I wonder if we're hearing the same thing. To my ears, this doesn't sound normal at all. Just wrong. Broken. Faulty. Not right.

I can understand a piano, even a DP making some sorts of noises at the key level. They are physical things attached to a sophisticated action mechanism. But these sounds I'm hearing are not regular or uniform. They only come from certain keys some of the time. The flat, friendly flump of most of the keys with the sound off gets interrupted by high-pitched pops that sound like something loose or not aligned properly.

If this is the way things are, I guess I'll live with it. The fact this is my second CP-5 to make these sounds, maybe that's the case. But I can't help thinking a brand-new expensive instrument should not make these noises. And the Yamaha tech seemed to support this notion.

Has anyone else heard anything like this on a CP-5 -- or any other DP for that matter?

Maybe we're not. The CP5 keys definitely made more random kinds of noises like you're describing than the CP33 I just bought, or my 22 year old Yamaha stage piano. But I figured it was because it's a brand new action that Yamaha has never used before, and maybe those sounds are just going to happen because of the way it's designed.





If a Yamaha tech thinks there might be a problem, then I can see why you would be concerned. Why did you choose a CP5 for your digital piano? Maybe you would be happier with a different keyboard. There are a lot to choose from, many with long standing proven keyboard actions that you might be more comfortable with.

Mychal

I didn't actually speak to the tech. I spoke to a service rep who relayed my description to the tech, who then left a message on my voicemail. So I plan to call back and see if we can better confirm the source of what I'm talking about.



When I started looking in February, I liked the P-155 and the Roland FP-7. But since the new CPs were coming out, I waited, thinking I'd get the CP50, which was more in my price range.

But when I finally played a CP50, I had a lukewarm reaction to the plastic keys and the heavier action. I loved how the CP-5 felt and looked and sounded and decided to hell with my price range.

The piano sounds are great, much better than the crap I've been playing for 18 years. The EPs sound great to me too. And the even weight of the keys works for all varieties (I play rock, blues and jazz and have little need or want for a perfect grand piano simulated feel).

The RD-700GX would be my next choice, but I can't get passed how unattractive it looks. It sounds great. And it's a little silly to put so much into asthetics. But this is something I play at home exclusively. And it needs to look like it belongs.

So that's where I'm at. I love the CP5 but am worried it has a flaw in its action. Or maybe I'm being too sensitive. After all, what comes out of the speakers should be what matters most. And this is really only something I can hear and feel when playing. Such a tiny little occassional pop. But a big nuisance. Like a little pebble in the world's most comfortable shoes.

I'm curious. What, specifically, do you not like about the look of the RD-700GX?

I'm curious myself, as to what is such a turn off with the 700gx's looks. As far as I can see; with the exception on the aluminum/chrome strip that runs the length of the keybed; they are both just black casings with a few knobs, and buttons on them.

Now I do understand that some folks like Chevy's, and some like Fords,ect,ect, but I gleaned from your statement that you almost find the 700 appalling. To each his/her own, but I too, was just curious enought to ask what you meant. I think they both look appealing in their own individual way.

Perhaps I'm overstating my distaste for the looks of the 700GX. It's fine, I guess. But compared to the retro 70s elegance of the CP1/5, there's no contest. The CP-5 looks like it belongs on a stage sticky with beer, enshrouded by pot smoke. The 700GX could be played by someone in the 80s wearing a skinny tie with piano keys running down the length.

A matter of taste, as they say. And the look does affect the playing experience. Otherwise, why would metal guitar players go for those flying V monstrosities?

I quite like the fact that the RD tapers at the front...like a shallow wedge (in height terms) - and the end cheeks emphasise this shape. I like it and think that it looks like it means business. I find the CP300 for instance just a slab...too deep at the front. Haven't seen a CP5 or 50 so can't comment but if they are as deep at the front as they are at the back then that would turn me off.

My criticism of the RD's appearance would be the additional length required for the pitch-bed/mod control. If only I could hack off the six or eight inches on the left hand side! It's especially galling because I've never even touched the pitch bend thing since I've owned it and never will. But you can't have everything can you? I do wish they'd done a Yamaha with the pitch-bend/mod wheels though...nice discreet wheels above, not beside, the keys.

Cheers,

Steve

You can program one of the sliders on the RD-700GX to control modulation to get around the lack of mod wheel. I've done this for using programs like Omnisphere, where a majority of the patches use modulation. A spring-loaded mod level is rather useless for most applications.

I also like that the fact that there is less depth. Makes it easier for us old timers to read from a music desk, or computer screen.

I'd rather have more (useful) knobs, switches and sliders. The lights are also effective - use also know the state.

As an aside, I'm REALLY not sure why the CP series only has the pitch wheel. Apparently Yamaha did not have any musicians on the design team.

I had a chance to play the CP50, CP5 and RD700GX (not supernatural) alongside each other very briefly yesterday.

Surprisingly, I liked the CP50 the best. I found the 50's action more to my taste than the 5, although not quite up to that of the 700. I think the dislike of the 5's action is probably due to years of playing graded hammer, and being a little disconcerted by the 5's light and even feel.

I really didn't think that the 5 sounded $800 better than the 50 (although I know it has more sounds/effects), and I was surprised that the Roland sounded rather muddy by comparison. I didn't have headphones with me, so a lot of that may have been down to the amp and speakers. But I have been more of a Roland fan in recent years and so have a little bit of in-built bias towards Roland products. This time the Yamaha AP sound won me over.

The interface on the Yamahas was not intuitive IMO, and that put me off. I spent more time on trying to get where I wanted than playing. I know I'm old and slow, but I like buttons that tell me what they'll do if I press them - and then do it!

EPs were OK, but I think I still prefer both my Electro 3 and GEM Prp800. I recently loaded the new Nord V5 piano library into my Electro, and I'm stunned, particularly by the new Steinway sample. If the Nord had a weighted keyboard, I don't think I'd be using anything else - and what an easy board to navigate.

Anyway, I don't think I had enough time to get to grips with the new Yamahas, but I know I won't be going that route. If I didn't have a good gigging board, I'd be tempted by the CP50, but there wasn't enough on offer to make me want to change my current lineup. And as for the RD-700GX, I actually prefer some of the sounds of the RD-300SX, which sound a little crisper (although the 300's action is poor in comparison).

voxpops, slightly off-topic, but have you tried the Nord Piano?

I really like the look of this, although I would obviously miss the organ component of the Electro.

Cheers,
James
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No, James, I haven't tried the Nord Piano, unfortunately. Living in a relatively small town in Oregon, it's hard enough finding the good stuff from the Big Three, let alone more esoteric offerings from smaller manufacturers. However, I'm convinced by what I've heard from the new Nord piano library that the NP will be very good indeed. The Stage EX can also use the same library, and that has organ as well.

Given the ongoing debate on these forums about fixed samples in hardware vs. software modeling/samples, the Nord range offers a very good compromise. The ability to download both OS and sample updates gives these boards a much longer useful life, and makes the initially high purchase price seem much more reasonable over the life of the board. It's a shame that the Electro 2 can no longer benefit from these updates, but I suppose, eventually, progress makes everything obsolete. Already I'm finding the memory on the E3 insufficient for all the goodies I want to have at my fingertips - and it's 8-times the size of the E2!

I wish I had time to do a DPBSD recording - hopefully I'll get to it eventually. It would be interesting to upload both the Nord and the GEM for analysis.

Wow, really? And the Nord Piano has nearly three times as much as that, right?

Man, I'd love to upgrade to the Electro3, but am just not playing regularly enough to justify it (plus I just spent a load of cash on a new bike, so...).

Cheers,
James
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Just show the boss all the work and time you put in on this forum, and then ask for a raise!

I'd still like an XK-3c, but you really can't beat the E3 for all-round wholesome goodness.

To be perfectly honest, my contributions to this forum are not technically part of my job description. I participate here partly because I love talking about DPs and partly because reading about the latest developments helps me to do my job more effectively.



You're absolutely right. The Nord gear is a little bit pricey, but you really can't fault their products.

Cheers,
James
x

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Dave,

Thanks for that. My few minutes (mainly spent struggling with the interface) was insufficient to really put these instruments through their paces - and I suspect that the CP5 wasn't in its default configuration. They were both nice, but it seems a little like we're reaching the point of diminishing returns with DPs and that the expected big leap forward is not really happening - just small incremental improvements.

Has this link been posted before?

http://www.yamahasynth.com/jp/library/cp1_5_50_jp/ig/index.html

Really sexy!

Cheers,
James
x

Compilations Tuto - Yamaha CP5 almost everything .... but in French
http://www.audiokeys.net/forum/showthread.php?23766-CP5-Yamaha-Tout-savoir-Compil-de-liens-utiles

Summary of links:
- Videos quality
- Testing and analysis comparisons
- High resolution photos
- Fly-Transport Case
- Tips and Tricks Programming
- Survey for transmission to Yamaha for improvement
- Establishment of a community of users CP5
- Editing Software Mac / PC for editing / Swap, copy, bank performance

I finally was able to reach Yamaha and talk to a knowledgeable tech support rep about the major difference in the CP1 vs CP5, and why the CP1 was so much more expensive. Apparently there is a lot of difference in the internal hardware and tone generation chip sets between the two. He got into it but a lot of what he was talking about was over my head to be honest. The "ultimate" piano tone according to him is from the CP1, but the CP5 adds other synth tones to offset the fact that it's sampling hardware is inferior. I've not been able to hear them side by side, but I was just curious why there was such a major price difference.. that answered it for me.

Hm... that sounds reasonable, but I still do think the main part of the difference is due to marketing. I can hardly believe that the higher grade electronics in the CP-1 as well as the somewhat more refined housing would cause the more than 2,000€ difference.

Recently, I had the chance to compare CP-1, CP-5 and CP-50 virtually side by side. I found the basic CFIII and Rhodes tones remarkable close across the three boards – and I would attribute a significant part of the differences to the unhappy combination of a weaker headphone amp in the CP-50 and rather "hungry" headphones (AKG K-271).

From an exclusively sonic perspective I could have been entirely satisfied with the CP-50, but I wasn't too happy with its rather stiff keyboard action that didn't allow the remarkably smooth dynamic control of the CP-1 and CP-5.

So I went for the CP-5, which should be here in a couple of days ... :-)
But, as always, your impressions might be different.

In terms of the main AP voice (CF) I did a comparative analysis of the CP1 and CP5 here. The voices are essentially the same, though there may be differences that slipped through the cracks of my testing. I'll grant them the fact that there are internal hardware differences but, as andi85 points out, almost certainly not enough to justify the huge increase in CP1 price.

And "inferior sampling hardware" sounds like a snow job to me. Corporate types tend to treat all of us not sharing their special insider status like know-nothing rubes, which I find rude in the extreme. Tribalism like this will be the death of us all.

Every time I walk into my local music shop, the keyboard guy and I always strike up a conversation about why Yamaha even made the CP1, when you get so much of the CP1 in the CP5 at lighter weight and nearly half the cost. I personally really liked the CP5. As a gigging musician, and knowing how good Yamaha's sound live, the CP5/50 would be my first pick if I didn't have my NP88.

I agree...CP5 was always quite tempting for me too - I'd still like to have a proper try on one. Don't forget that CP1 also has a true FM tone generator in it...this must account for some of the additional cost and no doubt the need to position the CP1 in an aspirational part of the market accounts for the rest - don't forget it was released in the wake of the similarly priced V-Piano and Yamaha would have wanted the market to believe it had an equivalent product to Roland's new flagship. I don't buy the idea that the CP5 is in some way intrinsically inferior in terms of its componentry.

Steve

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