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#1335258 - 12/28/09 07:36 AM A question concerning yamaha p155 and similar
al-mahed Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/09
Posts: 769
Loc: Rio de Janeiro
Hello fellows!

A have a question that I googled it with no results (and I did search a bit here too).

Anyway, I was wandering, after have read lots of posts (specialy from the user dewster) concerning nowadays DP technology and pianoteq software, if it is possible to have better sound in DP such as yamaha p155 and similar ones (that is, with MIDI in/out interface and USB) connecting these pianos via these interfaces to a laptop or computer, play it, and the computer do the work of emulation using the much better hardware via pianoteq software or another similar software.

That is: make the PC do the emulation work, with a lot of more processing power and better samples, than the internal DP hardware, making the PC "read" the played DP keys.

Sorry if it is a silly question but I am really new around here!

cheers
_________________________
Yamaha P155 Digital Piano
Learning since ~ JUN/JUL-2009

Working on: music

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#1335533 - 12/28/09 02:18 PM Re: A question concerning yamaha p155 and similar [Re: al-mahed]
MarkL Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/07
Posts: 728
Loc: Chicago Suburban
It's not a silly question, the advantage of a DP is that you can do exactly what you just described. So I agree with you, you can improve the sound of a DP greatly by using a software piano.
_________________________
Yamaha P90

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#1335551 - 12/28/09 02:42 PM Re: A question concerning yamaha p155 and similar [Re: al-mahed]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Yes of course you can use run software instruments on a computer. They might even sound better. But really they only sound "different". The best DPs are pretty good now. The weak link now days is the speakers and sound system not the internal sound generation.

It's a sign that the technology has matured that people will disagree about which is best.

I think the technology (even with a DP's built-in sound) today is such that you can't tell a recording made by a high-end digital from a recording made by an acoustic piano. However if you are sitting near the piano listening live you can hear the difference


Edited by ChrisA (12/28/09 02:43 PM)

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#1335651 - 12/28/09 04:40 PM Re: A question concerning yamaha p155 and similar [Re: ChrisA]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4343
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: ChrisA
Yes of course you can use run software instruments on a computer. They might even sound better. But really they only sound "different". The best DPs are pretty good now. The weak link now days is the speakers and sound system not the internal sound generation.

<snip>

I think the technology (even with a DP's built-in sound) today is such that you can't tell a recording made by a high-end digital from a recording made by an acoustic piano.

ChrisA are you baiting me? :-)

I think someone needs to take a nausea-inducing, stomach-churning tour of that most foul DP wall of shame known as Purgatory Creek:

http://purgatorycreek.com/

If you're talking stratospheric, super experimental, high-end DPs (i.e. V-Piano) then I maybe agree, but otherwise no.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1335674 - 12/28/09 05:30 PM Re: A question concerning yamaha p155 and similar [Re: dewster]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: dewster
you can't tell a recording made by a high-end digital from a recording made by an acoustic piano.

ChrisA are you baiting me? :-)
[/quote

No, I really don't think you can tell. OK maybe you can. But I ment the more general audience. In fact outside of classical music most pianos you here on the radio, in pop music and in films likely are digital. Have you ever done a blind test? Digitals have been passing blind tests now for over 20 years. But only as I said, when both go over speakers.

I put those words "high end" in there on purpose to exclude anything not intended for professional use in a recording studio.

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#1335677 - 12/28/09 05:39 PM Re: A question concerning yamaha p155 and similar [Re: ChrisA]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4343
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: ChrisA
I ment the more general audience.

Oh, well that's entirely different and I agree with that.

But isn't the original poster a potential player, someone who will likely grow tired of the current low- and mid-level DP sound offerings?
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1335774 - 12/28/09 08:08 PM Re: A question concerning yamaha p155 and similar [Re: ChrisA]
Michael Darnton Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 243
Loc: Chicago
I don't have evidence of this, but recently I bought, online, a set of recordings of Scarlatti sonatas. For a couple of days I was satisfied but over time it got worse and worse. Now I'm absolutely convinced it's a DP. A nice one, but digital, no question. This is a sample of one, sure, but I wonder how representative it is of the limits of DP.
_________________________
http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com

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#1335780 - 12/28/09 08:21 PM Re: A question concerning yamaha p155 and similar [Re: dewster]
al-mahed Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/09
Posts: 769
Loc: Rio de Janeiro
Well... I already think that a mid-range well tuned acoustic upright sounds better than any other DP I know.

Concerning the yamaha p155 the most anoying things are the dynamic range (cleary pretty much poor) and the lack of real harmonic ressonance.

BUT this is not a point against ALL the DP since once one of then fill this gap I'll be satisfied. Is there any DP that have a solution to these issues?

cheers

ps: and if I use my p155 connected to a PC with something like pianoteq behind I think perhaps these issues could be minimized, or not?

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: ChrisA
I ment the more general audience.

Oh, well that's entirely different and I agree with that.

But isn't the original poster a potential player, someone who will likely grow tired of the current low- and mid-level DP sound offerings?
_________________________
Yamaha P155 Digital Piano
Learning since ~ JUN/JUL-2009

Working on: music

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#1335792 - 12/28/09 08:38 PM Re: A question concerning yamaha p155 and similar [Re: Michael Darnton]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: Michael Darnton
..Now I'm absolutely convinced it's a DP. A nice one, but digital, no question.,,,


All modern recordings even if an acoustic Steinway is used are digital. Follow the signal patch in any studio. Mics go into preamps then feed A/D converters and from there to a computer's hard disk. Finally the data files are reviewed and edited, best takes assembled and the result is masted on a computer then final copy is burned to CD. In the end you listen to the vibrating diaphragms inside your headphones.

This is the reason I say most people can't tell the recording of a digital from an acoustic piano. So much of the process is the same.

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#1335919 - 12/28/09 11:35 PM Re: A question concerning yamaha p155 and similar [Re: ChrisA]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4343
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: ChrisA
This is the reason I say most people can't tell the recording of a digital from an acoustic piano. So much of the process is the same.

100% disagree. With sugar on top.

A real live piano performance captured via good microphones to A/D to PC to CD is absolutely not like what happens when someone performs the same thing on a DP. Almost any DP is a pale, severely compromised imitation of the real thing.

Joe Blow flunking a double blind test doesn't mean anything to those of us who listen to a lot of pianos and DPs, we who truly desire to be fooled by a DP but can't be by the current piss poor offerings.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1335925 - 12/28/09 11:45 PM Re: A question concerning yamaha p155 and similar [Re: al-mahed]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4343
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: al-mahed
Well... I already think that a mid-range well tuned acoustic upright sounds better than any other DP I know.

100% agree. It is really difficult to recommend any DP to anyone at this point. Student's parents invest in a keyboard and tend to hold onto it come hell or high water.

Originally Posted By: al-mahed
BUT this is not a point against ALL the DP since once one of then fill this gap I'll be satisfied. Is there any DP that have a solution to these issues?

I've been standing in this line for about as long as I can remember. All I can say is don't get your hopes up.

Originally Posted By: al-mahed
ps: and if I use my p155 connected to a PC with something like pianoteq behind I think perhaps these issues could be minimized, or not?

Yes. Just try not to cry over the fact that you spent $1k USD (or more) on keys alone, and $350 USD (or more) on replacing the lame sound source in your $1k USD (or more) DP.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#1335931 - 12/28/09 11:53 PM Re: A question concerning yamaha p155 and similar [Re: Michael Darnton]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4343
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Michael Darnton
I don't have evidence of this, but recently I bought, online, a set of recordings of Scarlatti sonatas. For a couple of days I was satisfied but over time it got worse and worse. Now I'm absolutely convinced it's a DP. A nice one, but digital, no question. This is a sample of one, sure, but I wonder how representative it is of the limits of DP.

You are suffering from the dangerous, yet very common illness "Digitalis Pianus Crappus". Take two aspirin, get plenty of rest, and afterward burn the CD in a satanic ritual.

You might also consider ratting out the publisher to the CDC, just to make sure.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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