune it (which has been 3 times since 2001...so you can just imagine )...I try to figure out what's wrong with it.

Friday, I found the reason...the bridge is cracked on the underneath side...or, now that I think of it, it may be the bridge cap that has separated...(did they use bridge caps on mid-70's Hamiltons?). Anyway...not sure about a repair, as the crack/separation is directly behind the keybed...no easy access without taking the piano apart...and I know from the dollar amount of their purchase order that it will NEVER happen. So, back into storage it will go for another 4 or 5 years...sigh

That doesn't seem like too bad of a unit compared to others I have seen. I happen to be a stickler for closely looking at specs for things like this.

One thing I hate seeing is the word "accuracy" by itself since its so misleading to the average consumer and is usually a devious attempt at making something seem more accurate than it is. Companies use what is called "specmanship" to make a product appear to be better than what it is and they actually hire spec specialists to do the smoke and mirrors work.
Quality gauges and such normally have specs that note resolution/repeatability/accuracy(+/- xxx relative to a calibration standard). "Accuracy" when noted as a +/- % usually has a reference as to whether it is based on overall range or as a % of actual reading. Big difference if your reading 20% RH for instance....it could be 17% or 23% with the former referencing or it could be 20.6%-19.4% based on the latter (number displayed). If you have to assume its one or the other because of specmanship, than it is usually the least accurate of the two IMHO.

To help sell the idea of better accuracy than what exists, the gauges often display meaningless resolution. How meaningful is a displayed 1/2 or a tenth of a % if you have +/- 3% deviancy O/A?
On the same note, there are cheap micrometeres out there that show 10 thousandths of an inch resolution yet the threads on the thimble have 1-2 thou play in them (looseness).

You're right Emmery. Most of what I have seen including mine, says accurate to within +or- 3 %. Well, okay, which one is it? Is what I always wonder... Even then, I write what it says figuring, well, close enough. It's still BAD even if it is 17 %.

Well, today, I found an even worse reading. 8.4 % RH give or take 3 %..... I hope it's give... Man! No wonder the piano was 1/4 tone flat from being tuned in October!

Jerry I have the same type humidity gauge, Mannix. I've been having my doubts about it recently. Seems to consistantly read lower in extreme dry conditions than other sources, usually by 10 points. Don't know how to verify the thing or to determine it has lost it's electronic mind.

I've been wondering the same thing Sam. I used to have an inexpensive unit from Radio Shack that seemed to pretty much match similar products in the same room. This one is all over the board but, in reading about this one, it does go into the lower extremes more than the less expensive brands do. Do you think maybe the others were just cheap and this is more accurate or are we both nuts? Well, the last part we already know!

Seriously, do you think ANY of those sensors are less accurate than the one in a humidistat?

Do you trust the tire gauge on the air hose?

I hate to think my 80 bucks was thrown in a rathole. I have a $12 unit in my shop that makes more sense. But I have another of the same brand in the shop that's more fancy and it reads dry also. In the end if the mid range of piano is in the cellar and bass still up there is a humidity issue. Numbers is just numbers.

The piano I tuned today in the room where it read 8.4 %, I had tuned during the last week in October. At that time, it read, oh, I forget now but, something like, 35% I think? As I said, today that piano was 1/4 tone flat so there is an obvious very serious humidity issue going on there. I know with my old unit, it would be reading right around 18-22 % RH on colder days like we are having here right now so, maybe this $80 one is just more accurate?

On the other hand, to make a point of how important controlled humidity levels are for pianos, I tuned a Kawai GM-10 in August on campus that is located in a humidity controlled environment at a pretty steady 46%. Today, the temp was 64/46 RH. The piano was still dead on pitch and very nicely in tune yet. I did tune it as a few unison's and some octaves had drifted a little bit but not much. It didn't take me more than 15 minutes to tune the whole piano either.

Now that I think about it, I used the same $80 unit for both measurements. I could feel the comfort of the 46 % RH. We probably both have more accurate units now. I'm going with that story. I can't bear the thought of chucking $80 out the window for nothing can you?

I'm glad most of you have confirmed what I have always believed.I remember before my aunt gave me her piano,I would play it when I went to visit,in winter and in the summer.She never got it tuned the whole time she owned it.I could hear the difference in pitch and the tuning conditions every time.No one else in the family could understand what I was hearing.

She must have had it tuned in the winter last time she did,because it would be in good tune around the holidays,and it would go sharp in the summer,and most of the treble unisons would be beating.

Yes the digital jauges say dry and more dry that it is, I belive they are relatively OK when in the 30 80% range.

On the opposite the classical hygrometer with a hair, reads more moisture than there is generally.
Hence old instructions in ^pianos as :

"keep the piano in a 50% to 70% RH " may read as 40-60% with a digital one those days.

Anyway any reading of HR which is not related to the temperature is relatively useless.

Petrof gave tables of acceptable ranges for their pianos, it goes as low as 32% for a medium , not too hot temperature.

My workshop deshumidifier is driven with an hygrostat that use a horse hair (long , around 25 cm scale)

It send dry air up to 14 % RH and just sightly warm.
just enough to lower a soundboard panel to 4.5 moisture.

Then the digital hygrometer reads about 6% there may be something with the capacitor film.

But they are very useful for more standard HR.

Also, if outside it is very cold, the external air may well once warmed, contain zero moisture, while outside it can be read as 50% , you have to recall that it mean 50 % of the possible moisture in air FOR THAT TEMPERATURE.

Then may be even 8.5 % indoors is possible.

BEST WISHES TO ALL !

Looks like you know a thing or twoo about those sensors, please elaborate if you can (indeed I believe all cheap models have the same cheap sensor !)

I think the only way to test the digital hygrometers for accuracy is to compare to actual readings from a sling hygrometer/psychrometer. Most of the wet/dry bulb hygrometers are usually accurate and repeatable to within =/- 1 %....they unfortunately involve more work to operate than just a push of a button.