Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards I'm starting to look at acoustic uprights

I love my ES4, but everytime I get to play my teachers Yamaha acoustic I hear/feel what I'm missing.

I don't want a four hundred pound thing in my living room, or the maintenance hassles. But acoustic pianos feel and sound different, and I like the difference. I spent many years playing classical guitar and really like an 'acoustic' sound.

I wish there was some breakthru tech on the way that would make me happy with a DP, but I just have my doubts about that....

Anyone else try to settle down with a DP and not been able to make it work?

I've been tickled pink with my Yamaha Avant Grand N3. It has soul. It feels, plays and sounds like a grand piano without the hassles.

http://ny1.com/1-all-boroughs-news-...--grand-piano-feels-like-the-real-thing/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrr5-0aF5KM

Worth every penny.

Snazzy

Snazzy, may I ask if you were you able to play-test the N2?

I agree that the N3 is undoubtedly an incredibly instrument, however given that LS35A is considering an acoustic upright, it may be a little too large. Perhaps the N2 would be a suitable compromise?

Cheers,
James
x

James, I tried the N2 only briefly, as my attention was grabbed by the visually arresting N3...I was hooked.

This is rather interesting.

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA...etail.html?CNTID=5037130&CTID=560001

Snazzy

BTW, I sold my Tyros3 and bought a PSR-S910 arranger, and I've ordered a CVP-509. I was interested in the Roland RM-700, but I've decided to stay with Yamaha.

The N2 is a beautiful looking instrument. I'd love to play one, but doubt I'll have the opportunity. Aren't they around ten grand? I think you can get a nice Kawai, Yamaha, Essex, upright for between five and six, so that's a consideration. Four grand buys a lot of tuning!

I don't think anyone in Phoenix has the V-Piano or the N2, but I could be wrong about that.

Congrats, you've hit the DP wall of crap - join the vast, vast club. Either buy a real piano, or some good PC modeling / sampling software, or settle in for a long, frustrating wait for the DP manufacturers to build something real (warning: there is no end in sight). No technical reason why they can't, they just won't. My personal theory is there are a half-dozen or so key old-school engineers in Japan & Korea that we are all waiting on to retire / die. The sooner the better IMO, if someone can identify them I'll make it my life's goal to dance (and perhaps worse) on each and every one of their wretched graves. Do I sound bitter?

Anyway, do you have a set of good headphones? Speakers are notoriously bad at sound reproduction, and 99% of those built-in to DPs are an abomination in my ears. I recommend AKG K-271 (sealed) or AKG K-240 (semi-open). They won't get you around the scandalously obvious compression artifacting in what passes for even a very good DP sample set these days, but they can vastly improve the listening experience.

Up until about 6 months ago I had been playing a digital piano exclusively for the last 7 years. My previous acoustic was a Baldwin R. I new it was probably a mistake to sell it but I felt I had not choice at the time. I missed having an acoustic for so long that I finally broke down and purchased a Kawai K-3. It's a nice piano but it's no Baldwin R.

I miss my Baldwin more than ever. If it weren't for the fact that my son is learning piano, the Kawai may not get played that much. I had gotten so used to hearing a perfectly in tune (digital) piano that it's tough for me to sit down at the Kawai. Even after 2 free in-home tunings it's not sounding the way I want it to. I think the tuner's ears are just wired to his brain differently than mine are so I haven't given up hope that I'll find a new tech that hears the way I do. I had owned 4 different acoustic pianos before this one but, except for one other, this one hasn't grown on me yet.

The point is that, as much as I love the sound of a real acoustic piano, I've gotten spoiled with the ease at which I can sit down and hear a consistently great sounding piano, albeit, a digital reproduction.

I know no one wants to start another acoustic vs. digital thread and I'm not saying that one is better than the other. I will always want both. I will say that if you are missing the sound of an acoustic piano, make sure you spend as much time as it takes to find the one you'll be happy with.

I can tolerate bitterness, but now you're being needlessly offensive.

Eric, you are undoubtedly an intelligent chap, and someone who can contribute a great deal of useful technical knowledge to this forum. However, your rude, often arrogant tone is not appreciated.

You may not care for their engineering work, however the individuals that you describe are colleagues of mine, and husbands and fathers to many others.

Therefore, in future, may I politely ask you to consider the content of your posts more carefully before clicking the 'Submit' button.

Kind regards,
James
x

There is nothing more disheartening than listening to your acoustic piano go out of tune.

The Avant Grand N3 is still perhaps a tiny compromise, of sorts, but it sure doesn't feel like one, nor does it play like one.

As I said in another thread. it touches my soul. No other instrument I own or have ever played, does that as successfully, except my Hammond B-3.

I will never buy an acoustic again, now that the digital piano has literally come to life. Never again will I have to listen to a single key playing a three note dissonant chord as the poor thing drifts out of tune for the umpteenth time.

The acoustic piano is now headed for the same fate as the triceratops and brontosaurus as far as I'm concerned. I know I won't miss it.

Snazzy

That's got to be the funniest thing I have ever read on this forum.

I haven't laughed so hard since my mother-in-law fell down the basement stairs.

I love this place!

Snazzy

James, you've been nothing but tolerant of my ranting, even when it is directed at you, and I thank you for that, you are a true gentleman. If you have read anything racist into my rantings, I can assure you that is not the case (as least as I am aware). And I'm sure the engineers you work with are fine family people who are fun to be around.

Anyway, here is my question to you: What is the reason why we don't have a recording quality DP right now at a reasonable price - what gives? Could you ask the guys you work with? I'm really not trying to be a big meanie, and I'm seriously very interested in any response you can give. Do they need suggestions as to designing new product that will accomplish this? I'm incredibly unhappy with the current offerings from all major DP manufacturers, they are so far from state-of-the-art that it's criminal.

If you don't like the products being offered, then don't buy. Or, build a better one yourself. Or, just buy something else.

No one here can design or build or produce a piano of any sort, never mind a DP that would satisfy you. If you want the market to move in a different direction, talk to the manufacturers.

But the ranting is getting old. Give it a rest.

Mmmmm...so this has gone on before. I'm relatively new here, and I really thought this guy couldn't actually be serious.

I thought it was some kind of tongue-in-cheek joke.

Very unusual behavior.

Snazzy

Excuse me, but that's I'm doing! I'm talking to KAWAI James! Did you miss the KAWAI preceeding the James?

I'm pleading with a representative from the DP industry to build what I want, what could possibly be clearer?? Lord...

LS35A, I too get tempted periodically, even though I'm
sold on digitals and think they are the best thing that
has ever happened in the piano world. Digitals have
literally been my salvation as a pianist, and I owe
everything worthwhile that I've achieved in piano to them.

Those tempting moments do not last long. I don't
want something that weighs a ton in my apt., that I
have to tune and fix constantly, and that will have
the neighbors at my throat--they can't even stand my
digital, even though I play it with the volume turned way
down.

I have had an expensive acoustic upright in storage for
many yrs.; a similar model today would be in the ~$20,000
price range. But it stays in storage because my $600
economy digital serves better for practical everyday playing.
I can play anything on it, from jazz to concertos.

This argument that one needs an acoustic piano to
progress is invalid in my view. Note that silent keyboards
were introduced in the late 19th century. A silent keyboard
is like a digital with the power turned off. They allowed
a pianist to play anytime and anywhere without disturbing
people, enabling a concert pianist to develop better technique,
and save his ears and nerves at the same time. So the basic
idea behind digitals is not new at all. Silent keyboards used
to be very popular with concert pianists in the 1930's.
Claudio Arrau used on all his life.

Forget about acoustic pianos. You've already got the best
equipment available to a pianist today in your digital.

Hey Gyro,

What is your acoustic? You've mentioned all your digitals many times, but never what is the elusive $20,000 acoustic lurking in storage.

And, why don't you sell it?

I didn't miss a thing. KJ works for Kawai, but I don't think he's in a position to make marketing decisions for them.

But even if he were, you could discuss this without all the invective. KJ found you to be "needlessly offensive". Likewise.

Good for you! I'm also looking at acoustics (a grand in my case) though mine is a few years off. I never understood why people have to like digitals *or* acoustics!

For me, the dream situation is a good digital for 50-60% of the time, after hours and the horrible-sounding grunt work when starting a new piece, and the acoustic for finishing, voicing and the simple joy of playing.

I also agree that the digital piano industry must be in the second-last place regarding innovation (last place being the acoustic piano industry )

MacMacMac, in actual fact I do work within the marketing section, however our responsibilities primarily involve developing owner's manuals, brochures, and other materials. The kind of decisions that dewster wishes to pursue are typically made by the product development team, who work in another building.

Kind regards,
James
x

Boxijie, this is one of the
expensive brands. It is a
studio upright, the high-backed
kind that you'd see in a
teacher's studio. I bought
it in the early 1980's for
around $6000 US, which was
very expensive at the time;
the same model today would be
in the ~$20,000 price range.
This was the first piano I
bought as an adult restarter.
It was very good, with a superb
sound, but it didn't help my
playing any, as I had hoped, and
I became very disillusioned with
it and put it into storage, where
it has remained till this day.
I don't want to mention the
brand because it is a proud name,
and people might be offended
by how I've treated it.

I don't sell if for a number
of reasons. First, I do feel
a certain amount of pride in
being the owner of a "$20,000"
piano. There remains the possibility
that I might take it our of
storage some day. The owner
of the house where I'm storing
it is not on good terms with
me and would make things difficult
if I tried to remove it. The
last time I checked on it,
about a yr. ago, I was shocked
at the insect damage that it
had sustained, which might
not be easily repairable.
I should treat it for the
insects, but the owner of
the house won't let me do it.
Fumigating companies won't
guarantee their work, and so
I'd have to move it to my
apt. and treat it there, which
is just not practical in my
small apt. It has significant
symbolic value to me where
it rests now. It is there
to remind me that you can't
improve your playing by buying
an expensive piano, and if
I can't play something on
my economy digital, then I
won't be able to play it
on anything else either.