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For starters, I understand that some certainly think it is silly or pointless to try to answer this question and perhaps not without good reason. Since this kind of response has been given to almost every "greatest" thread at PW, maybe it can be avoided here? Also, please define "greatest" however you want to. If it means "favorite" for you use that definition etc. I mean this thread to be based on the composer's piano works(solo and concerti)only, so please only consider those in your ranking. IMO there are only three candidates:Rachmaninov, Scriabin, Prokofiev. I guess a few might say Medtner, Shostakovich, Stravinsky, or even Mussorgsky but for various reasons I wouldn't put them in the same category. As much as I like the three I gave as my top ones, my top two would be definitely be Scriabin and Prokofiev. If I had to choose one it would be Prokofiev. My reason(I hope you'll give yours also)is I think he wrote at least three great piano concerti(I don't know #4 and #5)and Scriabin's only concerto is almost never performed(I don't know it either). Or maybe it's because I just finished watching this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfkE6pFr4QE&feature=relatedSo please give us your vote, preferably with your thinking on the matter. I guess it's only natural, but I've found Russian pianists particularly love these composers.
Last edited by pianoloverus; 12/25/09 03:24 PM.
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None of them would've been possible without Tchaikovsky! (And his piano works are unjustly neglected outside Russia.)
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) www.pianoped.comwww.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed
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As someone who's been immersed in Scriabin, the main thing I wondered when I saw the thread was whether you'd even include him. I'm pleased to see that you have him among the "finalists." If, as you say, we can define "greatest" however you want, that leaves it wide open. It seems that most "serious" musicians define it mainly in terms of influence. Certainly most music historians do, probably most musicologists too, and I think most performers as well. Most of the public, on the other hand, probably sees it as, who wrote the music they love the most. Maybe a lot of people would put it in terms of "most beautiful." So, I think there's little doubt that the "public vote" would be won by Rachmaninoff -- who would probably be in last place in the vote of historians and musicologists. [edit: After seeing Kreisler's post, I realize that I just "forgot" about Tchaikovsky!! He'd vie with Rachmininoff for the "public" vote. And he'd be pretty low on the historian/musicologist vote too.]I think Scriabin was the most "creative" and most original. Was he "influential"? I don't really think so. I think it's much like late Beethoven -- how much did that influence anyone? I guess it's hard to tell. Scriabin may have had more influence on jazz than on "classical" music, although I'm not sure about that either, and if so, that adds to his "greatness." I think among "serious musicians," the top 2 would be Stravinsky and Shostakovich, probably in that order. Oh.......I'm supposed to VOTE? I can't really, because I don't know how to define it. But since the one who interests me the most is Scriabin, by far, I guess I'll say him. One for Scriabin.
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None of them would've been possible without Tchaikovsky! (And his piano works are unjustly neglected outside Russia.) Holy moly!!! I didn't even notice he was missing!! I better add him to who might win the vote among "the public." For sure it would be between him and Rachmaninoff.
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Why, oh, why do these lists always exclude Bortkiewicz? He's not the best known, but certainly deserves to be.
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
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Why, oh, why do these lists always exclude Bortkiewicz? He's not the best known, but certainly deserves to be. Well, H., the thread is in its early stages; give it some time, and I'm sure that someone will mention Bortkiewicz! Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
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None of them would've been possible without Tchaikovsky! (And his piano works are unjustly neglected outside Russia.) Haha! I forgot to list him even as a possibility even though I recently started two threads about his music(6H Romance and Pletnev's version of the Seasons, which I think are a mixed bag compositionally).
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I only know a serious amount of piano music by Rachmaninov and Scriabin. I already knew quite some Rachmaninov, before I discovered Scriabin. Out of these two, I can't really choose. As for solo piano music I really adore a number of etudes by Scriabin that I just can't stop listening to. Then again, some preludes and etudes by Rach are just as great and express similar deep feelings. Prelude 32/10, 32/12 or etude 39/6 are just as wonderful and exotic as my favorite Scriabin etudes. Both are great in their own way, but I must say I don't like later Scriabin (yet).
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Why, oh, why do these lists always exclude Bortkiewicz? He's not the best known, but certainly deserves to be. Perhaps he deserves to be better known, but I don't think he's anywhere near the six I mentioned plus Tchaikowsky.
Last edited by pianoloverus; 12/25/09 05:48 PM.
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He can definitely be argued to be the equal of the ones you listed.
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Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
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He can definitely be argued to be the equal of the ones you listed. It's possible to make an argument about anything, but whether it will convince many people is another thing. Scriabin, Prokofiev, and Rachmaninov have been performed regularly by the greatest pianists since their works appeared. Do you think Bortkeiwicz is some totally neglected but genius oomposer? (Thracozaag plays some Bortkiewicz, but I bet if you ask him where he ranks Bortkiewicz it wouldn't very high)
Last edited by pianoloverus; 12/25/09 03:17 PM.
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I think among "serious musicians," the top 2 would be Stravinsky and Shostakovich, probably in that order. I think you mean considering their entire output. I meant my post to be considering their piano works only and I'll edit it to make that clear.
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His lack of recognition had a lot more to do with life circumstances than any lack of genius. Could you possibly provide any counter examples to the ones above? Website devoted to Bortkiewicz
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His lack of recognition had a lot more to do with life circumstances than any lack of genius. Could you possibly provide any counter examples to the ones above? Website devoted to BortkiewiczCounterexamples to a subjective opinion?
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Hmmmmmm....try that again. [...] Could you possibly provide any counter examples to the ones [i.e. EXAMPLES] above?
[...]
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I'll have to check out Bortkiewicz. I know nothing about him, but he seems to be highly regarded.
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) www.pianoped.comwww.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed
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.....I must say I don't like later Scriabin (yet). Why not check out this piece..... Scriabin 9th sonata played by somebody or other It took me decades to even start to "get" late Scriabin. P.S. If you want an "even better" performance ....check out Horowitz or Sofronitsky, but that's no fun.
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He can definitely be argued to be the equal of the ones you listed. Maybe you're right, I don't know.....but how come most people never heard of him? (Bort... whatever his name is.) I never heard of him till the other day (when I saw his name here). BTW......I can't tell if this stuff about him is serious.
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Do you think Bortkeiwicz is some totally neglected but genius oomposer?
Unfairly neglected and certainly first-rate, for me, along with other wonderful composers such as Blumenfeld, Liadov, Liapunov, Feinberg, and countless others consigned to some sort of weird oblivion due to laziness and ignorance. I'm convinced that Scriabin would also be somewhat relegated to an also-ran composer, were it not for Horowitz's vigorous championing--and Horowitz certainly could have done much to heighten Medtner's reputation here in the States, but sadly never publicly performed any of his major compositions.
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