Thank you.

Will hear the sound file again and review last tuning.

The National day is dark. 38 death in a ship crashing. They are after sea food meal on the way to see firework.

Hi Weiyan,

I have found an article in the web, with other details. I'm very sorry for that.

Should you send me a link?

Sure, let me know if you could get these articles:

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/02/world/asia/hong-kong-ferry-crash/index.html

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90882/7966959.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444223104578035831636313780.html

Regards, a.c.
.

Thank you. I got the links.



Very bad tuning, besides the thirds have some progression.

The base:
A3-E4: beats faster than 1bps, too fast
E4-A4: beats ok
A3-D4: Ok
D4-A4: 1bps, too fast

A3-A4 too narrow

Thirds:
A3-C#4:Ok
A#3-D4: OK
B3-D#4: slow
C4-E4: faster than previous interval, may ok.
C#4-F4: has progression, may ok
D4-F#4: slower than previous interval
D#4-G4, E4-G$4, F4-A4: has progression, has a feeling of too tense.

Fourths:
A3-D4: OK
The rest: seems progressive, but the feeling is too tense.

Fifths:
A3-E4: OK.
The rest: has progression. This is not CHAS. The feeling is very tense. The beat rate may be ET fifth, the feeling is not fifth.

Correction:
Better to tune again from ground.

You are welcome, Weiyan.

My comment (in brackets):

The base:
A3-E4: beats faster than 1bps, too fast (yes)
E4-A4: beats ok (yes)
A3-D4: Ok (not wide enough)
D4-A4: 1bps, too fast (re-listen, D4-A4 is Ok, both D4 and A4 want to go up)

A3-A4 too narrow (yes)

Thirds:
A3-C#4:Ok (yes, a hair slow/sweet, more normal for G3-B3)
A#3-D4: OK (slow, slower than A3-C#4)
B3-D#4: slow (not bad at all)
C4-E4: faster than previous interval, may ok. (slower/sweeter than previous, slow)
C#4-F4: has progression, may ok (yes)
D4-F#4: slower than previous interval (yes)
D#4-G4, E4-G$4, F4-A4: has progression, has a feeling of too tense. (D#4-G4,(sweeter than previous) E4-G$4,(tense) F4-A4 (sweet))

- . - . - . -

You say "too tense"... In general, let's consider that thirds and all F-BI's get very tense (progressively, (going up the scale)), and that is how "variable tensions" can neatly translate into "variety of color"; F-BI's get "too tense", that is why (going up the scale) we check wider intervals (F-BI's), like 6ths, 10th and 17ths, easier to "read".

At this stage, do not ask yourself to order D#4-G4, E4-G#4, F4-A4. Instead, start comparing 6ths, first A3-F#4 and B3-G#4, and then the other two. Use "tone-distance" also for comparing very fast thirds, it gets easier ((?)let me know).

- . - . - . -

Fourths:
A3-D4: OK (not wide enough)
The rest: seems progressive, but the feeling is too tense. (C4-F4 and C#4-F#4 sound Ok, play (and rec) a little longer; D#4-G#4 beats much faster, I'm sure you can hear that)

Fifths:
A3-E4: OK. (too fast, make it calmer)
The rest: has progression. This is not CHAS. The feeling is very tense. The beat rate may be ET fifth, the feeling is not fifth. (tune A3-E4 closer to "Just", avoid beating like C4-G4, tune D4-A4 narrow-just)

- . - . - . -

I need to say that Chas (s=1) works as a reference only; your tunings will stand for yourself and you are doing very well.

Regards, a.c.

Thank you.

Today has a net term "tone distance", what's this?

Tuning better, like playing piano and writing calligraphy is for personal enjoyment. Not all piano can tune to the precision required by CHAS.

Tune again today.

Example: The "distance" between E and F is a semitone; the "distance" between C and D is called a "tone"; B-C, C-C#, C#-D, D-D#, D#-E, E-F, F-F# etc., are semitone distances; B-C#, C#-D#, D#-F etc. are tone distances.

Two "tone-distance" thirds example: C-E, D-F#.

Enjoy your tuning, a.c.
.

Today's tuning.

It seems worse than previous tuning because this is first pass. I am learning to trust my ear and hand.

Will review it tomorrow.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-12-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-12-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-12-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-12-oct-2012

The base:
A3-E4: OK
E4-A4: Seems beats ok, seems too just. The interval may reversed.

A3-D4: Little bit slower
D4-A4: OK
A3-A4: too wide

Thirds:
A3-C#4: OK
A#3-D4: Ok
B3-D#4: slow
C4-E4: Ok
C#4-F4: ok
D4-F#4: slow
D#4-G4: slow
E4-G#4: slow
F4-A4: ok.

Fourths:
A3-D4: slow
A#3-D#4: fast
B3-E4: OK
C4-F4: fast
C#4-F#4: little fast
D4-G4: Slow
D#4-G#4: slow
E4-A4: seems ok

Fifths:
A3-E4; OK
A#3-F4: OK
B3-F#4: fast
C4-G4: fast
C#4-G#4: ok
D4-A4: wavy, too fast

Follow the tuning sequence fine tune it with respect to the wrong intervals.

Perhaps email would be more appropriate for this conversation?

Only purpose I see to dump this interarction here is to get hits on the keyword "CHAS".

Kees

This is second pass of previous tuning. Move a tiny hair if possible. I play the note while pushing up or pulling down the. In most case I can hear crack sound and feel the pin move. Not sure if this technique is stable. Confirm the direction of interval by slightly pushing up twisting the pin, then set back.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-13-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-13-oct-2012
B3-D#4 sounds strange
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-13-oct-2012
D#4-G#4 sounds strange
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-13-oct-2012
A#3-F4 seems very fast.

The perception of beat rate not the same between recording and the piano. Sometimes there are many "layers" of beats. Should I listen to the fundamental only?

Happy weekend.
Weiyan

Hi Weiyan,

My comment (in brackets) follows your review:

The base:
A3-E4: OK (hmmm... lots of movement)
E4-A4: Seems beats ok, seems too just. The interval may reversed. (yes)

A3-D4: Little bit slow (yes)
D4-A4: OK (tune it closer to just)
A3-A4: too wide (I'm not sure, inverted?)

Thirds:
A3-C#4: OK (a bit sweet)
A#3-D4: Ok (yes)
B3-D#4: slow (yes)
C4-E4: Ok (very very tense)
C#4-F4: ok (sweet)
D4-F#4: slow (very tense)
D#4-G4: slow (Ok)
E4-G#4: slow (yes)
F4-A4: ok. (a bit sweet)

Fourths:
A3-D4: slow (yes)
A#3-D#4: fast (yes)
B3-E4: OK (a hair slow)
C4-F4: fast (yes)
C#4-F#4: little fast (yes)
D4-G4: Slow (yes)
D#4-G#4: slow (yes)
E4-A4: seems ok (slow, tune it around 2-3 bps, double check the base-intervals side)

Fifths:
A3-E4; OK (lots of movement)
A#3-F4: OK (yes)
B3-F#4: fast (yes)
C4-G4: fast (yes, very fast)
C#4-G#4: ok (yes, a hair too just)
D4-A4: wavy, too fast (yes)




http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-13-oct-2012

A3-A4: inverted?
A3-E4: Ok
E4-A4: Too just
A3-D4: Little bit slow
D4-A4: Tune it closer to just

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-13-oct-2012
..."B3-D#4 sounds strange"...

Very good, you have improved your previous tuning, nothing wrong with B3-D#4.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-13-oct-2012
..."D#4-G#4 sounds strange"...

D#4-G#4 is too just, as for the rest I'll wait for your review.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-13-oct-2012
..."A#3-F4 seems very fast."...

Very good, A#3-F4 is a bit too narrow, check C#4-F4... sweet. If you like, review this too.

..."The perception of beat rate not the same between recording and the piano."...

Yes, good training.

..."Sometimes there are many "layers" of beats."...

True.

..."Should I listen to the fundamental only?"...

In general, follow the main beat, the louder, the most evident: so doing, depending on the interval, you'll be listening to the matchings of the smallest partials.

To All, have a nice Sunday, a.c.
.

Although I am interested in following Weiyan's progress with aural tuning, I agree with DoelKees about email contact being more appropriate for this kind of detail. Weiyan, please inform us of your general progress from time to time.

Thanks for the support.

To get M3's to be progressive has nothing to do with CHAS, even if CHAS existed (which I argue does not).

I consider this thread to be 100% SPAM.

Kees

Alfredo and Weiyan are entitled to communicate in this thread however and whenever they like just as anyone else is entitled to ignore the thread if they dislike the content.
No member of this forum is forcing anyone else to endure reading anything at all. If you are of the opinion this thread 100% spam why are you commenting here? Most people I know ignore or delete spam. They do not return repeatedly to read more.

Quit stalking me, Silverwood.

Kees

It's really pretty easy...

Click on the user's name...
Click on "View Profile"..
When their profile comes up, there are four options above their profile information...
Click on "Ignore this User"

I've been CHAS - free ever since!

Do it. It's very empowering.

Chris S.

Thanks for the suggestion. Problem is that I am still interested in CHAS discussions, which is why I follow this thread.

All I see here is what should be private emails between a student and his teacher, covering very basic things like hearing beats. It has nothing whatsoever to do with CHAS.

If it's really of interest to anyone else they should make a special "teaching" thread.

Alfredo had a habit of taking posts from other threads and replying to them in some CHAS thread. I believe this is done to
create the impression CHAS is an active topic of discussion. I think the recent content of this tread is a manifestation of the same practice.

Kees

This from a rank beginner.

Do you realize how wonderful it is for the novice to have daily lessons on hearing intervals, keeping track of subtle differences?

They sure don't post the like over on the pianist or piano corners of the forum.

This is the place I come for that, and it's extremely valuable for me to hear these things... ear training, a lesson a day.

I do appreciate this thread.

Forrest

Great. Put it in a thread without a misleading title.

Kees

I am sorry for making some members not happy.

In my understanding, talking about practical method is the original intention of this thread. Its state on the first post.

I began practice this tuning method and keeping on nearly daily post some months ago, no one told me my posts are spam.

Tuning thirds progressive is not the only objective of C.HA.S. In C.HA.S, thirds and fourths are progressive, fifths are regressive to near pure. Its near Pythagorean tuning. This is an novice understanding. Correct me if I am wrong.

A3-C#4 OK,
A#3-D4: slow
B3-D#4: OK
C4-E4: Slow
C#4-F3: slow
D4-F#4 OK
D#4-G4: OK
G4-G#4 slow, near pure
F4-A4 slow

A3-A4 may too narrow.



A3-D4 ok.
A#3-D#4, B3-E4, C4-F4: progressive but too fast.

C#4-F#4: OK, may be too slow.
D4-G4, D#4-G#4 sloer.



A3-E4 OK
A#3-F4 very fast, better say its third
B3-E4: same as above
C4-G4: near pure, too just
C#4-G#4: Move too soon, too narrow
D4-A4: OK, but reversed.

Need to improve hammer skill. Keeping steady slow move can hear the change in tone.

Hi,

This is the third pass. I had micro moved some pins. Wait until tomorrow to check the stability.

The octave interval named base to avoid the irritating key word CHAS.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/base-15-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-15-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-15-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-15-oct-2012

I found keep a longer distance from the string to my ears, I can hear voices of two notes blended together.

There is no reason to justify why you are here Forrest. Just continue to learn in the way that you wish to, by reading here and comparing your work. I am sure there are others doing the same but remain silent.



It is not necessary for you to apologize to anyone for your postings Weiyan. Just ignore the postings from the self-anointed moderators of the world who have nothing constructive to offer.

Thanks for your clearity, Dan.

- . - . - . -

Hi Weiyan,

Let's see your own review, my comment in brackets.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-13-oct-2012

A3-C#4: OK, (yes, it sounds Ok but it is sweet, more tipical for a lower third)
A#3-D4: slow (faster/better than previous)
B3-D#4: OK (yes)
C4-E4: Slow (Ok)
C#4-F4: slow (slow/sweeter than previous)
D4-F#4 OK (yes)
D#4-G4: OK (yes)
G4-G#4 slow, near pure (check, it's only sweeter than previous)
F4-A4 slow (yes)

A3-A4 may too narrow. (yes)

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-13-oct-2012

A3-D4 ok. (slow, too close to just)
A#3-D#4, B3-E4, C4-F4: progressive but too fast. (not progressive, A#3-D#4 is much too fast)

C#4-F#4: OK, may be too slow. (fast)
D4-G4, D#4-G#4 sloer. (yes, too slow, also E4-A4)

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-13-oct-2012

A3-E4 OK (yes, very nice)
A#3-F4 very fast, better say its third (simply a little fast)
B3-E4: same as above (Ok, nice)
C4-G4: near pure, too just (Ok, nice)
C#4-G#4: Move too soon, too narrow (check second (simultaneous) playing... quite nice)
D4-A4: OK, but reversed. (yes, little too narrow)

You wrote:..."Need to improve hammer skill. Keeping steady slow move can hear the change in tone."...

Yes, slowly move your hammer... follow the beat-rythm, feel the pin, its torsion, how it is bending... you want to evaluate and control those forces in order to counter-charge each pin.

Next:



The base is much better, D4 is a little high, which is good (!), you would remember that and adjust it later. The same for A4, it is a little too wide and you would adjust that later.

The thirds progression is quite impressive, very good indeed... "Hair" review the above, a nice challenge.

- . - . - . -

Forrest, if you like, you too can be active here.

- . - . - . -

Have a nice day, a.c.

Listen to the sound file again, still need to improve a lot.

BASE:
A3-E4, E4-A4 too just.
A3-D4, D4-A4 OK
A3-A4: OK.

Thirda
A3-C#4: OK
A#3-D4: fast
B3-D#4: OK
C4-E4: seems slow. May be the string has problem, not easy to hear.
C#4-F4: OK
D4-F#4: Slow
D#4-G4: OK
E4-G#4: OK
F4-A4: slow.

Fourths:
A3-D4: OK
A#3-D#4: Slow
B3-E4: OK
C4-F4: OK
C#4-F#4: slow, beats same as above.
D4-G4: Slow
D#4-G#4: OK
E4-A4: slow

Fifths:
A3-E4: too just
A#3-F4, B3-F#4, C4-G4, C#4-G#4, E4-A4 OK.

Hammer skill. A major obstacle need to overcome.

Thanks.

Micro adjusted some interval yesterday.

Hear to the piano directly. The sound file have different perception and there may some pitch change in these few days.

This exercise aimed at the micro hammer technique.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/base-24-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-24-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-24-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-24-oct-2012

Hi Weiyan,

Let's see your self review, my comment in brackets:

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/base-15-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-15-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-15-oct-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-15-oct-2012

BASE:
A3-E4, E4-A4 too just. (A3-E4 is Ok, E4-A4 is a bit wide)
A3-D4, D4-A4 OK (A3-D4 is a bit wide, D4-A4 is Ok)
A3-A4: OK.(a bit wide, perfect to begin with)

Thirds
A3-C#4: OK (yes)
A#3-D4: fast (Ok)
B3-D#4: OK (yes)
C4-E4: seems slow. May be the string has problem, not easy to hear. (Ok, tense)
C#4-F4: OK (Ok, sweeter than previous)
D4-F#4: Slow (yes)
D#4-G4: OK (yes, tense)
E4-G#4: OK (yes)
F4-A4: slow. (yes, a little bit)

Fourths:
A3-D4: OK (yes)
A#3-D#4: Slow (yes, too just)
B3-E4: OK (yes, a little too wide - see C4-E4)
C4-F4: OK (yes, a little slow)
C#4-F#4: slow, beats same as above. (yes)
D4-G4: Slow (not sure)
D#4-G#4: OK (yes)
E4-A4: slow (yes, A4 has gone down)

Fifths:
A3-E4: too just (this is Ok)
A#3-F4, (too just - see F4-A4) B3-F#4 (Ok), C4-G4 (a hair too just), C#4-G#4 (Ok), E4-A4 OK (a hair too narrow (*)).

(*): Try to invert the above fifths progression.

- . - . - . -

As you can see, you have done very well. I'm very impressed and I would say... Do trust your ear, compare (as a reference) the beat rate of adiacent intervals, relate your hammer and whole body to beats. "Hammer skill" takes time, micro-adjustements will help for both beat-curves and unisons.

If you like, you could add the recordings of higher octaves and 10ths, like A3-C#5, up to the first 12th (A3-E5). Make sure the outer strings are well-muted. And train your "beat-map" memory, so that you may be able to correct two (or more) intervals with only one move.

Next:



You wrote:..."there may some pitch change in these few days."...

Actually, pitch changes occour also while we are tuning, for this reason you may prefer to stay a little bit... higher... as long as you remember where.

When ever, you may review the above.

Best regards, a.c.
.

Sorry for not review last tuning.

For preparation of higher octave, retune the temperament and add two more test.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/base-1-nov-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-1-nov-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-1-nov-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-1-nov-2012

A3-C#4, A3-F#4, D4-F#4. Should they progressive in C.HA.S?
A forum friend suggest this test. Not sure if this test valid for C.HA.S.
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/3th-6th-test-1-nov-2012

Four sixths within A3-A4. They should be progressive.
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/sixths-1-nov-2012

Not review above tuning yet. Going to higher octaves and post tenths later.

Thank you.