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#1318664 - 12/04/09 10:31 PM Opinions on a V vs X stand for an 88-key Keyboard
smithster Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 16

I'm leaning towards the Ultimate VS-80B as a general purpose stand. Big selling point is its portability.

http://www.ultimatesupport.com/core/media/media.nl?id=859&c=320443&h=cfea3e8fd3bd0874b430

Any thoughts/opinions would be highly appreciated.

Cheers.

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#1318680 - 12/04/09 11:15 PM Re: Opinions on a V vs X stand for an 88-key Keyboard [Re: smithster]
setchman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 166
If it were me I'd choose the Ultimate over the X stands. I know it's a personal thing but because I'm always sitting at the keyboard the X-style stand always seemed to get in the way of my legs. If you're going to be sitting and standing, I guess that may be less of an issue for you.

I have an X stand which I no longer use and am using the Quiklok WS-550 now. I love the freedom my legs have underneath the keyboard. It looks like the Ultimate would be similar that way.

I've not used that stand personally, but I've seen them and they do look like very nice stands.
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Kawai K-3
Yamha Motif XS8
BlackGrand.com

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#1318713 - 12/05/09 12:12 AM Re: Opinions on a V vs X stand for an 88-key Keyboard [Re: setchman]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
From the picture in your link, I would just want to be sure that there is enough room for the pedals, without cramping your style. I find the X-style stands really irritating, as they rock like a see-saw if your hands are alternating left and right with heavy chords (or not-so-heavy).

I use a table-like stand, where the downward force is met by the ground, and whilst it's ugly, it gets the job done. (See link below) The Quiklok mentioned by setchman looks useful too.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PlatformStd/

Happy searching,

Jonathan

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#1318716 - 12/05/09 12:20 AM Re: Opinions on a V vs X stand for an 88-key Keyboard [Re: setchman]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
I had an Ultimate, sold it. They fold down really small for transort, everything fits inside the center column. They work well on a hard and flat floor, not so well are carpet. X Stands have a wider base and work anyplace. Ultimate stands are taller, good for two tier setups or for standing

The Ultimate stand's center column extends upward past the top of the keyboard. Some people might not like this. A keyboard on an Ulimate stand can not be pushed against a wall.

Each has pros and cons.

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#1318829 - 12/05/09 09:10 AM Re: Opinions on a V vs X stand for an 88-key Keyboard [Re: 10fingers]
gdguarino Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/20/07
Posts: 317
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: 10fingers
I find the X-style stands really irritating, as they rock like a see-saw if your hands are alternating left and right with heavy chords (or not-so-heavy).

I'm going to assume you mean an X stand with only one set of "uprights", meaning that each of the two pieces of the stand is a Roman Numeral I. Those are very unstable and I recommend against them.

I use a Quiklok X stand with two uprights, meaning that each half of the stand is a Roman Numeral II, kind of.

It would be something like this:
Quiklok Heavy Duty X

I stand when I play. I have had a stand like this for almost twenty years, and have used it on (conservatively) 1700 gigs. I can say without hesitation that I have had no see-sawing, and that's not for lack of hard playing. I especially like the deep "footprint" of the stand. The bottom pieces are 27" long; I never feel like the stand is going to tip over backwards.

It has suffered the insults of various vehicles and narrow corridors as well as weather and age without complaint. I can only hope they still make them so well.

I have no experience with a V stand. The first thing I'd want to do would be to put a comparable keyboard on it and see how easily it could be tilted "back at an angle". The geometry of it worries me too. It looks like you have to have a lot of faith in the connections at the hinge point and the rigidity of the unreinforced uprights.

From a gigging musician's point of view, a stand doesn't just need stability when I'm playing it; it needs to withstand jostling by other band members and party guests when I'm having an hors d'oeuvre or going to the bathroom.

Put a keyboard like yours on it in the store. Push on it. Put some extra stress on it. Any slight deformation when it's brand new is likely to increase over time, so be wary if you have any doubts.
_________________________
Greg Guarino

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#1318853 - 12/05/09 10:32 AM Re: Opinions on a V vs X stand for an 88-key Keyboard [Re: gdguarino]
MarkL Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/07
Posts: 728
Loc: Chicago Suburban
I have exactly the same stand as 10fingers, the style that is like a small table with 4 angled legs. I've had several X stands and all were relatively unstable compared to table style. The table style also allows changes in height by extending the legs, which doesn't make it inherently less stable. Raising an X stand causes the size of the base to be reduced, which makes it even more wobbly. I've never used a V stand.
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#1318867 - 12/05/09 11:08 AM Re: Opinions on a V vs X stand for an 88-key Keyboard [Re: MarkL]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
I use double braced X-stands with my arrangers and my digital pianos...I sit when I play.

They are very similar to the one Greg(gdguarino) has used successfully.

They are the easiest to transport and break-down, and are very rugged and exceptionally stable.

Single braced X-stands are horrible, and very unstable.

I've had no problems with pedals...lots of room.

I don't recommend V-stands.

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1318903 - 12/05/09 12:00 PM Re: Opinions on a V vs X stand for an 88-key Keyboard [Re: snazzyplayer]
smithster Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 16
excellent points everyone. i appreciate the prompt/thoughtful feedback.

i've checked out a few stands at a local music store(s) - mainly the X (single/double braced). haven't seen a V stand up-close, and they generally seem scarce online (compared to other stands). which probably says something.

i'm leaning towards the double-braced X. but, i want to take a look at the Quiklok WS-550 (recommended by setchman). it looks pretty solid/portable.

cheers.

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#1318912 - 12/05/09 12:11 PM Re: Opinions on a V vs X stand for an 88-key Keyboard [Re: smithster]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
The Quiklok WS-550 is a very nice unit as well...very stable...not as quickly broken down and as easily transportable as a double braced X-stand, but a great unit nonetheless.

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1319023 - 12/05/09 02:59 PM Re: Opinions on a V vs X stand for an 88-key Keyboard [Re: snazzyplayer]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
It was the double-braced X-stands that I used and found rocked all over the place. Now that was when 88 key stage pianos weighed 100lbs. It may be that with the trend toward lighter keyboards, this design would fare better, but the inherent design of the thing is problematic, as even the double-X flexes under pressure. Also, consider MarkL's point if you like your keyboard to be up higher (if you stand, for instance).

Jonathan

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#1319036 - 12/05/09 03:22 PM Re: Opinions on a V vs X stand for an 88-key Keyboard [Re: 10fingers]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Now that you mention it, the double X may not fare so well when the player is standing, but, very few piano players actually stand when they play...sustain pedal...not much fun standing essentially on one leg for a whole night.

Double braced X-stands certainly are convenient and easy to break down and transport.

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1319057 - 12/05/09 04:05 PM Re: Opinions on a V vs X stand for an 88-key Keyboard [Re: 10fingers]
gdguarino Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/20/07
Posts: 317
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: 10fingers
I use a table-like stand, where the downward force is met by the ground,

Perhaps I'd feel differently if I sat down to play at gigs, thus keeping the stand lower, but my instant reaction to that picture is to worry about the stand's shallow footprint front to back. I've played on boats, and around patrons who, a couple of Heinekens in, walk on land as if they're on a boat.

I also need a second tier. That reminds me of a gripe by the way. Most stand makers seem to assume that the upper tier keyboard will tilt down. If you try to make it level it ends up too high. I built myself "temporary" custom brackets to hold my (small, light) upper keyboard. They've been on the stand eight years so far.

I guess the lesson is that no one design fits everyone's needs. Mine's been pretty good to me.
_________________________
Greg Guarino

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#1319062 - 12/05/09 04:16 PM Re: Opinions on a V vs X stand for an 88-key Keyboard [Re: gdguarino]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
I was just going on the premise that the piano player would be seated and using only one instrument.

I've never found a suitable double tier stand, X-type or otherwise, and I've tried just about every combination.

I only use one keyboard when gigging, whether it's a piano or an arranger instrument. The only two manual instrument I like playing is my Hammond B-3.

When I use my Yamaha P-85 as controllers, they are off to the side as I set up in an "L" configuration, but this is generally for the studio only.

Keyboards used to have flat tops, which made stacking incredibly easy.

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1319063 - 12/05/09 04:18 PM Re: Opinions on a V vs X stand for an 88-key Keyboard [Re: 10fingers]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11704
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: 10fingers
From the picture in your link, I would just want to be sure that there is enough room for the pedals, without cramping your style. I find the X-style stands really irritating, as they rock like a see-saw if your hands are alternating left and right with heavy chords (or not-so-heavy).

I use a table-like stand, where the downward force is met by the ground, and whilst it's ugly, it gets the job done. (See link below) The Quiklok mentioned by setchman looks useful too.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PlatformStd/

Happy searching,

Jonathan

I have this same stand, but I bought it from Amazon for about $45, so shop around. This is the best stand, very sturdy, and it folds up easily for ease of transportation. The one thing is that at its lowest setting, it's still a bit higher than most piano keyboards, so I have to adjust my bench a bit higher.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#1319079 - 12/05/09 04:44 PM Re: Opinions on a V vs X stand for an 88-key Keyboard [Re: Morodiene]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Yes, the platform stand http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PlatformStd/ is too high at it's lowest setting, and I found the backs of my legs were pressed uncomfortably onto the edge of my bench, after raising it to compensate.

I took the stand back the next morning...very disappointing. frown

It might take a while, and a bit of experimenting, to find what will suit you best...so try them out if you can....a poor keyboard to bench relationship can result in wrist problems.

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1319161 - 12/05/09 07:10 PM Re: Opinions on a V vs X stand for an 88-key Keyboard [Re: Morodiene]
10fingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 298
Loc: CA
Morodiene, mine was too high for me also, so I slid the inner tube of each leg out, which lowered it about an inch more (leaving a rather rough surface underneath).

Jonathan

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#1319179 - 12/05/09 07:41 PM Re: Opinions on a V vs X stand for an 88-key Keyboard [Re: 10fingers]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: 10fingers
mine was too high for me also, so I slid the inner tube of each leg out, which lowered it about an inch more (leaving a rather rough surface underneath).

Jonathan


You can get rubber feet at a hardware store to keep the leg ends from scratching the floor and also keep the stand in place.

The rough edges actually work to your advantage on carpet, but may cause a few pulls, so be careful.

I still found it too high, even with the extensions removed.

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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