Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1284597 - 10/10/09 11:40 PM Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250
PianistForChrist Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/10/09
Posts: 3
Loc: Zabcikville TX, United States
Ok so...I've been really lookin into getting a new DP, and these 3 are ones that I've basically narrowed it down to. Now keep in mind the price between the P85/SP-250 and the YPG-635 is not really a factor. I've always known Yamaha as a rather respectable brand and until recently (referred to by a friend) had never really put attention towards Korg...I do understand that a product like the Casio PX330 is another option, but I never really took fancy to Casio.
Basically, I know a few things about these products (from reviews, posts, specs, etc. on websites. And I've also messed around with the YPG-635) and I was just looking for some opinions.
I'm mostly looking for good key action and piano sound, so all of the crazy sounds and random features that come with the YPG-635 aren't exactly import in this case. I have heard that, for some reason, a number of YPG-635's speakers have been making a rather disturbing buzzing noise (even though I've been told that that's just because of playing it with the volume too high).
I have also heard that the SP-250's keys are kind of noisy and make an unsightly clicking noise when played. I've yet to confirm this since I haven't been able to mess around on one (GC out of stock), but my friend (the one who referred Korg to me) says that his church has one and they supposedly love it. He has the keys to the church and I'm really hoping to get a chance for him to let me in there and play around on it for a bit.
SO, I guess I'm really lookin for:
Great Weighted Key Action
Some good Grand Piano, Strings, and Harpsichord sound
And a nice pedal and stand set
Just lookin for some solid honest opinions...wow...I said alot...


Edited by PianistForChrist (10/11/09 12:02 AM)

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / Roland
Kawai Superb Stage Piano and Controller

Click Here


#1284612 - 10/11/09 12:19 AM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: PianistForChrist]
Geoffk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 757
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Based on what you've said, I think the Korg would be a better choice. Don't worry about key noise. The Korg action is very good and no noisier than any other weighted digital. And the piano sound and other sounds are excellent, especially for the money.

Top
#1284847 - 10/11/09 12:31 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: Geoffk]
NoFingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 84
Loc: USA
I would say the Korg, it is a very good DP at its price range. I also think the Korg has better action. If you decide to go Yamaha though, then YPG-635 > P85. My 2 cents.

Top
#1284913 - 10/11/09 02:20 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: PianistForChrist]
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
From an earlier thread which included the Korg:


Originally Posted By FogVilleLad:
Montag, IMO the Korg is worth pursuing.

Approximately six years ago there was a rumor that Korg was going bankrupt and that Yamaha had begun supplying actions to Korg. The rumor included the information that Yamaha, which of course was by far the largest manufacturer of digital pianos, was doing this because of anti-trust laws in Japan. (By helping Korg to survive, Yamaha was heading off any accusations of their having a monopoly.)

As far as I know, this rumor was never proven to be true. What I can tell you is that when I went to Korg's site, the description of their action was almost exactly the same - almost word for word - as Yamaha's description of its action.

Currently, Yamaha's best graded hammer action is the GH3. Korg's best action is the RH3. Korg's description says that there are modifications which facilitate fast repetition. That's exactly what Yamaha's GH3 action is supposed to do. The GH3 has a third sensor. You might want to contact Korg's technical support and learn whether the RH3 also has a third sensor. If it does, it could be a Yamaha action.


Originally Posted By Martin C. Doege:
I think there might be something to this rumor: I've played around with one of Korg's weighted-key workstations ($2,300 I believe) at GC, and the action certainly felt suspiciously like a Yamaha to me. When you consider how different in touch the Casio and Roland actions are from a Yamaha, it would be a huge coincidence if Korg just happened to come up with an action that feels indistinguishable from a Yammie...


Originally Posted By FogVilleLad:
To which I would add only that Korg is too small a company to develop its own action. They're getting it from someone. If the RH3 has three sensors, my money's on Yamaha.

Top
#1284979 - 10/11/09 04:48 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: FogVilleLad]
Johan B Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 968
Loc: The Netherlands, Grootegast-Gr...
When you want to play at a digital piano without the rumor you discover.......spend some more money and go for the clavinova's.......

CLP 320 would be fine....

Best regards,
Johan B
_________________________
Yamaha clp320PE

Currently working on:Sonaten of Haydn/Mozart, Suites Bach/Hndel, Sonate pathetique Beethoven
'Nil volentibus arduum'

Top
#1285045 - 10/11/09 06:12 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: Johan B]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1079
Loc: California
I know nothing of Korg. I'm happy with my YPG 635. The appearance you'll either love or hate, it's called cherry fake wood but it's really blond and then silver. Doesn't look anything like most pianos, but the stand is included and it matches.

The controls are super easy and intuitive but they're very visible. I have had no problems with the speakers, but it is much quieter than say the Casio.

I'm always hearing how it's the bottom of the line Yamaha action, but when I tried the P155 I didn't think the difference was big enough to warrant the cost. It's not a great responsive action like the Roland V or the CVP line from Yamaha, but it's better than most older acoustic uprights and as good as the Korg and Casios which I tried. I didn't like the Korg at all. I thought the P85 was pretty nice for the price, but I think it's action is the same as the YPG and you get much more with the YPG. Maybe you don't want all the bells and whistles, but it's nice ot have a multi-track recorder, and a bunch of really good sounding voices. I really like some of the organ voices, and the strings, etc....

I think if those are your 3 choices, the YPG is the best. You get a lot for your money, but it's not an overload on the number of voices.

Check out the reviews by purchasers on Amazon and on some of the online sellers.

Top
#1285396 - 10/12/09 10:40 AM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: Nikalette]
BanditHH Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 43
@Nikalette

You know nothing about the Korg, how can you say: I think if those are your 3 choices, the YPG is the best.

Sounds that your decision is not objectiv! And what I read from you in the past, you are a YPG-635 fanboy/girl wink

@topic

I've had the YPG-635 (DGX 630) and I had the problem with the loudspeaker, so I decided to return it. Finally I got the Casio PX-330 and I'm happy with the Piano sounds and key action.

I also tried the Korg SP-250 and imho it also has a very good key action. I didnt liked the design and the fact that it has less voices.

No doubt, YPG 635 is a real good DP for that price. And if I wouldnt had that defect, I believe I still would own it.
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-330BK

Top
#1285429 - 10/12/09 12:01 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: BanditHH]
montag Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Argentina
I recently bought my first DP and was between the Yamaha P-85 and the Korg SP250. I compared models in a music store and went with the Korg, which seemed much better to me. I'm very happy with my decision, it has everything I wanted from a piano. The key action is the best I've tried, and I went through several models in the music store. At least in my case, the key noise is totally acceptable and you won't notice it unless you play without headphones at low volumes.

Top
#1285834 - 10/13/09 01:33 AM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: montag]
Martin C. Doege Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
I really don't know why these forums are always such a hate-fest for the P-85. The Korg may have GH3, but its piano sample is still absolutely pathetic, so what good does it do it? I can get a better-sounding mellow piano sample simply by setting touch response to hard on the P-85, as it was probably intended to sound in the first place, before Yamaha decide to ship an EZ-play piano (default touch response = "normal").

Not to mention that terrible default stage reverb on the P-85 grand piano 1 patch. But that still only means that the P-85 is a pretty decent instrument with terrible (for loudspeaker) factory presets, nothing more...
_________________________
Yamaha P-85; Pianoteq Pleyel

Top
#1285906 - 10/13/09 05:40 AM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: Martin C. Doege]
Geoffk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 757
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Well, it just goes to show that everybody has different opinions. I think the piano sample on the Korg sounds pretty good. And a number of other people have posted that opinion recently as well.

As for the P-85, nowadays, when even the cheapest Casio has a 3-level or 4-level sample, it's hard to give it a lot of respect. It just feels and sounds cheap to me. Admittedly, it's very well-made and probably reliable, but it just doesn't compare well to the competition.

Top
#1286115 - 10/13/09 12:22 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: Geoffk]
Martin C. Doege Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
Originally Posted By: Geoffk
Well, it just goes to show that everybody has different opinions. I think the piano sample on the Korg sounds pretty good. And a number of other people have posted that opinion recently as well.

As for the P-85, nowadays, when even the cheapest Casio has a 3-level or 4-level sample, it's hard to give it a lot of respect. It just feels and sounds cheap to me. Admittedly, it's very well-made and probably reliable, but it just doesn't compare well to the competition.


I'd rather take one good-sounding sample over 3 or 4 bad ones. Multi-sampling will eventually work out, but on the sub-$1,000 DPs it doesn't sound all that great so far. It seems more like a marketing ploy: If you increase the number of sample layers in your latest DP by one every year, then the salesman has an easier job convincing the customer that he needs this year's model ("Look, you don't want a DP with 3 sampling levels anymore, everyone does 4 now!").

It's like CPU speed on a computer -- just having a CPU with more Gigahertz does not guarantee a faster system. The CPU design and speed of the other components in the system also plays a big rôle. Similarly, a DP with N+1 sampling layers is not automatically better than one with N. When people do "blind taste tests", where they just rate the sound without knowing technical details, the P-85 is usually quite competitive with multi-sampling DPs. Which shows that the virtues of multi-sampling are not all that obvious to notice as soon as you play a real piece, instead of just say hitting a single with varying force.

And then there's the question of blended and unblended sampling layers, which to me makes a much bigger difference than their number. I.e., I think blending is absolutely necessary, and so far the lower-cost multi-sampling DPs didn't seem to have it. It seems to be included only now with the PX-130/PX-330.
_________________________
Yamaha P-85; Pianoteq Pleyel

Top
#1286153 - 10/13/09 01:10 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: BanditHH]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1079
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: BanditHH
@Nikalette

You know nothing about the Korg, how can you say: I think if those are your 3 choices, the YPG is the best.

Sounds that your decision is not objectiv! And what I read from you in the past, you are a YPG-635 fanboy/girl wink

@topic

I've had the YPG-635 (DGX 630) and I had the problem with the loudspeaker, so I decided to return it. Finally I got the Casio PX-330 and I'm happy with the Piano sounds and key action.

I also tried the Korg SP-250 and imho it also has a very good key action. I didnt liked the design and the fact that it has less voices.

No doubt, YPG 635 is a real good DP for that price. And if I wouldnt had that defect, I believe I still would own it.


I know nothing about Korg specs/features/etc...but I played several Korgs including the 250 at our local music store. The salesman actually steered me away from that towards the YPG. I didn't buy it there, so it wasn't the price.

I didn't care for the touch/sound of the Korg.

Obviously of the 3 models, I like the YPG better because I bought it instead of the other 2 and they were on my list.

How can anyone have an objective opinion on a musical instrument? No one is asking for an objective opinion. That's actually, with all due respect, an absurd statement.
My opinion about any keyboard is based on what I have experienced, which by itself is a subjective matter.

Objectivity would involve research, following protocols, using double blind studies, etc....

I don't give opinions on keyboards I haven't played. That's objective. I don't get upset when someone disagrees with me about a keyboard. They're entitled to their opinion.
Good grief...why are people so argumentative over someone's opinion? Get a life.


Edited by Nikalette (10/13/09 01:13 PM)

Top
#1286395 - 10/13/09 09:20 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: Nikalette]
montag Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Argentina
Martin, I think everyone here is just giving a personal opinion. In my case, I don't think I ever said that the P-85 is a bad DP. If you read my thread, I was between the P85 and the Korg SP250, and finally bought the SP250 based on my own impressions when I tried it. However, I also liked the P85 and its sound. As you say, regardless of having 1 or a multi-level sample, it is very well graded and gives a realistic response when you play at different levels. Like someone else said here, 'how they accomplish it, doesn't matter', and I agree that having several samples that are not progressive enough could be worse than having one that is well filtered. * I * preferred the sound and touch of the Korg, but it's a matter of taste. If someone that tested the P85 by himself and liked it asked... ¿is it a good DP? I would reply... yeah, absolutely, go for it, very good DP for the money.

My point is... * most * of us only want to help others in their decisions, and are not fanboys of specific products.

Top
#1286830 - 10/14/09 12:41 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: montag]
Martin C. Doege Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
Originally Posted By: montag
Martin, I think everyone here is just giving a personal opinion. In my case, I don't think I ever said that the P-85 is a bad DP. If you read my thread, I was between the P85 and the Korg SP250, and finally bought the SP250 based on my own impressions when I tried it. However, I also liked the P85 and its sound. As you say, regardless of having 1 or a multi-level sample, it is very well graded and gives a realistic response when you play at different levels. Like someone else said here, 'how they accomplish it, doesn't matter', and I agree that having several samples that are not progressive enough could be worse than having one that is well filtered. * I * preferred the sound and touch of the Korg, but it's a matter of taste. If someone that tested the P85 by himself and liked it asked... ¿is it a good DP? I would reply... yeah, absolutely, go for it, very good DP for the money.

My point is... * most * of us only want to help others in their decisions, and are not fanboys of specific products.


Well, my comment was not so much directed at you (I know you have been fair in your reviewing of the Yamaha vs the Korg) but at Geoff. Whenever somebody brings up the P-85, he's very much in haste to post that one shouldn't even consider it based on the fact that it only uses one sample layer, as if that was the most important criterion by which to rate a DP.

If he said that he thinks multi-layer DPs always sound so much better, etc. I wouldn't have a problem with that. But he always states it like some kind of indisputable truth, and that irks me. Rating DPs is quite subjective, so these kinds of blanket statements are not very helpful.
_________________________
Yamaha P-85; Pianoteq Pleyel

Top
#1286928 - 10/14/09 02:34 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: Martin C. Doege]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
OK, I've owned the Korg and an earlier, non-weighted version of the Yamaha Portable Grand, but not the P85.

My personal opinion is that, as a substitute acoustic piano, and at less than $700, the SP-250 is very good. The keybed is definitely one of the best - at this price or higher - and the samples are well-enough implemented, with not too much evidence of velocity switching on the Grand Piano sounds (which are quite mellow). There is obvious switching on the EP sounds.

The Yamaha Portable I owned had only a single sample level, but nonetheless the sound was quite pleasing. However, I wouldn't have felt it was adequate for serious study since the dynamics (and hence expressivity) were limited.

Currently, I have a GEM Prp800. This also has only a single velocity sample, but it is a very expressive instrument. It achieves this by using physical modeling to reshape the piano sound at whatever velocity the keys are struck. This results in an almost infinite range of dynamics within the ppp to fff limits. You don't hear velocity switching - there is none - but you can go from a muted whisper to a clanging fortissimo in a way that's as close to the real thing as I've heard. So, depending on the technology used, it IS possible to make non-velocity-switched DPs that work well.

That being said, AFAIK there is only the Roland V-piano that has pursued this technology to its natural conclusion - an entirely modeled sound. (The GEM uses only modeling - no samples - just for its Rhodes/Wurlitzer sounds.)

These are my subjective thoughts but, hopefully, reasonably well informed!
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

Top
#1286964 - 10/14/09 03:35 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: PianistForChrist]
Thelonius One Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Michigan
This is kind of a side question, but I've been wanting to try out the Korg SP-250, but it seems like most stores around here (in Michigan, U.S.) don't have them in stock but say that they will do special order. I'm tempted to buy it that way based on what I've heard about but I really don't want to buy a keyboard that I haven't played yet. Will a store special order a keyboard even if you might not buy it? It seems VERY unlikely, but worth a try.

Towards the topic: I agree, the P-85 has really good sound, but with no audio/line out jacks makes me think the price (~$700) is a bit much. Does Korg have line out jacks for audio? I haven't been able to verify that through searching online.

Top
#1286969 - 10/14/09 03:41 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: Thelonius One]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
The Korg does have line-out jacks. There is only a single sustain pedal socket - if you need three pedals, you'd have to do it via midi.

I suppose you could order it through a store like Guitar Center, and if you don't like the piano make use of their returns policy.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

Top
#1286985 - 10/14/09 04:06 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: Thelonius One]
Martin C. Doege Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
Originally Posted By: Thelonius One
This is kind of a side question, but I've been wanting to try out the Korg SP-250, but it seems like most stores around here (in Michigan, U.S.) don't have them in stock but say that they will do special order. I'm tempted to buy it that way based on what I've heard about but I really don't want to buy a keyboard that I haven't played yet. Will a store special order a keyboard even if you might not buy it? It seems VERY unlikely, but worth a try.

Towards the topic: I agree, the P-85 has really good sound, but with no audio/line out jacks makes me think the price (~$700) is a bit much. Does Korg have line out jacks for audio? I haven't been able to verify that through searching online.


The Korg doesn't have a built-in MIDI sequencer though, and again the level on the headphone jacks of the P-85 should not be a problem with equipment that expects Line Out levels.

The P-85 is between $500 and $600 (e.g. $545 at http://compare.ebay.com/spid/53573821?fl...sShippingLowest) -- most definitely not $700!
_________________________
Yamaha P-85; Pianoteq Pleyel

Top
#1287158 - 10/14/09 09:00 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: Martin C. Doege]
Geoffk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 757
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Originally Posted By: Martin C. Doege
Well, my comment was not so much directed at you (I know you have been fair in your reviewing of the Yamaha vs the Korg) but at Geoff. Whenever somebody brings up the P-85, he's very much in haste to post that one shouldn't even consider it based on the fact that it only uses one sample layer, as if that was the most important criterion by which to rate a DP.

If he said that he thinks multi-layer DPs always sound so much better, etc. I wouldn't have a problem with that. But he always states it like some kind of indisputable truth, and that irks me. Rating DPs is quite subjective, so these kinds of blanket statements are not very helpful.


Look, I hate to dump on anybody's instrument. You have a P-85, and you obviously like it, so good for you. But, yes, a 1-level instrument is simply not going to have realistic dynamics. It may sound fine, but it won't be realistically expressive. It just can't be done. This is not a subjective thing, like touch. This is "does it change tone realistically as it gets louder"? Since there are nice, multi-level instruments for the same price, I don't see any reason to recommend it and I steer people away from it. It does sound nice at first play, and you might not notice how limiting the dynamics are until you play it for a while.

I'm not a "fanboy". I routinely tell people to try out other Yamahas and Kawais. In fact, I generally prefer Kawai and Yamaha portables to Roland portables. But every maker is entitled to a few clunkers and (yes, in my opinion) the P-85 is one of them.

PS I don't think the action on it is very good either.

Top
#1287194 - 10/14/09 10:07 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: Geoffk]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Geoffk

a 1-level instrument is simply not going to have realistic dynamics. It may sound fine, but it won't be realistically expressive. It just can't be done. This is not a subjective thing, like touch. This is "does it change tone realistically as it gets louder"?


Geoff, if you read my post above about the GEM pianos, yes it can be done - but it takes some very sophisticated technology. I take your point about the P85 not being up to snuff dynamically - the lower end Yamahas tend to be a little "dumbed down" in my opinion, so as to preserve the differential with their more expensive models - but your statement was perhaps a little too dogmatic. wink
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

Top
#1287211 - 10/14/09 10:58 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: voxpops]
Geoffk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 757
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Ok, but that's physical modeling. You might as well say that the V-Piano is a 1-layer instrument. I stand by the assertion that any pure sampling 1-layer instrument will have limited and unrealistic dynamics.

And, by the way, I know that the P-85 is supposed to have filters to help give it some dynamic brightness. That's clever, but it doesn't solve the problem in a convincing way. Brightness and volume aren't the only tonal changes.

Top
#1287222 - 10/14/09 11:20 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: Geoffk]
galaxy4t Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 853
Loc: Lakewood, CA
It seems obvious that the P-85 is a half hearted attempt by Yamaha to compete with Casio's inexpensive Privias (ie PX-120/130). I think this model leaves a lot to be desired and Yamaha should rethink its offering in this price range. In my opinion, it is an inferior product that falls way short with it's limited piano sample and light graded hammer touch. It might be a Yamaha, but the new Casio PX-130 puts this offering to shame expecially with it's piano sample.

Top
#1287245 - 10/14/09 11:52 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: galaxy4t]
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
Yamaha previous P60 has GH action, but Yamaha downgraded the following replacement P65,70,85 with GHS action, around/after the time when DGX620/YDP625 was introduced. it seems that Yamaha would 'downgrade' some better features to cheaper ones when adding some other minor features on the new stage models (except the top one), which is really a cheap way to go forward with their products.

also, i wonder what's stopped Yamaha to replace GH with GH3 on stage pianos?

Top
#1287515 - 10/15/09 12:04 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: Geoffk]
Martin C. Doege Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
Originally Posted By: Geoffk

Look, I hate to dump on anybody's instrument.


You sure do it a lot (at least in the case of the P-85) for something you supposedly hate so much to do.

Originally Posted By: Geoffk

You have a P-85, and you obviously like it, so good for you. But, yes, a 1-level instrument is simply not going to have realistic dynamics. It may sound fine, but it won't be realistically expressive. It just can't be done. This is not a subjective thing, like touch. This is "does it change tone realistically as it gets louder"? Since there are nice, multi-level instruments for the same price, I don't see any reason to recommend it and I steer people away from it. It does sound nice at first play, and you might not notice how limiting the dynamics are until you play it for a while.


Yes, but if the multi-level instruments just switch between e.g. 3 layers without an attempt at blending, then they are a joke. (And that's precisely what the situation has been for the multi-sampling sub-$1,000 DPs hitherto.) The e-pianos on the P-85 actually do that, and while it may give you more tonal difference between the high- and low-velocity samples, it does not allow expressive play as I understand it, namely the small variations in sound and volume that support the phrasing and rhythm of the piece, because you mostly always end up with the medium-velocity sample and that's it. So Yamaha could very well have included this 3-layer switching for the grands too on the P-85, but wisely enough recognized that this is worse for Classical music than the filter-based approach, which does allow both big and small variations in volume and tone.

As for the PX-130/330, I think the sample morphing/blending is a huge improvement and means they are a lot more usable for Classical music than their predecessors. Perhaps my only remaining gripe is that they use such a badly sampled Steinway. The RD-700GX has a very nice Steinway sound (if you like the Steinway sound, that is), but the Casios fall short. This is more of a problem for Casio than Yamaha IMHO, because the Steinway sound is pretty well-known due to its frequent use in recordings and public performances, so one has certain (high) expectations on what it should sound like. If a Yamaha on the other hand sounds better than Elton John's 1980s piano it has already beat my expectations... smile
_________________________
Yamaha P-85; Pianoteq Pleyel

Top
#1287985 - 10/16/09 01:19 AM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: Martin C. Doege]
PianistForChrist Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/10/09
Posts: 3
Loc: Zabcikville TX, United States
Well...I think I've decided upon getting the Korg SP-250, but it's not final yet.(It turns out that the Korg my friend mentioned wasn't exactly an SP-250...I guess I was a lil misled...in fact, it wasn't a DP at all, it was an early Trinity Non-Weighted Workstation *sigh*...which means I've still yet to play on one...aye, what am I gunna do???) So thanks for all the helpful opinions...even tho some have been rather off-topic, but anyways, thanks...

Top
#1288324 - 10/16/09 03:56 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: PianistForChrist]
Martin C. Doege Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
Originally Posted By: PianistForChrist
Well...I think I've decided upon getting the Korg SP-250, but it's not final yet.(It turns out that the Korg my friend mentioned wasn't exactly an SP-250...I guess I was a lil misled...in fact, it wasn't a DP at all, it was an early Trinity Non-Weighted Workstation *sigh*...which means I've still yet to play on one...aye, what am I gunna do???) So thanks for all the helpful opinions...even tho some have been rather off-topic, but anyways, thanks...


I think the difference here is that Korg is very well-respected for its workstations, while the DPs are a bit of an unknown factor in terms of build quality, reliability, etc. So if I got myself anything from Korg it would rather be a workstation than a DP. Except I don't really need a workstation. But they are lots of fun to play with I have to admit... smile
_________________________
Yamaha P-85; Pianoteq Pleyel

Top
#1289058 - 10/17/09 11:27 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: Martin C. Doege]
RemiChen Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 9
Loc: Canada, Qc
Originally Posted By: Martin C. Doege
I really don't know why these forums are always such a hate-fest for the P-85. The Korg may have GH3, but its piano sample is still absolutely pathetic, so what good does it do it? I can get a better-sounding mellow piano sample simply by setting touch response to hard on the P-85, as it was probably intended to sound in the first place, before Yamaha decide to ship an EZ-play piano (default touch response = "normal").

Not to mention that terrible default stage reverb on the P-85 grand piano 1 patch. But that still only means that the P-85 is a pretty decent instrument with terrible (for loudspeaker) factory presets, nothing more...



i personnaly bought a p-85 because i cant afford to pay more than 800 canadian$ for my instrument at the moment...
i must say i am very happy with it but i know nothing about technicality of those digital instrument.
in any case..the next thing im gonna buy is a real piano and certainly not a digital instrument.

i have proved many time in the past in multiple ping-pong tournament that it wasnt the product i was using that make me win against my opponents...but the player behind the product.

i dont think the instrument will make the player better...but its dedication, passion and work will do it.


Edited by RemiChen (10/17/09 11:29 PM)

Top
#1320701 - 12/07/09 10:10 PM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: RemiChen]
vitog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 129
Loc: People's Republic of Massachus...
I'm gonna throw in my own 2c on the P85 vs. Privia PX130. Just tried both side by side at a local GC. The piano samples on the Yamaha, especially in the high registers, are a total joke compared to PX 130. I realize I may sound a bit too harsh here, but frankly I could not believe my ears when I heard both at the same time. Keyboard is also better on the Casio, but difference was not as dramatic to me. These are, of course, my own subjective opinions.
_________________________
Kawai MP8
Lots of other stuff

Top
#1321033 - 12/08/09 11:59 AM Re: Yamaha YPG-635 vs Yamaha P85 vs Korg SP-250 [Re: vitog]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
PianistForChrist: I played a Korg SP-250 at a Sam Ash a year or so ago (demoing it for a student Xmas present). Liked the stand and the look, but that was it. The harpsichord sample in particular was a complete joke compared to the very realistic sample in our Yamaha P-120.

The YPG-635 looks like the toy my wife plays on at church - I'd avoid it like the plague.

As for Casio, I'd only buy the low-end CDP100 for a 5 year old beginner who might drop lessons at any point, other than that I'd go with Yamaha. And, while I haven't the chance to play one yet, I'd probably go with the Yamaha P-155.

Your best friend in the digital piano store is a good (>$100) set of headphones you brought from home.

Also, custom stands are often more expensive than much higher quality generic stands. I recommend Quik-Lok W550 / On-Stage Stands WS8550 (~90) -or- Quik-Lok M-91 (~$100). Avoid X-stands (no leg room). Also, the Quik-Lok BZ-7 (~$60) bench is nice.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
82 registered (amv256, aprilmas, AZ_Astro, ando, 36251, AndrewJCW, 24 invisible), 1172 Guests and 20 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75908 Members
42 Forums
156880 Topics
2305114 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
MY NEW PIANO
by Jvmvidela
38 seconds ago
Here's a Paranoid Question:
by Paul678
55 minutes 43 seconds ago
Are you must always make A4= 440?
by Maximillyan
Today at 12:55 AM
LEARN TO BURN! master class
by Dfrankjazz
Today at 12:22 AM
How does a composer/songwriter learn piano chords?
by amv256
Yesterday at 09:49 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission