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Hello,

please help me to make the right decision. I need a DP/SP(portable) for my 7 years old child who studies piano at school. Money are a problem...i hardly could make it up to 1000$ (~700 EUR). As far as I understood good sound and heavy touch are very important for a beginner and should be as closer as possible to an acoustic piano.

My options are of three kinds:

1. cheaper
THOMANN SP-5500
+ cheaper, lots of features,
- doubts about quality of sound and heavy touch
Casio CDP-100
+ cheaper, good touch,
- less features, doubts about the sound

2. expensive for me
KORG SP-250
+ seems that imitates better the acoustic piano(sound and touch)
- less features, problems with speakers ? as read on pianoworld.com

YAMAHA P85
+ better sound, touch(i think...). a good price however
- less features

3. too expensive for me. it worth a bigger effort ?

YAMAHA DGX-630
+ nice features, good touch and sound


Until now my choice would be the THOMANN SP-5500, but I'm so not aware of what a child could lose if he doesn't hear a good sound. As far as I see thomann.de does not provide a sample for "classic" piano for SP-5500. This might be because it is not build to imitate an acoustic piano ? Is THOMANN SP-5500 sound really bad ? Is it's touch heavy enough ? For a beginner child it really matters if he starts playing on THOMANN SP-5500 or on YAMAHA DGX-630 ?
Considering that I can afford only a small amount over the price of a THOMANN SP-5500, it worth to pay for this little difference, or Thomann will do his job good enough ?

What other options should I consider ?

Thank you very much.

I'd definitely stick to established brands like Casio or Yamaha. Saving a few bucks by using some Chinese no-name brand isn't really worth it IMHO.

If you need something portable, then e.g. the Yamaha P-85 or Casio PX-130 would fit the bill. The SP-250 and DGX are also portable in principle, but a lot heavier, so you should think about how frequently you need to carry the instrument around. If you want to set it up in different places all the time, you should obviously pick something very light.

As far as the key action goes, both the SP-250 and P-85 would be good choices. If you have an acoustic to compare to, this might help you decide which one is better for you. Acoustic actions can vary a lot in weight between different models (especially uprights vs grand pianos), so it's always a bit difficult to say which weight is best for a DP. But especially for a child, I'd say the action should not be extremely heavy.

You might also consider whether you want the extra DGX-630 (YPG-635 in the US) features, such as notation and fingering display or built-in rhythms. The SP-250, CDP-100, and P-85 are pretty bare-bones, which on the other hand means fewer distractions. Then again, these features can make things much more fun for a beginner...

Another vote for the Casio PX-130. It's within your budget, and for the price the key action and piano sound are very good. If you live in a city with a big music store, they've probably got them on display right now and you could stop and try one out.

I'd recommend the Yamaha P-85.

I use one myself and can vouch for it's quality and great bang for the buck.

With the optional stand and pedals, it also looks terrific. Get the black cabinet finish...it looks very classy

Action is not too light, or too heavy. Perfect for a 7 year old.

The Yamaha name commands respect, and if you ever plan to upgrade at a later date, it will be far easier to sell or trade in.

Snazzy

I'd vote for the SP-250, as I loved the touch and it has quite good piano sounds. Not the best, but still good. It has several different cool sopunds too, especially the organs and e-pianos.
You also get a pedal and a stand included in the package, so you won't have to worry about those.
http://www.youtube.com/user/MusikSchmidt#p/search
Here's a demo. It's in German, but you'll be able to hear the sounds at least.
Also, I still think it has 3 layer sampling. At least it sounds that way in this video.

Thank you!
P-85, Casio PX-130 or SP-250 were the safe choices for me, too. Probably the price and other accessories will make the difference - because the reviews are so confusing sometimes.

So, nobody likes the Thomann sp5500 . Is it because none of you experimented it or simply it is not good ? I would like to hear the opinion of an expert that used this piano. It looks good enough over here: http://www.thomann.de/de/thomann_sp5500.htm

The SP-250 has one-layer sampling. It's older technology and I personally think it sounds like crap.

The lowest I'd go is Casio CDP-100, though to not have to upgrade in a couple of years I'd get the Yamaha P-155, which the kid could probably play on until college. In-between choices would be Casio PX-130 and Yamaha P-85.

Get a good set of headphones. AKG K240's are on clearance now for $100, they are incredible.

I was just heading to SP-250...as I had founded one good offer in my home town (a bit less than the price from thomann.de, which was great).

What exactly is this layer sampling and why it is so important ?

Real pianos sound quite different when a note is played harder or softer. One way to deal with this in a sample-playback based instrument like a DP is to sample (record) the note played softly, then medium, then hard, which is a triple-strike sample. Recording 4 velocity layers gives you a 4 strike sample, and so on. At playback, when a note is played on the DP, one of these recordings is selected to make the sound. If the note is played at a velocity in-between two of the samples, the samples may be added (morphed or blended) in some way (this is generally a good thing).

If only a single velocity is sampled (i.e. a single strike sample set), then DP manufacturers scale the volume of the sample with the velocity of the key played. They also generally employ filters or other means to brighten up notes that are played harder and dull down notes that are played softer.

Hearing the same recorded sample of the same note over and over and over leads to listener fatigue, so I would strongly suggest you buy something with a multi-strike sample.

[edit] In general, single layer samples indicate a sample memory that is too small to sound very realistic.

I should also add that the P-85 is a single layer instrument, but generally gets good reviews here, so go figure.

Casio PX-330 has a 4 layer piano sample and is a good choice too. I believe the PX-130 has an identical piano sample as the PX-330.

Very good explanations! Thank you very much .

You're right Chris, it does get more than favorable reviews.

Sometimes people let specifications get in the way of how they hear and perceive a digital piano.

When I tried the Yamaha P-85, I was not told it was a single layer based instrument(nor did I ask), and after trying several other pianos, after which I learned had more than one layer, I walked out the door with the P-85.

Go figure.

Just goes to show, that sometimes specs don't tell the whole story.

Never had a problem with ear fatigue either; of course, that's because I use my fingers like most piano players.

Snazzy

So people keep saying but I've yet to see any evidence. The Korg website suggests it is exactly the same as the LP350 which it says has multi layer sampling. Either way I think it sounds pretty good, in fact for the price I think it sounds very good indeed!

You can listen to some samples here
Purgatory Creek

And I think the one-layer sample actually causes less ear fatigue, because due to the filtering, there a many possible brightness steps for the sound, not just three or four.

With sample switching, you suddenly have a note e.g. in a scale that sounds completely different from the rest, just because it's using the high-velocity sample. On the other hand with layer interpolation, you try to interpolate between very different waveforms (e.g. mf and f samples) which leads to slightly odd-sounding results, as on the PX-130/330. Using a single sample layer does give the sound a certain self-consistency...

What do you think about YAMAHA DGX-530 ? There is a store near my hometown where I can buy it for 530 EUR (780 $ - suspicious low price !?).
Is it much weaker than a DGX-630 ?
Is it comparable with P85 or Casio PX-130 in matter of sound and touch >?

Personally I like it because it has lots of features like: USB, Yamaha Education Suite version 4, lyrics and score display...my boy will like these too, I'm sure. But, I don't want to sacrifice quality of sound and touch for a little more fun...

Thanks again.

Does the DGX 530 even have hammer action?

I guess not. This is from the specs: "Yamaha DGX-530 keyboard - 88x graded soft touch keys with touch response..."

PS: Sorry if i seem to ask stupid questions . I am completely new to the piano's world. Moreover, I'm not so good at music, my ears does not help me very much...going to a store to try a piano wouldn't make much difference to me.

I see nothing wrong with the
Thomann SP 5500. This is
Thomann's in-house brand, and
so they can sell it at a
better price than other brands.
Thomann is the biggest online
retailer of digital pianos in
Europe and they have a reputation
to protect, and so they are not going
to put their name on a bad
digital piano.

I bought my first digital piano in 1989,
and even way back then the digitals
performed like an acoustic piano.
Today, 20 yrs. later, even economy
digitals like the Thomann SP 5500 have
technical specifications far superior
to the best digitals of 1989. So
the SP 5500 will perform like an
acoustic piano.

I think the 630 is the same as the 530 except the 630 has weighted keys.

If you have access to a Yamaha NP-30, the key action is identical to the DGX-530...just fewer keys.

Snazzy

There is another option: Roland does not store velocity based samples. They do sample a real piano but then "de-construct" the sound into components. The components get added back together based on key velocity. So if you strike hard, a Yamaha might play back the "ff" sample but a Roland might add in more of the bright overtone sample and then fade it out over time. And then the v-piano and pianoteq are not sample based at all.

Each method has pros and cons. Each has it's own set of sonic defects.