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#1327745 - 12/17/09 07:16 PM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: LS35A]
charleslang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 2084
Congratulations!

Yes, 6000 dollars is about 50 years' worth of tunings. shocked You made a good choice!
_________________________
Charles Lang

Baldwin Model R; Hardman 5'9" grand; Rieger-Kloss vertical

Jazz, pop and classical

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#1327747 - 12/17/09 07:17 PM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: snazzyplayer]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4354
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: snazzyplayer
It's like my 425 lb Hammond B-3.

There's just something about all that mass and wood and tactile feedback that makes you feel connected with the soul of the instrument.


And you'll feel really connected with the instrument when your back goes out while schlepping it somewhere and 400+lbs of wood and soul land on you.

Now that's REAL tactile feedback! ;-)


Edited by dewster (12/17/09 07:17 PM)
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The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
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#1327748 - 12/17/09 07:17 PM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9522
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Congrats LS35A!

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1327753 - 12/17/09 07:25 PM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: OldFingers]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: OldFingers

I don't understand why it is so, but DPs suffer from a lack of dynamic range.


Not all DPs, only those selling at reasonable prices. The trouble is that sound systems with the required dynamic range are very, very expensive and not the kind of thing you can sell to a consumer, they have to be set up in the listening room by a pro and in most cases the room will need "treatment" At this level of audio perfection one does not "buy a set of speakers", one "hires an installation".

Good DPs themselves are easy to make. In fact the very first sampling DP ever made back in 1984 (the K250) was able to pass a blindfold listening test against a concert grand piano. The listeners were musicians. But,... They used a sound system that cost $40,000. and those were "1984 dollars". Today it would cost $100K

I'm pretty sure that if one were to connect a $100K sound system to a lowly Yamaha P155 it would sound better then most of the acoustic pianos in the world.

That said to get "good enough" sound one need spend only in the range of a "handfull of thousands". But even is this to much for most DP owners. So the reason for the lack of dynamic range, I'm sure is just economics. The technology existed in the 80s,

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#1327761 - 12/17/09 07:38 PM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: dewster]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: snazzyplayer
It's like my 425 lb Hammond B-3.

There's just something about all that mass and wood and tactile feedback that makes you feel connected with the soul of the instrument.


And you'll feel really connected with the instrument when your back goes out while schlepping it somewhere and 400+lbs of wood and soul land on you.

Now that's REAL tactile feedback! ;-)


Not at all...this little piggy stays home. I may be insane, but not that insane.

I have a Yamaha CP-300, and two Yamaha P-85's for gigging, and they fulfill all my needs for stage use.

No Eric, the Avant Grand is for my own enjoyment (or my guests), just like my Hammond B-3.

I will, however, take a good look at the new stage pianos from Yamaha.

The C1 looks very interesting, as does the C5.

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1327772 - 12/17/09 07:54 PM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: LS35A]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7264
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: LS35A
the just over four grand Yamaha P560 upright sounded MORE LIKE A PIANO and played MORE LIKE A PIANO. Six grand buys a lot of tunings and moving.

So I bought the M560, in Cherry, Queen Anne style.


Yep, I've got to admit...you can't get that sound in a digital. grin
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1327780 - 12/17/09 08:01 PM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: ChrisA]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4354
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: ChrisA
Good DPs themselves are easy to make. In fact the very first sampling DP ever made back in 1984 (the K250) was able to pass a blindfold listening test against a concert grand piano. The listeners were musicians. But,... They used a sound system that cost $40,000. and those were "1984 dollars". Today it would cost $100K

Well, you can quickly train your ear to easily hear the defects in modern mid-level DPs. If a DP jumped out of the bushes at some musicians back in 1984, they might be overcome by the technical prowess, and their untrained ears might not immediately notice these defects.

Originally Posted By: ChrisA
I'm pretty sure that if one were to connect a $100K sound system to a lowly Yamaha P155 it would sound better then most of the acoustic pianos in the world.

Like a good sound system, good headphones can bring out both the good and the bad in a DP. The bass was definitely improved, but I could easily hear looping on the P155 with my AKGs, even with a drummer pounding my brains out at the local Sam Ash. If you played a flurry of notes and didn't let it decay for too long I might miss it though.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1327782 - 12/17/09 08:01 PM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: turandot]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: turandot
Originally Posted By: LS35A
the just over four grand Yamaha P560 upright sounded MORE LIKE A PIANO and played MORE LIKE A PIANO. Six grand buys a lot of tunings and moving.

So I bought the M560, in Cherry, Queen Anne style.


Yep, I've got to admit...you can't get that sound in a digital. grin


Of course you can't...anymore than you can get the digital to slowly drift out of pitch with itself and anything else played with it. grin

You must have ears of iron, or just be able to shut out the tuning discrepancies that eventually appear...and they will appear. eek

I'm made of weaker stuff, I guess...I expect the instrument to sound in pitch all the time.

Shucks, where did my mother go wrong. cry

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1327792 - 12/17/09 08:14 PM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: LS35A]
OldFingers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 546
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: turandot
Thanks for letting me bore you. Your posts got me thinking about these things.

It was a pleasure reading about your piano experience. I suppose the problem has to do with everyone's perception of sound, which is such a subjective and personal experience. It's no wonder that we crave so many different qualities from our pianos.


Originally Posted By: LS35A
More details later, but for now, short version is I'm thrilled to death. Can't wait to get my Yamaha P560!!!!

It is thrilling when you finally make the decision. Congratulations.
_________________________
Aspiring Retirement Home Lounge Pianist

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#1327802 - 12/17/09 08:31 PM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: snazzyplayer]
deburn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 27
Loc: Boston area
Great link snazzy! thanks! Chick Corea is my favorite musician, and has been for a long time, way before I decided to learn to play piano. It's also cool that he grew up in Chelsea Mass, which is where I live now!

I thought he was a Fender Rhodes guy, no?

Originally Posted By: snazzyplayer

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#1327816 - 12/17/09 08:54 PM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: deburn]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
deburn,

The Avant Grand has a super Rhodes sound, and coupled with the great action, is a real joy to play.

I have a Rhodes 73 I am restoring...the action is the worst part about Rhodes pianos; most of them were not much fun to play; very uneven unless you had an expert go through it and fix things.

The action in mine is by Pratt Read, later ones were made by Wurlitzer.

The Rhodes sound on the Avant Grand is far more controllable...that's probably why Chick fell in love with it, although he has been endorsing Yamaha products for some time now.

Have you heard Chick play live?

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1327855 - 12/17/09 09:44 PM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: snazzyplayer]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9522
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I didn't realise the Avant included non-acoustic piano sounds also.

I'll have to add it to my Christmas wish-list. wink

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1327954 - 12/18/09 12:06 AM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: turandot]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3863
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: turandot
I don't like the compression of dynamic range in dp sound.
You can find many faults in a DP (relative to an acoustic). But I can easily tolerate them all ... except for the dynamics. That's the thing I miss most in a DP. Where's the fortissimo?

I can crank up the volume to bring up the loud end. But the soft end comes upward with it. The range just is not there.

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#1327956 - 12/18/09 12:08 AM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: Kawai James]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3863
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: KAWAI James
... the Avant ...
I'll have to add it to my Christmas wish-list.
An AG for Christmas? I guess your Santa is MUCH better than mine! smile

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#1328004 - 12/18/09 01:28 AM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: Kawai James]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4354
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: KAWAI James
I didn't realise the Avant included non-acoustic piano sounds also.

I'll have to add it to my Christmas wish-list. wink



You might want to brace your floor in advance - Santa might make that 400+lb wish come true, and then where would you be?
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#1328183 - 12/18/09 10:08 AM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: dewster]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7264
Loc: torrance, CA
LS35 is now enlightening the members of the piano forum with the news of his purchase. Since a Yamaha furniture console trumps any and all digital pianos, it seems appropriate that he move to that higher ground. grin
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1328189 - 12/18/09 10:15 AM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: Kawai James]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: KAWAI James
I didn't realise the Avant included non-acoustic piano sounds also.

I'll have to add it to my Christmas wish-list. wink

Cheers,
James
x


James, the Rhodes sound on the Avant Grand is a knockout. thumb

One of the many advantages of a digital piano...of course, you already know that. wink

Best money I ever spent on an instrument.

Snazzy

_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1328222 - 12/18/09 11:13 AM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: turandot]
LS35A Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 139
Loc: Hayden, ID
Originally Posted By: turandot
LS35 is now enlightening the members of the piano forum with the news of his purchase. Since a Yamaha furniture console trumps any and all digital pianos, it seems appropriate that he move to that higher ground. grin


I had a digital piano and was dissatisfied with it, wondered if anyone else felt the same way and had any experiences or suggestions to share. So I started this thread which has been very popular and very helpful to me (which is nice).

I had an interesting shopping experience buying an acoustic piano so I posted that in the piano forum. There are lots of threads in that forum about piano dealers and how people do business, and prices people pay for pianos.

You posted a snarky comment in that threat, now in this thread. WHY DON'T YOU CRAWL BACK UNDER A ROCK YOU NASTY LITTLE CREEP?

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#1328233 - 12/18/09 11:37 AM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: LS35A]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: LS35A


You posted a snarky comment in that threat, now in this thread. WHY DON'T YOU CRAWL BACK UNDER A ROCK YOU NASTY LITTLE CREEP?


I was not replying to your comments at all.

Shouting (using all caps) and calling someone names is rather pathetic (as well as impolite and childish), but I suppose it takes all kinds to make a forum.

May I take this opportunity to offer my congratulations on your new piano. thumb

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1328265 - 12/18/09 12:25 PM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: snazzyplayer]
voxpops Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3091
Loc: Oregon
Some of the things I have so enjoyed about this forum have been the helpful comments, insightful reviews and impassioned but polite argument about the things that drove us here in the first place. Please let's not spoil that.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#1328270 - 12/18/09 12:28 PM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: voxpops]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Some of the things I have so enjoyed about this forum have been the helpful comments, insightful reviews and impassioned but polite argument about the things that drove us here in the first place. Please let's not spoil that.


I agree wholeheartedly, Voxpops.

Well said.

Shouting and name calling should not be tolerated.

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1328417 - 12/18/09 03:11 PM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: LS35A]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7264
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: LS35A
Originally Posted By: turandot
LS35 is now enlightening the members of the piano forum with the news of his purchase. Since a Yamaha furniture console trumps any and all digital pianos, it seems appropriate that he move to that higher ground. grin


I had a digital piano and was dissatisfied with it, wondered if anyone else felt the same way and had any experiences or suggestions to share. So I started this thread which has been very popular and very helpful to me (which is nice).

I had an interesting shopping experience buying an acoustic piano so I posted that in the piano forum. There are lots of threads in that forum about piano dealers and how people do business, and prices people pay for pianos.

You posted a snarky comment in that threat, now in this thread. WHY DON'T YOU CRAWL BACK UNDER A ROCK YOU NASTY LITTLE CREEP?


LS35,

Your first four posted words here were "I love my ES4". I believe that since those four words you have become increasingly antagonistic toward digital pianos. One example of that was starting a new thread here entitled "Bleeding Edge Digitals Are Insanely Overpriced". From that thread title it was clear that you were in no way interested in a discussion. You only wanted to set the record straight. In your stirring address to the members of the Piano Forum (A Tale of Two Dealers), your have set the record straight again by boasting of your ability to buy a piano (a furniture grade console at market price in a sub-market price economy) and pointing to your accomplishment as proof that piano retail can be A OK --- "See, it is possible to be a successful piano dealer these days" In this case, the basis of the retailer's success is that he sold a piano to you. To be honest, I don't think that selling a piano to you required much smarts from the dealer although it probably was a highlight of his day.

Meanwhile, back on the digital forum you have declared that your new Yamaha cherry entry-level furniture grade Yamaha console with Queen Anne Legs beats out any digital. Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion. There's no question about that. OTOH, if you really expect anyone else to do anything but laugh at your opinions, you may have some problems.

Take your acoustic purchase for example. You broke every rule in the book, or to be nice ,let's say that you bucked every convention in successful piano evaluation and shopping in your purchase. If you're happy, that's great!! But you're using a very loud trumpet to announce things that are really of no consequence at all. If you continue to do that, members will assume that you are a fool.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1328850 - 12/19/09 04:50 AM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: turandot]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9522
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: snazzplayer
Best money I ever spent on an instrument.


Given your impressive collection, that's quite a statement!

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1328893 - 12/19/09 07:58 AM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: Kawai James]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: KAWAI James
Originally Posted By: snazzplayer
Best money I ever spent on an instrument.


Given your impressive collection, that's quite a statement!

Cheers,
James
x


James, I'm afraid that Yamaha has slipped me another mickey with the release of the C1 Stage Piano, and it may well be equally as impressive on it's own merits, as the Avant Grand.

I may need to seek immediate treatment for G.A.S. (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) although, considering my track record, it will probably fail miserably. wink

However, the Avant Grand still continues to touch my soul as much as ever...I just figure it will be a mite tough to transport in my Honda Fit. wink

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1329014 - 12/19/09 11:37 AM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: turandot]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3863
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: turandot
But you're using a very loud trumpet to announce things that are really of no consequence at all. If you continue to do that, members will assume that you are a fool.
Who's trumpeting now? smile

Top
#1330801 - 12/21/09 04:24 PM Re: I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights [Re: snazzyplayer]
deburn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 27
Loc: Boston area
Hi snazzy, sorry for the delayed response. Yes, I have heard Chick play live a few times, but not as often as I'd like to!

Originally Posted By: snazzyplayer
deburn,

The Avant Grand has a super Rhodes sound, and coupled with the great action, is a real joy to play.

I have a Rhodes 73 I am restoring...the action is the worst part about Rhodes pianos; most of them were not much fun to play; very uneven unless you had an expert go through it and fix things.

The action in mine is by Pratt Read, later ones were made by Wurlitzer.

The Rhodes sound on the Avant Grand is far more controllable...that's probably why Chick fell in love with it, although he has been endorsing Yamaha products for some time now.

Have you heard Chick play live?

Snazzy


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