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#1325665 - 12/14/09 11:56 PM squirting pins
Anson Everitt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/23/08
Posts: 111
Loc: Utah
the store i'm tuning for has only 25%humidity. Its a massive book store/scrapbook store/music store. The books like the dry climate, but the tuning pins on some of the grands i tuned looked like they were gettin ready to squirt out of their holes any second. Seriously, i could tell with my naked eye that the distance from the bottom of the coil to the plate had grown an eighth of an inch or so since i last tuned 7 months ago. so How BAD is 25%??????
_________________________
Anson Everitt
PTG associate

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#1325673 - 12/15/09 12:15 AM Re: squirting pins [Re: Anson Everitt]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 22352
Loc: Oakland
It is more likely that your memory is faulty than the distance between the coils and the plate have changed that much. Humidity changes would do nothing to change that, although it might affect tuning pin bushings. If there is that much change, it would likely indicate a drastic problem with the pin block and its mating to the plate.

The change in humidity is the more important than the amount of humidity.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#1325697 - 12/15/09 01:06 AM Re: squirting pins [Re: Anson Everitt]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Anson Everitt
How BAD is 25%??????

at a low/medium heat 8% too low from the minimum adviseable without trouble.

books like dryness, they also adbsorb moisture, so it may be a dry place all the year and the piano can get used to it.

The tone can tell you if the soundboard is really suffering, the pinning can be soft in winter and normal in summer.

SB are sometime dried to 4% moisture in prevision of this (so they retain their crown). to get there 77°c and 14% HR (I did not verify the numbers but they may be close)

I did not understood it is a piano store !! they should consider at last some humidification (again some money !!)


Edited by Kamin (12/15/09 01:07 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1325897 - 12/15/09 12:08 PM Re: squirting pins [Re: Olek]
Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 3456
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Measure A4 on a few pianos. How flat are they going? That tells you everything you need to know about how they are responding to their environment. I typically see swings of +/- 20 cents from winter to summer.

25% is way too low, but it's often hard to get it higher in a store, especially if it's in a mall with central heating. Most piano stores in cold climates have a fleet of humidifiers running in winter.

--Cy--
_________________________
Cy Shuster, RPT
www.shusterpiano.com
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Assistant Director, PTG Denver 2015 Technical Institute
http://convention.ptg.org

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#1326242 - 12/15/09 09:59 PM Re: squirting pins [Re: Cy Shuster, RPT]
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2338
Loc: Maine
Although it's colorful imagery, tuning pins don't "squirt" out of the holes. They have fine threads that cut into the pin block, and even when they are turned most of the way out, they don't "squirt". I've removed a lot of them, and have yet to get one in the eye that squirted out!
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----

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#1326342 - 12/16/09 12:47 AM Re: squirting pins [Re: David Jenson]
Anson Everitt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/23/08
Posts: 111
Loc: Utah
Oh, I'm so relieved to know they won't squirt out and hit me. That means i can take my safety glasses off when i go back tomorrow.

Anson Everitt
member-PTG
_________________________
Anson Everitt
PTG associate

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#1326352 - 12/16/09 01:02 AM Re: squirting pins [Re: Anson Everitt]
Anson Everitt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/23/08
Posts: 111
Loc: Utah
No, seriously, there's gotta be about $500,000 worth of inventory in there waiting to be destroyed. There's a $30,000 Baldwin "Artist" series with the veneer peeling off. The other "Artist" grands are the ones with the 3/8" space between coil and plate. THAT in itself can't be good. Can it? Should those be tapped back in?

There was a definite change in humidity. We're in Utah and the winter air gets freakin' dry. Perfect for creating the best snow on the planet for skiing and other snow activities. Not so great for pianos. The store owners don't seem to take the information i've given them about the low humidity too seriously. I would, if my flooring was up on half a mil. in pianos. I'd like to take charge of this problem even though they are pianos of lesser quality (Gibson Baldwins,eww) i guess i just head over to the home center and pick some portable humidifiers eh?


Edited by Anson Everitt (12/16/09 01:17 AM)
_________________________
Anson Everitt
PTG associate

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#1326386 - 12/16/09 02:11 AM Re: squirting pins [Re: Anson Everitt]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
the most efficient humidifiers in that case are professional models that contain a large fan that flow the dry air an a moisted grill. Then with the heat the air get dry in a natural way, without calcium ruining the high frequency elements or installation of white hard dust on the furniture.

If not the ones who boil water are OK but they dont last for long.

their instruments are yet out of the guaranty from the maker.... There are accepted HR levels depending of the warmness of air on the Petrof's website (it can go relatively low in winter, up to 32 %, but we are under that number generally when there is dryness problem)


Edited by Kamin (12/16/09 02:12 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top
#1326585 - 12/16/09 11:54 AM Re: squirting pins [Re: Olek]
Gene Nelson Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1586
Loc: Old Hangtown California
the 3/8" space between coil and plate. THAT in itself can't be good. Can it? Should those be tapped back in?
____________________________________________________________

some things to consider:
How does the angle of approach of the string look from the first termination to the bottom of the coil on the pin - is it paralell to the plate? Is it difficult to maintain a tight coil? What is the angle of the tuning pins? How long are the pins and how far are they driven into the block? Are the tuning pin holes in the block drilled all the way through so you can see into them from the under side?
If you tap the pins down will they come through the bottom of the block? If the holes are not drilled through then you will need to remove a pin and take some measurements or risk delaminating the bottom layer of the block.
_________________________
RPT
PTG Member

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#1326622 - 12/16/09 12:49 PM Re: squirting pins [Re: Gene Nelson]
Anson Everitt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/23/08
Posts: 111
Loc: Utah
Gene,

Thank you. I will take note of the things you mentioned and move forward accordingly. Do you know of good model of Humidifier to put in the general vicinity of these pianos?

Anson Everitt
PTG assoc.
_________________________
Anson Everitt
PTG associate

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#1326626 - 12/16/09 12:56 PM Re: squirting pins [Re: Anson Everitt]
Gene Nelson Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1586
Loc: Old Hangtown California
Anson,
Sorry, I cannot help with humidifeir types but if it is for a room, any reputable HVAC company should be able to offer one that is designed for the room.
_________________________
RPT
PTG Member

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