I got the price of $5300 including tax, delivery and two tunings of Kawai K3 at a piano store. Then I called another dealer to ask what the price they can give me. They said that they could do better but they do not disclose the price over the phone which is Kawai policy. They said that I could go to the store to talk to them. This weekend, I went there. I asked the price. It is higher than $5300. So I said that I got the price lower than you gave me at another store. The salesman said: “Then I think that you should buy the piano there.” After saying this, he returned to his office at the back.

I was so angry since I drove long way to the store and just got this answer. Anyone could tell me how to bargain over the phone since I already know what I need to buy? I just want to negotiate the price. I made several calls and everyone said that they do not disclose price over the phone and please come. But I really do not want to experience this once again and waste my time.

Thank you.

I visited several dealers during my search years ago; only one ever mentioned a price over the phone, which ultimately wasn't the price I paid for the piano (ended up buying there).

Quoting prices over the phone is just not something that seems to be done in this business...

Are you trying to buy the piano straight "from the crate" or a floor model at a piano store, where you've actually picked the one you like best? Japanese pianos are consistent, but they're not identical from one to the next!

Most piano dealers do not discuss prices over the phone. Nor do high-end jewelers, car dealers, or real estate sales personnel. That is the way it is.

The store I got $5300 told me that they deliver it with the original and sealed box. The workers will open it at my home.

But I really do not want to drive long way and end up with that.

If you told the guy what price you had, and he told you "come in I can do better", then someone there owes you at least an explanation. You probably won't get one -- but this goes back to a thread I was involved in a few weeks back. In my experience, the piano retail marketplace (generally speaking) has not yet entered the 21st century.

good luck with your purchasing decision

Perhaps I can help clarify the situation.

Virtually all significant piano manufacturers and distributors have a written Dealer Agreement with their retailers. Almost universally these agreements prohibit the discussion of selling prices other than in person. We, in the industry, refer to this as the "Threshold Rule". The agreement also usually sets a "market area", outside of which prices may not be advertised, as well as a Minimum Advertised Price (MAP). The MAP limits the prices that can be quoted in any type of advertising.

To be clear: the Dealer Agreement does not limit, in any way, the price at which a dealership may sell in a face-to-face negotiation with a buyer, only what they may advertise.

Dealers must agree to these policies in order to secure representation of the brand.

One of the best sources for shoppers to evaluate a price being quoted by their local dealership is in Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer and/or in our searchable database, both accessable at www.pianobuyer.com

I think ultimately it depends on how much you value your time. My husband always says that I spend way too much time in comparison shopping and the time spent is way more valuable than the couple hundred dollars I managed to save. I hate to admit it but he does have a point.

I called a few dealers. If the one carries the model I am asking for, the one answering the phone says that they can do better than the price I got and please come. I never heard that one told me "sorry, I cannot do better."

Now I highly doubt this. Even they cannot match the price, they still try to get me in.

You may realize this already, but buying a piano in the "original and sealed box" means that it will not receive any dealer prep prior to arriving in your house. A piano like the Kawai is going to come fresh from the factory in pretty good shape, but you should be aware that ANY piano will benefit from dealer prep prior to purchase. You may want to raise the issue with the dealer and see whether prep (tuning, voicing, regulating) will be included as part of the purchase price. Alternatively, you may wish to have your own tech do the prep, but just let him/her know that the piano didn't receive dealer prep.

In short, if the dealer was trying to imply that delivering a piano in the "original, sealed box" was a selling point, it really wasn't.

This is one of the reasons for Dealer Agreements. Generally the LOCAL dealership, with its reputation at stake, will do a better prep job and provide better customer service than a dealership far away.

To echo the great comments above, a piano delivered straight "out of the box" will require more tuning in the first two years, and may have more problems (sticking keys, bobbling hammers, and other minor adjustments) than one that you picked off the showroom floor because you liked the sound and feel of it.

I see. Thank you.

avenoo, depending on your location, $5300 for a K-3 in the crate is way too much money. My K-2 came in the crate, but it was an incredible bargain. You need to negotiate hard with this dealer.



Kawai must do an excellent job at the Indonesian factory, because mine has had very stable tuning, and when I called a tech over to do the "prep", he said none was needed. It hasn't been tuned since June and just now are a few notes starting to drift. Maybe I just got lucky.

Avenoo and others --A dealer that was informed of the price you were quoted by another dealer, has you come in on the promise of a better price and then quotes you the same or a higher price (with our without prep, etc.) is a complete a**hole and deserves to go broke. I "get" the prep part, and the argument for paying up for it, but as I understand the initial OP, he was lied to. That dealer should be ashamed of him or herself.

Steve is spot on in his description of the limitations in most dealer agreements. No one deal is worth jepordizing the loss of a valuable franchise. That said, there is more to the story.

You simply cannot sell a piano over the phone. Giving any price over the phone to a prospect who has never been into your store is fruitless and foolish. There is always a seller out there somewhere who will sell it for less. There is no such thing as the "lowest" price! The second a seller quotes a price on the phone the shopper has no reason to come to the store to be shown product; he has lost. They just let their fingers do the walking and call the next dealer in the phone book or off the internet.

Each price negotiation is surrounded with a variety of variables that dictate a dealers lowest position on any given day on any given product. There are considerations beyond the scope of a salesperson on the floor and even a local store manager. Only the owner principal has a handle on his financial position and inventory dating. Agressively discounted deals nearly always involve a consultation with ownership and this is not going to happen on the basis of a random anonymous call.

The roll of the guy or gal who answers your call at a dealership is one thing only, to encourage you to come to the store, never to negotiate with you on the phone. This is not something new, it has been the case for decades. This is not an example of a lack of cooperation, it is more of a recognition that pianos are not sold on the phone. There is no profit in it.

We do not encourage our folks to even ask what price a shopper has been given on the phone. That actually puts us in a precarious position by encouraging the shopper to come in. The standard response is that we will do our best to accomodate offers that make decent business sense for our company.

Shoppers making calls like, "Can you beat $X on a K-3" are a no win thing for all concerned. Of course, there is always the rooky, the weak, and the desparate who violate their agreement and quote a price. They rarely get the sale, but always spoil it for someone else.

Let me ask a couple questions...

When you called, did you get the name of the person that told you they could do better?

And when you went to the store, did you tell them that you were told over the phone by 'so and so' that they could do better?

I ask this question because consumers (including myself) can sometimes play games with retailers. Putting the store on notice that you came in based on what you were told over the phone is a lot different than getting a price and then saying that the store in the next town is selling the same thing for a lower price.

The first way puts them on notice that they have an obligation to fulfill. The second way does not obligate them, in fact it may put them on the defensive.

I'm just asking this because your post does not really say...


Ken

This may not be any consolation, but I’ve had this happen to me with auto dealers. They’ll tell you anything to get you there in hopes of pressuring you into buying. Some salespeople have very strong verbal skills and a strong personality and are good at high-pressure tactics.

I honestly think you were treated unfairly and inappropriately by the dealer in question; to tell you one thing on the phone and something totally different when you get there is not right.

Keep looking, you will find the right dealer/salesperson, and when you do, you’ll find the right piano.

Rick

It seems many piano stores closed their business.
I googled a list in NJ and called whether they have Kawai K-3.
Many phone numbers are disconnected.
It seems that I do few stores left.
Even in the store, I do not how to negotiate the price.
I went to the one gave me $5300 twice. First time, I arrived late and it would close in 15 mins. The grandson of the owner talked to me. He offered me this price. Then he said: "you can come the other day since we are closing soon. And talk to grandfather. He is the owner and makes decison."
So next weekend, I went there again. The grandfather gave me the price higher than $5300. Then I told him:"your grandson gave me the price $5300. How come you gave me a higher price?
Then he said:"Ok, that's it. $5300." I asked him whether he can do better, he shaked his head and walked away.
how can I negotiate?

It’s easy…

Figure out the most you are willing to pay for a piano (or any item). If the asking price is higher, make your offer and see what happens. If the seller doesn’t take your offer, walk away. That is what the dealer does.

See, it’s easy.

Rick

"Then he said:"Ok, that's it. $5300." I asked him whether he can do better, he shaked his head and walked away.
how can I negotiate?"

You just did.

You just did. Your offer was rejected.

I wish you well, but be careful to take ALL things offered in a dealer's final price, such as prep, tunings and delivery *which YOU pay for in the negotiating price* and without which some dealers just do not want to sell their pianos.

If they can, dealers will make the sale. If not, they too are not happy that they cannot please you with what you are interested in as well as you not being happy to go home with a piano.

Being rude and walking away says something is not being heard here (IMO) or was just rude.

All DEALers want to deal (sell)

The price you got from the first dealer you spoke with is a great price. You should have bought it.

However, as others have said getting a piano right out of the box is not the ideal scenario - and the dealer knows that. The lack of preperation that they would not have to do to your piano by delivering a piano in the box is reflected in their price.

Repeat after me: A piano is not a refrigerator from Best Buy. A piano is not a refrigerator from Best Buy. A piano is not a refrigerator from Best Buy. A piano is not a refrigerator from Best Buy.

The key is to know the average retail price and the historical discounted price and THEN work the dealer off that information.

Getting more than 30% off on is piano has been considered an excellent deal since NAMM indicates the average wae 15.

Avenoo, your question was: "How do I negotiate," and it's a pretty fair one. You will do better if you know some things first about pianos, and the market conditions. If you haven't read Marty Flinn's book and Larry Fine's "Piano Buyer," the information would help you.

You have to be very patient and persistent, try a good sample of pianos, and check out the dealers to see which one suits you. It also helps to negotiate with a smile. Maybe closing the door on an inflexible negotiator is ok, but leaving it open might also work in your favor. If your counteroffer is turned down today, maybe in a few days the seller will call you back and meet your offer, or make you a new one.

Or maybe, you need to save up a little more so that what you really want is within your reach. After all, the dealer cannot afford to sell to you at a loss. Also, keep in mind that the preparation, tuning, etc that the cheapest seller does not do, is something you will end up paying for out of your own pocket later... if you want to have a nice piano that works well, plays well, and sounds well.

And, heaven forbid, if your new piano has a serious problem that requires warranty repair, the dealer is the first person you will turn to. It's nice to think that they will still be there tomorrow, and that they will be glad to see you again because you were a pleasant and reasonable person to do business with.

Buy a piano at a fair price with the joint backing of one of America's top rated retailers Costco and let the archaic, customer unfriendly, high overhead, amateurstic piano dealerships that play games, lie on the phone, rudely turn their back on you and generally treat you like some sucker to shrivel and die on the vine.

If they turn their back on you during price negotitions, what do you think they are going to do when you need service. Forget about them. Most won't be here anymore 10 years from now anyway.

This is not a retail environment to play games, be rude, or mislead potential buyers. If you don't respect someone's time, you'll probably lose their business.
Showing up at the dealership with a checkbook in your hand puts you in a powerful negotiating position!

I wish that all the buyers are getting the piano they want at a great price and the dealers are taking care of them. Happy Holidays!

You're not allowed to shop around for the best price you can find??

Journey,

I have to take issue with your COSTCO observations.
1. Many COSTCO piano roadshow events are staffed by cadres of sales folks who have washed out of traditional retail settings. They may or may not have current or correct product knowledge. They have no connection to the local community and will have no responsibility for customer service post-sale.
2. COSTCO piano events are for 10 days or less and then gone for months and months. All products shown are not available after the event has closed.
3. COSTCO piano prices are often higher than can be gotten at the local dealer.
4. COSTCO piano purchasers frequently receive second class service from impersonal call center staff rather than the actual person they purchased from.
5. COSTCO sample pianos are rarely tuned and prepped to audition. Acoustics in COSTCOs are horrible and noisy.
6. Once the deal is rung through the COSTCO register their participation ends. Deliver, post-delivery tuning, and any warranty services are provided by some nameless enty that likely has no retail base in your community.

I find it interesting that you are commenting on American retail all the way from Amsterdam. What is the depth of your experience to level such charges?

I find your wholesale indictment of the traditional retail piano business insluting and unfair. I agree with Ken. Most of the dealers and sales people I talk with on a weekly basis are hungry for business and are bending over backward to accomodate hard bargainers. Successful long term retailers don't ever view their customers as "suckers".

1. The same could be said for the overwhelmingly amateur fly by night piano dealers. However, they may even by paying their salesmen on draw plus margin-related commission incentivizing them to screw customers.
2. Typical in-out products. You get a good price without paying for a whole year of someone else's inefficient overhead.
3. COSTCO prices are very fair, close to or the same to what you would get at a local dealer after doing the stupid mating dance, if you are good enough at negotiating and don't slap them side of the face out of annoyance first.
4. Costco sales are generally serviced by a local dealer who cooperates with the road show PLUS you get reliable call center backup support from COSTCO, PLUS you get money back guarantee. You always have the manufacturer warranty anyway for defects wherever you buy. Letting your dealer service your piano is often just not smart. There are a lot of talented, hungry techs and tuners out there who are willing to work for you rather than for a dealer against you.
5. If you want to audition, go to a snooty piano store. When you know what you want of the limited Yamaha, Kawai, Suzuki etc. offerings of COSTCO, you just go buy it there at a known price as if it were the year 2009 or something.
6. The nameless entity may be one of the local dealers or another organization as good or better than the local dealer. If you are not satisifed you have one of the nation's most successful retailers standing behind you rather than just someone who most months has to post date checks to even pay the rent.


I am sure that you are correct that there are lots of dealers and sales people who are hungry for business. I am not questioning your expertise on this question. I agree that they will bend to hard bargainers while taking the little old lady for an expensive ride. I also agree that successful long term retailers don't ever view their customers as "suckers". That is exactly why I bring up the Costco option.