Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1325908 - 12/15/09 12:22 PM Just purchased a Roland RD 700GX, now what?
Sprout Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Kansas
Hello,

I'm new to the board. After reading a lot of reviews and feedback, I ended up going with the Roland 700GX.

I have heard that piano sounds on Rolands weren't great (some say that they are), and unfortunately, I am finding that to be true. However, I'm hoping that it is simply and amplification problem. I find the sound to be a little "muddled".

However when I played and listened at Guitar Center (with borrowed headphones from them), the piano sound was awesome, I thought.

Currently I am running through 1 Roland CM-30 Cube Monitor. Would purchasing a second one fix that? Am I running stereo through a "mono" set up?

I think I also skimped on the headphones, which was a mistake, methinks. I purchased Sennheiser (which seemed to be a well-reviewed brand) but I got pretty much the bottom level I think-- EH150 for 30 or 40 bucks. Could these headphones be a problem? Any recommendations?

Also, the damper pedal cord seems to be a foot or so too short. It would be fine for a sitting position, but standing, it seems just a bit too short. Anyone else find that?

This is my first leap into the digital piano world--a pretty big leap, I know... but I found the Roland on clearance at Best Buy... just seemed to be too good of an offer on too well-reviewed of a DP to pass up.

Any advice/suggestions would be welcome. Thanks

Sprout

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / Roland
Special Financing on Digital Keyboards

Click Here


#1325927 - 12/15/09 12:52 PM Re: Just purchased a Roland RD 700GX, now what? [Re: Sprout]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Yes, those $40 headphone are junk. I don't care about the brand name. A got some for free when I bought the DP. I con't figure out why I'd want them.

The best deal on headphone right now are the AKG K240 for $99 at Sweetwater. Get a pair of those. They are 1/2 the price of any comparable headphone.

As for the speaker. All "keyboard amps" are not so great. and yes you do need two. What you want are "studio monitors". Expect to pay between 1/2 and 1/3rd the cost of the DP for the monitors. Then you will need to experiment with speaker placement. It depends on the room you are in, the floor material (hardwood or carpet) Do you aim them upward to the ceiling, place them near the wall or spaced out from the wall? Maybe even buy a second pair to place on the floor under the piano? Speakers and their placement are the most critical part of the piano, speakers are what makes the sound that you hear. I would not be surprised at all if you end up with four speakers. And YES speaker placement is as critical as selection. You have to work with both.

How to pick them? Go to the store and listen. Bring a CD recording of solo piano music and play it on each speaker and take notes of what you can and can't hear in the music with each speaker. Be sure and listen to a few that are double your budget just to get a feel for what can be done. Expect to spend a few hours in the stores and bring a cd you are very familiar with and know every note. When you listen see if you can "hear the room" the recording as made in and if the sound seems to be coming from a piano or from speakers.

Apply this same test to your Roland "micro cube". Play a CD through it. Does it sound like a real piano is in the room? Is the bass clear or muddy. I'd expect the Steinway on the CD to sound as bad as your DP on that speaker.

Another way to select and place speakers is to play with those K240 headphones and then switch to speakers and listen to the difference. Change things until there is no difference. With good headphones, the sound should appear to be coming from the piano and not the headphones, in other words the headphones should "disappear". The same applies to speakers. If they sound like speakers then you need to change something or accept the fact that you can't afford to make the change. But high-end head phones allow anyone with $99 to experience near perfect sound.

Top
#1325944 - 12/15/09 01:30 PM Re: Just purchased a Roland RD 700GX, now what? [Re: ChrisA]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Sprout,

What are you needing the sound system for? Is it for gigging, or is it purely a home setup?

If it's for home, consider the Logitech Z-2300 stereo 2.1 system. It's under $200, and it is incredibly good for keyboards. 200 watts, and astonishing sound.

It has two satellite speakers and a sub-woofer. You can mount the satellites on the wall on either side of your instrument.

If you're in a band and need a good amp for on stage, the Traynor K4 is awesome, and is also stereo.

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

Top
#1325950 - 12/15/09 01:40 PM Re: Just purchased a Roland RD 700GX, now what? [Re: snazzyplayer]
Sprout Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Kansas
I'm looking for something fairly versatile. I plan on doing small gigs, like in smaller churches. And then, just something so that it sounds less muddled at home.

I don't think I'm really interesting in mounting anything. I'd like something more mobile.

I've already purchased on CM-30, since I couldn't even listen to the Roland without some sort of amplication, so I want something to go with that. It seemed like people used it for small PA systems.

I'm in a small band and we occasionally do some slightly bigger gigs. I might actually use it as a monitor for those kind of things.

I also was surprised at how big that Roland is. It didn't fit in my Corolla very well. I don't really want huge speakers also--I also gotta get a guitar in my Corolla for some of these smaller gigs.

Sprout

Top
#1325958 - 12/15/09 01:50 PM Re: Just purchased a Roland RD 700GX, now what? [Re: Sprout]
dailyjazztweets Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 55
Loc: Seattle, WA
Hi Sprout and welcome to the board! My digital music system is a Roland GX700 with a pair of Mackie MR 5 monitor speakers. Next step is to connect external devices, including a computer with Apple Logic Express software.

Stay in touch,
_________________________
Jim

eLearning Mashups
DailyJazzTweets

Top
#1325959 - 12/15/09 01:52 PM Re: Just purchased a Roland RD 700GX, now what? [Re: Sprout]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Sprout,

What about another CM-30?

That would give you stereo.

The CM-30 is a great little speaker, and puts out a nice full sound, considering it's size.

It just doesn't have a long throw as it is basically meant as a monitor, but it would work well in small venues...two of them would do fine.

Can't you get stands for them? A buddy of mine uses two old single braced X-Stands, open just enough to hold the speaker.

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

Top
#1325966 - 12/15/09 02:00 PM Re: Just purchased a Roland RD 700GX, now what? [Re: snazzyplayer]
Sprout Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Kansas
well, snazzy, that's what I was thinking, but would I get a clearer sound from that? ... before I dump down $200 more bucks... this DP thing is an expensive little hobby, ain't it?

I'm obviously no audiophile... I just want it to sound nice. smile And full.


Sprout

Top
#1325992 - 12/15/09 02:44 PM Re: Just purchased a Roland RD 700GX, now what? [Re: Sprout]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: Sprout
well, snazzy, that's what I was thinking, but would I get a clearer sound from that? ... before I dump down $200 more bucks... this DP thing is an expensive little hobby, ain't it?


No it's not. DPs are dirt cheap compared slepping an acoustic piano to gigs. Even compared to watching TV, DPs are cheap. My wife spent 2 times the cost of a DP on an Sony LCD TV set and spends $5 to rent a move and who knows what on cable. My hobby costs less then half of hers.

Sound is also relative and hugly non-liner. If one brand X speaker system is weak then running two of them in stereo "only" doubles the sound. Doubling means a 3db boost.

As it turns out, the way human hearing works is that we are just able to notice a doubling. When the sound pressure level goes up by less than a factor of two we can't notice the change (without a careful A/B test) This is why we measure sound using a the logarithmic decibel system.

Sound engineers work backwards from a desired volume level at the listener's location and spec speakers and amps based on that. You need to eather learn how to do that or find a good retailer you can work it out for you.

As a reference point a real grand piano can be as loud as about 96db. To do the same with speakers there are many options (1) use some rather huge pro-audio drivers and a smaller 20W tube based amp or (2) some smaller monitor type speakers powered by a 200W solid state amp. (3) some in-between compromise. Any competent engineer can work it out for you. You just have to tell him.


Edited by ChrisA (12/15/09 03:34 PM)

Top
#1325998 - 12/15/09 02:54 PM Re: Just purchased a Roland RD 700GX, now what? [Re: Sprout]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Well the two CM30 together will add a little bit more bottom end, and the sound would be much better (full), considering your keyboard is stereo.

You must remember, that the effects used in your keyboard are designed to sound their best in stereo...things like stereo chorus, delay, rotary speaker are best heard in stereo.

The CM-30's aren't all that loud, so they'd be pushing hard in a medium sized room.

How many in the band, and is there a live drummer? That's going to make a difference.

The more info you give, the better chance you'll get the proper advice and recommendations.

For something more powerful, the Traynor K4 keyboard amp is designed to be used on stage by a keyboard player.

It is stereo and it is quite loud, and I must say, the quality is excellent. It's not meant to be a P.A. system, but rather a monitor speaker for your keyboard. It has line outs so you can plug into the main PA system.

You can Google it and check on prices.

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

Top
#1326006 - 12/15/09 03:12 PM Re: Just purchased a Roland RD 700GX, now what? [Re: snazzyplayer]
Sprout Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Kansas
Chris A,

I'm not sure that the sound is weak from the one CM-30. I'm wondering if I'm cramming stereo sound into a mono speaker. Does a second one allow the sound to "expand," "breathe"? You are using some technical language for me.

Snazzy,

Well, the band that I was in hasn't had a drummer for a few years... and we've never had piano before, that would be a new element. I've been playing guitar/mandolin, but I've been taking lessons for a few years on piano, and played a couple smaller venues with piano and I'm ready to do more with piano, less with guitar/mandolin.

We have a gig coming up in February... the "senior circuit" so I don't know if the sound has to be all that clear... there's a lot of hearing aids. smile

We're working on forming another little group, but we're not sure what that will look like. Probably a couple of guitars, hopefully bass, piano. I doubt there will be a drummer.

I know that you get what you pay for, but the Traynor K4 does seem pretty pricey. It also looks large. I've just got my Corolla to pack everything into. smile

Most of my gigs will probably not have a "PA" system. I'm thinking like a "coffee house" type concert in a church (I'm a pastor). Not a big "mega-church"--smaller 300-400 seaters (I would expect maybe 50-100 people, and I'd probably ask them not to sit in the back! smile ). I'll have to "lug" everything in my Corolla.

For this little "concert" idea that I have, I want to play some on guitar (I have a Crate amp, that has gotten me by fine for several years) and some on keyboard. Maybe down the line I can think bigger, but I'm on a somewhat limited budget... I'd like something to get me through a few little performances, and then maybe expand on that.

Is this helpful?

Sprout

Top
#1326010 - 12/15/09 03:14 PM Re: Just purchased a Roland RD 700GX, now what? [Re: Sprout]
Sprout Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Kansas
ps--the little "concert" idea that I have, would be me solo.

Top
#1326014 - 12/15/09 03:21 PM Re: Just purchased a Roland RD 700GX, now what? [Re: Sprout]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Is there any way of trying out another CM-30 along with what you have? Just so you can hear if there is any noticeable difference.

The two CM-30's will make your RD700GX sound fuller, no doubt about it.

I know where you're coming from, and I do hear some people getting by at smaller venues using a pair of CM-30 for a small PA system, but they were using an arranger type keyboard and the microphone was plugged into the instrument.

Perhaps someone else can jump in and add something else you can try.

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

Top
#1326030 - 12/15/09 03:53 PM Re: Just purchased a Roland RD 700GX, now what? [Re: Sprout]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: Sprout
Chris A,

I'm not sure that the sound is weak from the one CM-30. I'm wondering if I'm cramming stereo sound into a mono speaker. Does a second one allow the sound to "expand," "breathe"? You are using some technical language for me.



The way human hearing works is that we can hear two things at once if they are not co-located. Have two people talk at once when they are standing shoulder to shoulder and both 20 feet away from you and they are hard to hear when they talk over each other. But have them stand 20 feet apart and you can pick one out even if both talk at once.

I think stereo helps the same way, the notes get spread out over space so that the litener can then take advantage of the fact that he has two ears and some powerful phase detection circuits in the brain.

In a band you can do even more to help the listener. for example make sure the keyboard is not in the same octave as the bass player and keep the bass and keys speakers separated by some distance. Same goes for the vocalist. Engineers do that same kind of thing when they mix a CD. They pan the instruments to different spots. Makes each one sound more clear. Stereo can help if it is used correctly
.
I don't know about the combo amp you have, never tried one. But if you are playing outdoors to a crowd you will need a surprising amount of power

Top
#1326165 - 12/15/09 07:37 PM Re: Just purchased a Roland RD 700GX, now what? [Re: Sprout]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Raise the lid, by turning the alpha dial, and the sound will brighten and be less "muddled".

Lawrence
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

Top
#1326183 - 12/15/09 08:19 PM Re: Just purchased a Roland RD 700GX, now what? [Re: Melodialworks Music]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
I would suggest you get into the hobby of speaker building. You can build a speaker 10x better than you can get almost anywhere for 1/10 the price. And it's fun.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#1326689 - 12/16/09 02:09 PM Re: Just purchased a Roland RD 700GX, now what? [Re: dewster]
JcSr56 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/09
Posts: 58
Loc: Va
Sprout,
Only you can say what is a great sound to you; but I have the 700gx, and although I have some expensive phones too; it came with the cheap Sennheiser phones, and even with them, I get a very nice sound out of the GX.

When not using phones, I run mine through a small mixer-through an Emu 1212m audio system-into a pair of KRK 2nd gen Rokit 8's(8" monitors), and the sound is very good.I could get by without the Emu 1212m if I wanted to, but I use the system to link to my DAW. Obviously there are even better options out there, for more bucks.

I have never heard a keyboard amp, other than a Motion Sound amp, that I thought sounded really good.JMHO! If you can swing it, the studio monitors will probably get you where you want to go.
Don't give up on the RD700gx; it's a very nice DP when you get it mated with the right sound system. Good luck.
John
_________________________
guitar player for 48 years, and started playing the piano 16 months ago.

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
119 registered (anotherscott, Aviram, AZNpiano, accordeur, aesop, 37 invisible), 1426 Guests and 18 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76042 Members
42 Forums
157224 Topics
2309193 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Blac
by Aviram
09/01/14 11:56 PM
Blackbird - Piano Cover - The Beatles
by Aviram
09/01/14 11:49 PM
Kawai CA95 Recordings
by wolferblade
09/01/14 11:32 PM
soviet upright piano "LIRICS"
by Maximillyan
09/01/14 11:22 PM
Question about 1975 Steinway L
by mahlers2nd
09/01/14 09:02 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission