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#1336086 - 12/29/09 06:51 AM Swap #=7-b
ROMagister Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/26/08
Posts: 518
Loc: Bucuresti, Romania
From another forum:
"if you want to play in flats when the music is written in sharps (or vice-versa), one way to do it is to subtract the number of sharps or flats in the music from 7, then play the same written music in the key with that many of the other type. Examples: with 4 sharps, subtract 4 from 7 giving 3 and play the same music as if written in 3 flats; music in 5 flats would be played as if in 2 sharps; etc. Note that transforming from sharps to flats will transpose the music down 1/2 step; going from flats to sharps will raise it 1/2 step. And all "accidentals" (sharps or flats not found in the key signature) are naturalized. This technique works best when the music does not have many accidentals. Except for the raising or lowering of the overall pitch, the scales remain accurate."

I've never seen this tip in any teaching book, but tested it and it works! Also proved it mathematically:
7 fifths - 4 octaves = 7*7 - 4*12 = 49 - 48 = 1 semitone.

I also knew the enharmonic equivalence of #=12-b (e.g. 7#=5b), no transposition done.

So these all reduce the burden of learning 'by fingertips' to only (edit: not 5 but) 7 major scales: A,D,G,C,F,Bb,Eb (3#...3b). Very welcome to this multitasking-limited guy!


Edited by ROMagister (12/29/09 11:47 AM)

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#1336091 - 12/29/09 07:10 AM Re: Swap #=7-b [Re: ROMagister]
Studio Joe Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 1803
Loc: Decatur, Texas
That's interesting: Thanks
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#1336126 - 12/29/09 09:17 AM Re: Swap #=7-b [Re: Studio Joe]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12207
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Hmm, that might make transposing on the fly a lot easier! I always have trouble doing this...this one definitely gets printed out. laugh
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Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#1336160 - 12/29/09 10:24 AM Re: Swap #=7-b [Re: Morodiene]
al-mahed Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/09
Posts: 769
Loc: Rio de Janeiro
In another words:

0<-->7
1<-->6
2<-->5
3<-->4
4<-->3
5<-->2

but in fact is better to think as a sum of accidentals, because in this way one may be confused if (C MAJOR - 7) might result in 7b or in 7#

the sum has to be = 7 always

x(#) + y(b) = 7
_________________________
Yamaha P155 Digital Piano
Learning since ~ JUN/JUL-2009

Working on: music

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#1336165 - 12/29/09 10:43 AM Re: Swap #=7-b [Re: al-mahed]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12207
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Now if only there were an easy way to go from A flat major to G major for example wink.
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Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#1336269 - 12/29/09 01:13 PM Re: Swap #=7-b [Re: Morodiene]
al-mahed Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/09
Posts: 769
Loc: Rio de Janeiro
Morodiene, author of the "trovador"! smile

I still hope to see the sheet music of that piece smile

weel, if you think in terms of the 5th cycle of MAJOR scales, the scheme should look like this:

C - 0# <> Cb - 7b
G - 1# <> Gb - 6b
D - 2# <> Db - 5b
A - 3# <> Ab - 4b
E - 4# <> Eb - 3b
B - 5# <> Bb - 2b
F# - 6# <> F - 1b
C# - 7# <> C - 0b


as you see the sum of accidentals is always = 7

if you go one step down the table you will find the 5th of the precedent note

but if you go two steps down the table you will find the 5th of the "pre-precedent" note

so, we can build another table going straight through note by note like this:

C - 0# <> Cb - 7b
D - 2# <> Db - 5b
E - 4# <> Eb - 3b
F# - 6# <> F - 1b
G - 1# <> Gb - 6b
A - 3# <> Ab - 4b
B - 5# <> Bb - 2b
C# - 7# <> C - 0b

you can do the same with the minor scales and then write the equivalent scales that shares the same number of accidentals, and so on...

I think the last table is more usefull to what you want, that is, transpose tone by tone and know the number of accidentals to be used

for instance, to transpose a melody in G major to E major, 2 steps down, 2x2=4 amount of accidentals down
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Learning since ~ JUN/JUL-2009

Working on: music

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#1336344 - 12/29/09 02:56 PM Re: Swap #=7-b [Re: al-mahed]
al-mahed Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/09
Posts: 769
Loc: Rio de Janeiro
Morodiene, I made a table of all scales, semitone by semitone, perhaps this could be useful

http://www.4shared.com/file/184150506/820b0fe/SCALES.html

_________________________
Yamaha P155 Digital Piano
Learning since ~ JUN/JUL-2009

Working on: music

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#1337774 - 12/31/09 10:57 AM Re: Swap #=7-b [Re: al-mahed]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12207
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
al-mahed,
Thanks for that! I think mainly the problem is actually playing in that manner. Perhaps I'm not understanding your chart, but I have no trouble figuring out the key that I should be playing in. The hard part comes in looking at a note say in G major and playing instead in F major. Everything is down one step, and that's fine if it's an easy piece with limited jumps. But when you have to jump far away which requires reading the note, then you also have to think "whole step down" after reading it.

Guess that's just a skill I'll have to practice on. laugh
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MTNA member
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Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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