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#1318827 - 12/05/09 09:09 AM La Campanella fingering problem
0362746634 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3
Hello.
I have been practicing La Campanella for quite some time and the result is tremendously amazing. You see, the problem when you're getting better at something is that you will find more imperfections that seemingly endless. Here are some parts that i have problems with to play it fast. By the way, the bar numbers might be inaccurate but it's around there as this song has repetitions.

Bar 67&68
My fingering-RH(3.2)(4)x3(3.1)(4)x2
(repeating)

Bar 76-78-RH
Its running notes so should i choose the same fingering as i do for chromatic scale. Because in a very fast motion, it seems impossible

I,ve really tried my best to improve. But because of these small parts, it mocks my desire to play it with perfection.
So i really hope someone could help me find the best fingering which facilitates movement and speed.
TQ.

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#1318953 - 12/05/09 01:07 PM Re: La Campanella fingering problem [Re: 0362746634]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19596
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: 0362746634
....Bar 67&68
My fingering-RH(3.2)(4)x3(3.1)(4)x2
(repeating)....

I've never played the piece but I don't hesitate to start the replies even when I don't know anything. ha
I figure I'm keeping the thread warm till the experts arrive.

That said, if I'm understanding the measures you're talking about and what your notation means, I think I can tell readily that you are simply giving yourself a very hard time with that fingering.

I think you're talking actually about bars 66-67 (the bars are numbered in my edition).
You mean you use 3-2 in the right hand (followed by 4) 3 times?? I would think that puts terrible tension on the hand because of the STRETCH that occurs the 2nd and 3rd times.

Why not put the thumb on the lower note each time after the first one in each group?

Hope this maybe helpful.

OK, let's see about the next one.....
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1318958 - 12/05/09 01:15 PM Re: La Campanella fingering problem [Re: 0362746634]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19596
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: 0362746634
Bar 76-78-RH
Its running notes so should i choose the same fingering as i do for chromatic scale. Because in a very fast motion, it seems impossible...

Passages like that are why I don't play the piece. ha
I just can't riff off stuff like that very well.

But I might be able to help with the fingering, because this is a general thing for such very fast chromatic passages.
Some people just take the "regular" chromatic fingering and are able to do OK with it, but I think most people do something like:
On the way "up," the next 3 notes after each G are 2-3-4 rather than 3-1-3.
Same thing in reverse on the way down.

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#1318994 - 12/05/09 02:11 PM Re: La Campanella fingering problem [Re: Mark_C]
Frozenicicles Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/09
Posts: 1324
Loc: Canada
Fingering is a very individual thing, and this isn't a piece that I've attempted myself. One thing that I can recommend is to choose a fingering that works up to tempo, hands together. I used to always work out my fingerings hands separately and slowly but they fell apart when I put the hands together and increased my tempo. Sometimes a fingering that seems awkward when played slowly and hands separately works wonderfully in the end. If you have access to several editions of the piece, check what the editors have suggested and try them out. Hope this helps!

Edit to say: Don't beat yourself up too much over playing it with absolute perfection. Even Yundi Li made a few slips while performing this, on the video that I've seen on youtube.


Edited by Frozenicicles (12/05/09 02:12 PM)

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#1319321 - 12/06/09 12:27 AM Re: La Campanella fingering problem [Re: 0362746634]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19596
Loc: New York
So......the experts don't want to show up?

I think you're pretty safe going with what I said. smile

BTW......why WERE you putting your 2nd finger on those notes?

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#1319577 - 12/06/09 01:52 PM Re: La Campanella fingering problem [Re: Mark_C]
Fredil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/25/08
Posts: 216
Shoot! Wrong topic. shocked


Edited by Fredil (12/06/09 01:52 PM)

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#1319581 - 12/06/09 01:58 PM Re: La Campanella fingering problem [Re: Fredil]
Philip Lu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/25/09
Posts: 294
Loc: Hacienda Heights, CA
"Bar 67&68
My fingering-RH(3.2)(4)x3(3.1)(4)x2" = 952.32!
_________________________
"Nie Dam Sie!"

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#1319583 - 12/06/09 02:00 PM Re: La Campanella fingering problem [Re: Mark_C]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13757
Loc: Iowa City, IA
The problem is that a lot of Liszt editions, particularly the one on IMSLP, don't have measure numbers, and it's time-consuming and a bit of a pain to count through it on a computer screen.

People tend to have better luck when they can post a picture of the score or link the IMSLP score and reference a particular page number, staff, and measure.

Originally Posted By: MarkCannon
So......the experts don't want to show up?

I think you're pretty safe going with what I said. smile

BTW......why WERE you putting your 2nd finger on those notes?
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1319695 - 12/06/09 05:45 PM Re: La Campanella fingering problem [Re: Fredil]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19596
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Fredil
Shoot! Wrong topic. shocked

Darn, missed what you said!!! smile

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#1319696 - 12/06/09 05:46 PM Re: La Campanella fingering problem [Re: Philip Lu]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19596
Loc: New York
You're kidding!!!
You mean you also spread out 3-2 all those times?

I can't imagine how anyone could do that without causing entire-body catatonia. ha

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#1320503 - 12/07/09 04:35 PM Re: La Campanella fingering problem [Re: 0362746634]
Hakki Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2383
I have played the piece. It is one of my favorites.
I wouldn't suggest using 2.3 3 times either, since it would cause a lot of tension. Instead try changing fingers as 2.34, 1.35, 2.45, 1.34, 1.3435 or any other pattern that fits your hand. Fingering is always an individual thing.

For the fast chromatic passage I use:

(excluding the first 4 or 5 notes starting with e or d# and starting with e natural)

123-1234-123-12-3432-1321-4321-321






Edited by Hakki (12/07/09 04:43 PM)
_________________________
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#1320511 - 12/07/09 04:42 PM Re: La Campanella fingering problem [Re: Hakki]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19596
Loc: New York
What's wrong with 3-2 on the first member of the group, followed by two 3-1's?
I thought this was the obvious and easiest fingering, but maybe not....

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#1320529 - 12/07/09 05:12 PM Re: La Campanella fingering problem [Re: Mark_C]
Hakki Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2383
Actually there is nothing wrong.
My suggested fingering is suitable if someone wants to emphasize a nice legato melody of the descending sixteenth notes without using the pedal.
_________________________
Put in one of IMO, I think, to me, for me... or similar to all sentences I post

http://www.youtube.com/user/hakkithepianist

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#1320535 - 12/07/09 05:21 PM Re: La Campanella fingering problem [Re: Hakki]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19596
Loc: New York
I don't think you need to use pedal to do it with that other fingering either.....

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#1328864 - 12/19/09 05:40 AM Re: La Campanella fingering problem [Re: Mark_C]
0362746634 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3
sorry for being idle... anyways, tx a lot all of you. i really appreciate it. for the chromatic scale problem, i'll follow hakki's advice.

tq =)

uhh.. although there is 1 more part i figure i play it quite unstable. its the measure/bar 50 to 59(around there-my sheet piece also doesnt written the measures) anyways, this part rite i played 1-1-5 on the right hand but it sounded quite unstable. its written here the fingering should be 2-1-5. well, as i'm not an expert, i felt that thats crazy and much more impossible using that fingering.

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#1328865 - 12/19/09 05:44 AM Re: La Campanella fingering problem [Re: Frozenicicles]
0362746634 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3
Are you really sure yundi lee played wrongly?? iknow there was 1 small part- last part- but thats all i heard!

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#1383022 - 02/25/10 09:57 PM Re: La Campanella fingering problem [Re: 0362746634]
chopstxnrice Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/04/10
Posts: 3
i'm working on this piece and just got to this section as well. I have been experimenting for the past 10 or 15 minutes, 2-1-5 seems pretty tough, but it's do-able at a slow tempo right now. I feel like my piano keys don't return fast enough for this to work at a fast tempo. I also don't think 1-1-5 will be practical up to tempo either. Anyone else have suggestions?

Also, I was wondering how you handled the previous section with the right hand octaves 1-3-5.. are you using a lot of wrist movement (radial and ulnar flexions), or are you keeping your wrist a little more straight and moving your entire hand? I feel like the flexions might hurt your wrist after a while.

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