To my ears, increasing string resonance doesn't help the sound of the CP5. It starts to sound fake and reverby beyond a medium setting.

I wonder if what's going on is that there are so many new concepts like modelling and the new action, and they are not developed enough yet. It sounds and feels to me like there is more work to be done.

Mychal

There is always a rational basis behind perception, the rub is in figuring out what it is.

IMO, the CP1/5/50 AP sound is thin and linear sounding because:

1. The decay samples are too short and overprocessed. I believe they are overprocessed precisely so that can be made very short, so these things go hand-in-hand.

2. The sympathetic resonance effect is too simple to add realistic depth to the sound.


Yes, they've done some very nice things. Though I think they're straying a bit lately and losing focus. All too easy for large companies to lose their way these days. Perhaps one issue is the sheer number of models they offer - I wish they would cut back and concentrate on fewer.

This is exactly the case on our P120. Sympathetic resonance is so central to the whole piano sound, it shouldn't be half-assed. I want to turn it up and have the thing get more lush and dreamy. Why does Yamaha keeps using the same lame algorithm year after year?

Thanks guys. And Dewster, you get a gold star for the DP BSD project. Quite a contribution you're making. Nice job! I called my sales guy and had him switch my order to either the RD-700GXF (he hadn't even heard of this but is checking with his rep) or the RD-700GX with SuperNatural (in stock), if they are the same, whichever is cheapest. I am so in love with that DP's enhanced piano sound, despite how aesthetically ugly its physical form is to me.

We came really close to getting one. The Memorial day sales were almost too powerful to resist . Even the stock pianos in the GX don't sound bad to me, though the SN pianos are quite amazing. The user interface is quite intuitive and everyone seems to like the keys. The strings sound very nice.

The main niggle I have with it is the placement of the pitch bend / mod stick - nothing should make a keyboard wider than it absolutely must to be. Though we probably wouldn't cart it around much so that's not such a big deal I guess. PHA III / more pipe organs would have pushed me off the fence.

The other day at the local Sam Ash I saw a GX for $1999. Granted it was a floor model and pretty beat up, but you might be able to get one out of the stock room for that price.

Yeah, he had a beat up floor model GX too, but the new GXF is still in my budget. Oh crap, forgot to negotiate $! lol

Minus five days and counting.....



Funny thing is, he called me right back and said right after he got off the phone with Roland, the CP5 walked in the door. He's going to audition the two side by side for me and let me take the one I want.

I thought it would be interesting to see what the first post was in this thread.

I definitely don't want to bag on Yamaha. I have a 22 year old Yamaha stage piano that still works great. And I just replaced it with a Yamaha stage piano. But it's none of the three new models. I'm buying a brand new CP33, and I'm stoked about it. I like the way it sounds, and I like the way it plays. And I love the way it fits in with my other gear, and what I'm trying to do.

I had a CP5 here for three weeks, and I'm sure for some people it's great. But I love my new 33!

Mychal

One thing you can say about some of the current generation DPs is that they have personality - the good, the bad and the ugly!

Lawrence

I don't think you were bagging, but I guess that might be semantics. Because there's a dearth of user reviews on the Web seemingly beyond availability, I say the more opinions the better. Rest assured your experience only buffered my decision a little. That said, anyone finding themselves influenced by my decision should stop and consider the source. I'm merely starting a serious journey into the piano world.

Fwiw, I don't think we've wandered from the OP at all. If I'm in error, I appologize.

I'm glad you are finally finding the Yamaha that fits your requirements, Mychal.

Me too!

I'm loving it as a master keyboard. Simple, straightforward, and well thought out. Not enough functions no doubt for some people, but perfect for me.

I hope you like your new keyboard as much!

Mychal

As a sound tech I get very happy when I see a CP-33 on stage. That will make my job much easier! This Yamaha is just wonderful in a mix and excellent by itself also!

Your job would be even much easier, if it had XLR outputs, like CP1/CP5 from Yamaha, or 700GX/700SX/V-Piano from Roland, or SV1 from Korg. I hope it will become more popular, and it looks so.

That's great to see that I'm not alone in thinking this is a nice keyboard. I've been wondering about it for a while, but never thought to really check it out.






Here's an interesting thing - the sustain pedals on the CP5, CP300, and CP33 are exactly the same. It's the same pedal. The power on/off switches on the CP5 and CP33 are identical, or nearly so. The bottom construction of the CP5 and CP33 looks very similar. It's pretty funny how Yamaha tech support told me the new CPs are totally different from the older ones, and yet they share these, and no doubt other features.

Mychal

He was probably talking about the modeling feature and not the physical structure of the cabinet or the on\off switch. Modeling is a new feature and creates sounds in a different manner than the CP33 and CP300.

Placement of the hammer strike in the Rhodes and softness of the hammer for the acoustic samples comes to mind.

From my email from Yamaha Tech Support:



That's pretty clear. They are "quite unrelated." That sounds like a lot more than just the new modeling feature.

From the same email:



Not only does the Master Mode come secondary, it is dead last in my opinion. What a strange tack to take for what I'm assuming is a keyboard intended for professional use. Is Yamaha saying that the onboard sounds on the CP5 are so extraordinary, and so complete, that a keyboardist would never need any additional sounds to be triggered by this keyboard? Are they contending that it is so solid on its own, that it doesn't need even decent controller capabilities?

If that's the case, I dispute it. I don't believe the onboard sounds are sufficient, and any context I would use it in would require that it be able to send external midi cc, and control that information sufficiently from the keyboard.

The same part knobs (faders) are on the CP5, in the exact same location as the CP300. The volume knob is next to those part knobs, the same size and location as the CP300. The switches to call up performances are in the same location as the 300, and there is the same 5 band eq, in the same place, only again using knobs instead of faders.

The sustain pedals are the same (literally, the exact same pedal), and there are many other similarities as well. What motivated Yamaha to subtract features from their next generation CP is a mystery. But whatever the reason, they are giving me back $1600, because in my opinion their CP33 is a much better instrument.

Mychal

Wow, the sustain pedals are the same, the on\off switch is the same, the bottom construction looks very similar ... and yet Yamaha tech support has the gall to say they are totally different.

What were they thinking?

Are you being serious? Really?

Yup. There is a lot more in common between the keyboards than you listed above. You left some of what I mentioned out, and I don't have the time or inclination to try and list it all.

Suffice to say it's around three to four years since the last generation of stage piano came out (the CP300) and they update them about that often I believe. The front panel layout of the CP5 is taken directly from the CP300, with some exceptions like the pwr amp, etc. The additional sounds (strings etc) are very similar, and about the same quality (so-so).

But really, if you or others prefer the touch and tone of the new CPs, that's great. It probably does just come down to a personal preference, and what the keyboard will be used for. Mine is largely in the context of a live band, and I dug the sound of the older one better. But that didn't come as a surprise. I've got a Korg Trinity instead of a Triton, because I think the older Korg sounds better. I've come to believe that things just come together better on some models, for a variety of reasons. Newer does not necessarily mean better. Sometimes older models are superior to newer ones.

Mychal

I have to disagree. The additional sounds of the CP5 have nothing in common with the XG sounds from the CP300. The new collection sounds to me very much like the Motif series. Also with two effect blocks you can make a lot out of the basis sounds (remember the Power Amp is used for the other sounds as second Mod Effect). Quality overall is high in my mind.

When Yamaha talks about making a complete new instrument, I believe they refer rather to the technical features than the panel layout. Feature and sound wise the CP5 is a huge step forward compared to CP300/CP33. Of course everything is a question of personal taste, but fact is that the range of Rhodes, Wurlis, DX and CP80s sounds plus the ability to tweak sounds using those dedicated Rhodes and DX effects including amp simulation are very cool features and never seen in a Yamaha stage piano before.

Some words on piano sounds: I fully agree that some of presets could have been better. At the beginning the plain CFIII and S6 sounded too dull in my mind. The whole world changes if play around with it. First I turned off the Master Compressor which was a big improvement when playing with headphones. Second I increased the VelDpt and VelOfs (4th page of editing menu) just a bit and the sounds began to shine. Absolutely love the S6 piano.

A last word on the keyboard. I was a bit irritated in the beginning about the rather light keyboard. I used to play the P120 and the CP33 and always loved Yamaha’s GHS keyboards. But the new wooden keyboard (even though it seem not or just a bit graded) really grew on me. It is very precise and gives you a good feeling playing it. It might not be the number one choice for playing classical music, but it is the perfect keyboard for on stage. Since there are so many other sounds like Rhodes etc. it is an advantage not to have the typical heavy GHS keys. I remember playing the old P120 a whole night and having the feeling my fingers would break off. That doesn’t happen with the new wooden kbd. I think that’s what you have to keep in my mind. If you plan on playing mostly Mozart and Bach at home get a Clavinova or a P155.

I have to say I absolutely love the CP5. Best stage piano I have ever owned and I tried a lot of them.

But the P-120 had GH(E), not GHS!

Mychal, Yamaha has used a very similar layout on many of their pianos. I bought a Clavinova many years ago that had the same basic layout of my P250, CP300 and even my CP5.

While the layout may be similar, the real difference is in the control the user has over the sound.

I'm not going to be a spokesman for Yamaha, I have already voiced my criticism of the default CP5 piano - four notes that are noticeably louder when played at a ff level, but I do have more control over the sound with my CP5 than I did with my CP300 ... and it's a smaller package.

I have never been 100 percent happy with any piano, whether it is my CP5, my AvantGrand, my C3 or that Clavinova - they all have something that could be improved.

GHS or GHE3 or whatever they call it. I meant the graded hammer keyboard they used in the recent P and CP300/33 series.

Well, GHS is the lighter entry-level action, whereas GH/GHE/GHE3 are heavier and found on more expensive instruments. I prefer GHS over GH/GHE because of its lightness. So don't ire the GHS lovers here by confusing GHS with GH.

I agree about the panel layout.

The same positioning of switches/knobs/sliders/ only means that they were in the most ergonomically correct place to begin with.

Ditto the use of similar/same type of switches...not just cost saving, but, quite likely, the best for the job.

Automobiles do similar things with their dashboards, especially companies like Honda, who are the best at designing an excellent driver-centric instrument panel.

GHS, which is on my P-85 is different than the P-120 and CP-33, and it's also a nicer feeling action to me, as well as to several other players on this forum.

I thought the CP-5's action (same as CP-1) was perfect for a stage piano...it has to feel equally good controlling Rhodes and Wurly patches as it does when playing the acoustic piano sounds. It does that task admirably, and I feel they've hit on the ideal combination.

My beef was that the instruments are still a bit too heavy.

I had a CP-300 that I loved, especially the flat top which could hold another keyboard, but it was far too heavy for solo gigging....the CP-33 is very nice, and I might even purchase one in the near future, if I don't get a P-95.

Congratulations on your CP-5.

Snazzy

Ok, folks. I'm on my second CP-5 in a month. I returned the first one because I noticed a distinct light popping/clicking sound in some keys some of the time. The Yamaha tech told me something might have been damaged in transit.

So. New CP-5, same problem! Different keys, but on occassion I will hear and feel a tiny pop when pressing or releasing a key (mostly E closet to middle C).

What's the deal? For a week I had almost convinced myself I was hearing my own fingernails tapping the key surface. But I've been able to isolate this pop with the power off just pressing with the pads of my finger. (Lifting the key slightly beyond its resting position can sometimes bring out the pop after pressing down again).

Is this just bad luck? Could my local Guitar Center be receiving a batch of bad boards (they arrived at the store about three weeks apart). Has anyone noticed anything like this?

I really love this DP and would hate to have to return it for another with the same stupid problem. I'm thinking about returning it for an RD 700-GXF. But though it seems everyone praises those, I can't get over how unattractive they are. Like some kind of dinosaur from the skinny tie 80s rather than the CP-5's more appealing 70s asthetic. And I love the CP-5's action, which works for AP, EP and organ sounds as stated above.

Thoughts?

Ok. The additional sounds on the 5 are probably somewhat different than the 300. What I meant was that like the 300, they fall short of what can be achieved by controlling another tone generator. They sound small to me in comparison, and I wouldn't have gotten much use out of them. In that way they are similar - decent, useable, but definitely inferior to other sounds that can be achived via midi. Which brings us back to the problem of Yamaha restricting the ability of the CP5 to be a controller.

As for the amp, mod, and preamp blocks, what good is the ability to change lots of parameters if the sound is still going to fall short of what other keyboards can do without all the tweakability?





I think it's inherent to the keyboard. I could hear those same sounds on mine when it was here. I don't think it means the keyboard will deteriorate quicker over time, but who knows? It's a brand new action, whereas the previous GH Yamaha actions are proven over time. My feeling is that the new lighter action of the CP5 is less refined and dialed-in than the action on the CP300 and CP33. The older action is heavier, but for me at least, I like the overall playing experience of it better.





I am loving how lean and mean the 33 is. To me, it seems like keyboard makers should be concentrating on this size and weight of keyboard, because it's a tremendous benefit to a gigging musician to have gear be as light and small as possible.

Mychal

While the CP33 does not have XLR outputs (to the best of my knowledge), the CP300 does have balanced XLR outputs as well as 1/4" instrument outs. We've been extremely happy with the CP300 at our church (my wife is the pianist/organist there). It is used mostly in the choir room, but we do move it to the sanctuary for some services and we run it through my personal keyboard gig rig as the house sound system has some pitiful Mackie self powered speakers (with absolutely not enough power to provide headroom for transient peaks)that don't do well with any electronic keyboard I've tried there.
Clyde

This sound very strange to me. The Mackie activ speakers I´ve been around has the capability to produce way over 100 dB, more in the range of 120 dB. There must be something else that is incorrect. Maybe the gain structure is all wrong so that the input stage is overloaded?


Peace

Every part of the system is gain staged properly, the problem is the small amp in the Mackies, trust me on this. I started playing in bands back in the '60s, so I've set up a system or two in my time. Makes no difference whether you use the CP300, my SY77, SY99, or someone elses P80, the results are the same at whatever input gain level or instument volume level setting you try. Granted they are very small and several years old Mackies, but IMHO they aren't worth having. Kind of like someone's sig on another forum, "The only thing I'd run through a Roland KB amp is a chainsaw", substitute Mackie for my needs.
Clyde

If it's the 300's (Mackies) they do crap out like that because they have some sort of self protection limiting built in that kicks in on the transients...I tried one of them at a gig once and it was unusable on pianos and things with a lot of transient info..the 450 however work great at gigs I've had a pair for years now and they produce tons of output with none of that issue but they also don't have the limiting thing built in

Thanks! I did not know that!