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#1336606 - 12/29/09 09:35 PM Re: AvantGrand: new video reviews [Re: ArtVision]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
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_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP4, CP5 (home use) , RCF TT08A, TT22A speakers

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#1336643 - 12/29/09 10:28 PM Re: AvantGrand: new video reviews [Re: Dave Ferris]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris


The Yamaha rep points out how they are running the N3 through the Neve Console and back over the monitors in the booth from the Aux. outs on the N3. The Yamaha rep guy is playing some low octave things and "My foolish heart" for a second. RW is in the control room listening and you can hear the sound coming back over the monitors pretty well. It does sound big through those speakers but also more electronic to me.

Randy shortly hops back on the N3 in the tracking room and starts playing again..the sound from the Avant speaker system is now being captured once more. In a sense they are A/Bing the sound source---I don't think that was the intention and probably a lot of people won't pick up on it. I think it sounds more forward and realistic with less an electronic vibe through the Avant speakers.

So that tells me it's less a ground breaking sample but more the way they've integrated the internal speaker system to get the overall effect of playing a Grand--and of course the Grand Piano action like on my GT-1 only probably more refined I'm sure.


I want to consider the Avant, but I do want an instrument for recording, and what you describe is exactly what I've determined - that Avant will not be effective for audio line out recording. The magic will be lost.

Lawrence
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1336670 - 12/29/09 11:07 PM Re: AvantGrand: new video reviews [Re: Melodialworks Music]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP4, CP5 (home use) , RCF TT08A, TT22A speakers

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#1336724 - 12/30/09 12:25 AM Re: AvantGrand: new video reviews [Re: Dave Ferris]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2207
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
This dealer has the N3 on the floor, I'd still like to give it another shot.


Perhaps you could take a good set of headphones with you, and tell us how it sounds through the headphones.

Greg.

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#1336771 - 12/30/09 02:08 AM Re: AvantGrand: new video reviews [Re: Melodialworks Music]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music


I want to consider the Avant, but I do want an instrument for recording, and what you describe is exactly what I've determined - that Avant will not be effective for audio line out recording. The magic will be lost.

Lawrence


Lawrence,

The Avant Grand is not for you. It's a total experience only when playing it, in my opinion.

Yes, the piano sound is sumptuous, but it is still only a superior bit of sampling, coupled with the excellent tactile feedback, that makes it have the soul I've described in other posts.

You'd be better off sticking with your V-Piano...especially if they do an upgrade to fix the mids, or perhaps maybe the new Yamaha CP-1 will be the one for you?

I did not buy the Avant Grand with even the remotest intention of recording...it would be like taking a movie of you driving behind the wheel of a fine motorcar...you'd hear the sound, but you wouldn't feel the thrill.

Snazzy
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1336860 - 12/30/09 08:29 AM Re: AvantGrand: new video reviews [Re: snazzyplayer]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: snazzyplayer

Lawrence,

The Avant Grand is not for you.
Snazzy


I agree. I would be better off putting at least some of the 20K saved into better monitors, better convertors etc. - and still have some money left over to take the wife out for din-din!



Edited by Melodialworks Music (12/30/09 08:31 AM)
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1336914 - 12/30/09 09:55 AM Re: AvantGrand: new video reviews [Re: Melodialworks Music]
snazzyplayer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 983
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted By: snazzyplayer

Lawrence,

The Avant Grand is not for you.
Snazzy


I agree. I would be better off putting at least some of the 20K saved into better monitors, better convertors etc. - and still have some money left over to take the wife out for din-din!



When I played the Avant Grand, it was love at first play, and even though I spent several more days trying it, I knew in my heart that the old Steinway B was going to be replaced by this fresh new upstart from Yamaha.

The V-Piano was also a big consideration, but since I play mostly in the middle, it's slight bit of synthetic sound in that range, kept me from committing. Also, it feels just like any other high-end Roland that's using the same action, although the response is definitely keener.

I'm not a VST guy...I prefer the instrument was just that...an instrument, not a video game controlled with a controller...again, absolutely no tactile feedback...nice for those who like to tinker.

With the V-Piano and Pianoteq, most people(especially me) would end up after much tinkering, finding two or three settings that totally appeal and would be what was used for 99% of playing...I already have that in my CP-300, Avant Grand, and the lowly but lovely P-85. These instruments have a sound I already love (for different reasons) as that is why I picked them. I don't care if I can change their sounds...I don't have the need.

Sometimes the allegedly best instrument is not the TOTL...I just sold my Tyros3 and replaced it with a PSR-S910...the sound of the latter is "sweeter" and I love having built in speakers...the S910's are very good, although I still pump it through the Logitech Z-2300 sometimes. and I love the light synth action, which suits the instrument's purpose much better, in my opinion.

There I go, skidding off the topic.

Lawrence, I hope that Roland does the right thing and beefs up the mids a little (it's not that they are awful). It seems that modeling has problems with certain areas, and I hope that the boffins at Roland can overcome that tiny bit that some of us have noticed, and the V-Piano is sounding as it was intended to sound.

Snazzy

PS. A middle-aged guy is out to dinner with his wife to celebrate her fortieth birthday. He says, "So what would you like, Julie? A Jaguar? A sable coat? A diamond necklace?"

She says, "Glenn, I want a divorce."

He says, "I wasn't planning on spending that much."
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)

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#1338536 - 01/01/10 03:20 PM Re: AvantGrand: new video reviews [Re: snazzyplayer]
Nebster Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 8
I spent two hours yesterday auditioning the N3 and N2. Other than noodling on our
I thought I would share a few observations, however novice (and naive) they may be.

First, they are clearly wonderful machines. There is some incredible engineering that has been applied to create the sound and experience one gets when sitting at these instruments. I am a beginner piano player, but I have spent enough time with a Steinway D in an excellent performance hall to know what I am usually missing.

In reference to some recent discussion here, I found the "line out" sound through my headphones to be a weak interpretation of the live experience. It is clear that the speakers are interacting with the enclosure(s) to color the sound in many interesting ways. Even the N3 lid has a significant impact on the sound -- I had to set it to the smaller opening to get the best sound.

That brings me to the room. I guess it is obvious that the room has a big impact on even a synthetic instrument like this one. The showroom was a doozy -- octagonal, concrete floors with thin carpet, high ceilings, 60Hz buzz in the overhead lamps, and so on. I found the N2, placed against one of the walls, to sound much better in certain registers despite its smaller enclosure and fewer speakers. I also put the N3 in demo mode and walk around the instrument. I'm sure the room had some impact, but I found it much easier to say "this is not a real, physical piano" during this time than when sitting at the keys and playing. I believe the Avant plays some wonderful psychological tricks on you when you are seated at the keyboard.

Clearly, wringing the maximum experience from these pianos will require careful attention to room dynamics and placement. With but a dash of trepidation thrown in, I am a little excited at the thought of trying one of these out in my home.

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#1338911 - 01/01/10 11:46 PM Re: AvantGrand: new video reviews [Re: Nebster]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
Hi, I'm new to this forum. I've had an N3 for about 4 months now. I'm just a beginner player but I bought it actually for my college-age daughter who's the more advanced player in the house.

Anyway, I think the comment about how the room impacts the sound is very spot-on. We have wood and tile flooring in our open great room (with kitchen included), and our ceiling is as high as 16 feet in the middle. So the room is quite reverberating already and I find the N3 (which is placed smacked in the middle) sounding better with the built-in reverb turned off. However, every time you cycle on the N3, the default for the built-in reverb is ON again. So more often than not, we play with the reverb on because we just don't always remember to turn it off upon power up. I think it would also help with cutting down the reverb if we put a rug under it, but we don't want to bother because it's really not bad, just a little bit more reverb than we'd like, that's all.

But regardless, I think the situation with the room placement has nothing to do with the N3. It's just a general issue that would affect any grand piano anyway, acoustic or digital. My brother has an acoustic grand and he's had to put a rug under his to control his sound & ambience as well.

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#1339469 - 01/02/10 07:59 PM Re: AvantGrand: new video reviews [Re: snazzyplayer]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: snazzyplayer
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music


I want to consider the Avant, but I do want an instrument for recording, and what you describe is exactly what I've determined - that Avant will not be effective for audio line out recording. The magic will be lost.

Lawrence


Lawrence,

The Avant Grand is not for you. It's a total experience only when playing it, in my opinion.

Yes, the piano sound is sumptuous, but it is still only a superior bit of sampling, coupled with the excellent tactile feedback, that makes it have the soul I've described in other posts.

I did not buy the Avant Grand with even the remotest intention of recording...it would be like taking a movie of you driving behind the wheel of a fine motorcar...you'd hear the sound, but you wouldn't feel the thrill.

Snazzy


OK. So if I shift my thinking to the idea of recording the Avant Grand using a microphone, or microphones, then would your advice change? (I'm of course talking about getting my audio engineer in to setup mics, set levels etc. I certainly would have no knowledge of how to record using mics, except I know enough to get in an experienced expert with an excellent ear.)

Lawrence
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1339503 - 01/02/10 08:57 PM Re: AvantGrand: new video reviews [Re: Melodialworks Music]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
I wonder if someone can help explain in more layman terms the following feature called the Soundboard Resonator as described on the Avant-Grand.com website as follows:

"In addition to the four-channel multi-speakers, the AvantGrand also features a flat-panel "Soundboard Resonator" where the music stand would be when laid flat, allowing a more subtle reproduction of the buildup of sound felt by pianists when playing a grand piano. An oscillator called a "transducer" transmits vibration to the flat-panel soundboard, giving a realistic sound response that is especially evident in the higher range. (Only as for N3.)"

Does exactly does this mean? Do you only get this effect when laying the music stand flat, otherwise you don't? Is it trying to mimic how the sound from an acoustic differs with the music stand down as opposed to when it's up? Thanks.


Edited by Volusiano (01/02/10 08:58 PM)

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