Hi, we have the Yamaha Avant Grand N3 and the suspended leg for the pedals kinda moves a little bit when the pedals are depressed. Not much, maybe a few mm's, but still a little discerning because I don't know if it'd get more loose over time or not. It's been like that since day one when they delivered the piano. I checked and didn't see any loose nuts or anything on the support rods. I called and asked the salesman about it and he said it's not uncommon for those legs to give a little bit, and if it gets worse, the 5-year warranty would cover it anyway. My brother has a Schimmel acoustic grand and his pedal leg doesn't move at all when the pedals are depressed. Of course, the designs are different so it's not apple to apple comparison. But you'd think Yamaha would pay attention to such details on such a piano.

Anyway, I just put something under the bottom of the leg that's hard and snug enough to stop the movement, so it's no big deal. But I wonder if other owners of the N3 have observed the same thing on theirs or not.

Over all, we're pretty happy with its action and sound. The only thing I wish it can do is to pause and replay the midi files. A fast forward and rewind function would also be nice. It's annoying to have to always start from the beginning of a song after an interruption. I know, I know, it's not meant to be a workstation or anything like that. But still, for a $20K DP, you'd think if they provide a playback function that they'd have the forethought to throw in a pause and FF/RW as well.

Also, if you provide an USB port for midi files, you should have a display for file names instead of just meaningless file #s so people can choose which song they want from a memory stick. I find the extra ability to play midi files from a memory stick very nice in doubling its use as an automatic playing grand. I can load all the classical music pieces I like on a USB stick in midi format and play them on it all day, and it'd sound more real than through a recording played back on a sound system.

The other thing I don't like is how the simple interface is way too simple that it becomes way too cryptic and you need the manual to figure out how to do everything such that it becomes not really user friendly after all.

Again, I'm really just nit picking here. It serves its main purpose very well, which is ultimately the incredible sound and feel. But it would also be so complete if the console has been designed to be more user friendly.

By the way, another question I have is whether there's any maintenance needed for the keyboard at all. I asked the salesman and he said no, unless something is broken. The manual also doesn't mention anything about this. But I saw some post on this board that alludes to the need to do something with the keyboard once in a while (forgot the term). Thanks!

If it's like other Yamahas then there will be one or two wheels (for want of a better word) to wind out under the pedals to ensure they are tight against the floor...there should be no movement at all in my opinion.

I don't think any maintenance will be needed, at least not for a few years...there is nothing to "voice" or "regulate" so the only problem might be some mechanical wear in the action...but this would take many years of high use to be a problem...Yamahas are very well made and your piano has almost a full wooden grand action in it.

Snazzy is your man for the definitive advice about pedal movement....

Cheers,

Steve

Thanks for your response, Steve. I checked and didn't see any wheels that wind out under the pedals on this Yamaha, unfortunately. But I'm glad to hear the keyboard should be maintenance free except for wear & tear repair as needed.

I am a huge fan of the new N3, but concur with all of your complaints/suggestions. Our pedal lyre does in fact move ever so slightly. Most acoustic grand lyres move a little. If you play a lot (5+ hours a day) you may need a little action regulation after a few years. If you play 5- hours a week you will likely never need adjustments.

I've actually heard it may need to be regulated down the road, but I don't see why you couldn't upgrade to the newer model at that point.

I'm glad to hear that the very slight movement of the N3 pedal lyre is normal. Regarding the action regulation, how do I know when it's needed? When you start noticing that the key action doesn't behave normally or something? Between myself and my daughter and son, we probably play an average of 2-3 hours a day.

This is the first grand I've ever owned so I don't know much about the maintenance of one. All your comments are much appreciated!

When the lyre moves on an acoustic piano, we adjust the lyre braces by shimming or moving them.

Thanks for the comment about adjusting the lyre braces, Bob. That makes sense.

I have a couple more questions:

1) Given that the N3 is a digital piano, is there a need to control the room humidity as much as with an acoustic grand? I mean there are no strings and the housing is just for look, right? The only thing I don't know is the keyboard action.

2) I posted this in another Avant-Grand thread already but also want to re-post it here just for a bump. I wonder if someone can help explain in more layman terms the following feature called the Soundboard Resonator as described on the Avant-Grand.com website as follows:

"In addition to the four-channel multi-speakers, the AvantGrand also features a flat-panel "Soundboard Resonator" where the music stand would be when laid flat, allowing a more subtle reproduction of the buildup of sound felt by pianists when playing a grand piano. An oscillator called a "transducer" transmits vibration to the flat-panel soundboard, giving a realistic sound response that is especially evident in the higher range. (Only as for N3.)"

Does exactly does this mean? Do you only get this effect when laying the music stand flat, otherwise you don't? Is it trying to mimic how the sound from an acoustic differs with the music stand down as opposed to when it's up? Thanks.

Volusiano,

Yamaha's N3 "soundboard resonator" is comprised of two transducers (somewhat disturbingly called "exciters" in the service manual) that cause the near end--under the music desk--of the sound board to vibrate. It doesn't matter if the desk is up or down, the transducers don't know the position of the desk.

As for room humidity, except in extreme conditions (where it may effect the action) this should be a non-issue for the AGs.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Alden

Thanks, Alden. Can you tell me how the "soundboard resonator" differs from the TRS (Tactile Response System)? I thought this is where they're talking about the 2 transducer on the soundboard (see an excertp from their website below) to transmit the vibration feel to the player. So that's why I thought that the Soundboard resonator causes an effect on the sound and the TRS causes an effect on the feel.

"From the Avant-Grand website:

TRS (Tactile Response System):

The sound of an acoustic piano resonates throughout its entire body. The bass range in particular is an essential part of the reverberation that is continually transmitted to a player's body. In the AvantGrand, this is replicated by our newly-developed Tactile Response System (TRS) that focuses on reproducing reverberation. This system features two transducers in the soundboard, the area underneath the keyboard, resonating natural reverberation throughout the entire instrument. The player's hands on the keyboard transmit the natural sound felt from the feet as they depress the pedals; the epitome of real piano playing. This system can be turned on and off, and the vibration set to one of three levels."

Volusiano,

TRS has its own transducers mounted to the bottom face of the keybed* below the lower octaves. These operate at the lower frequencies that you feel through the keys.

*the Keybed is the part of the instrument that the keyboard and action assembly sits on - essentially a shelf. You may occasionally see posts referring to the action as the keybed - they are actually separate parts.

Cheers,
Alden

I would like to add an AvantGrand N3 question.

Is there any speaker tuning on the N3, like there is an iAFC tuning on the CVP-509? Do I need to tune the N3 speaker system to the room in any way?

Huygens, I'm not aware of any speaker tuning per se in the N3 manual ala iAFC style like in the CVP, although the N3 does have a reverb function built-in.

If I understand it correctly, the iAFC tuning is to simulate the reverb effect of a grand piano sound from the Clavinova upright design specific to that actual room environment by using an active mic to capture the ambient feedback of the stereo sound source and dynamically mix this back out through a rear speaker. But in the case of the N3, I think with the 4 speaker-set configuration already laid out horizontally with the proper spacing to emulate where the sound sources of an acoustic grand actually come from physically, there's no need to have something like the iAFC to simulate the real effect anymore, because the real effect will be created as it's supposed to be. A good analogy is a surround sound system where you already have 5 speakers physically spread out around you (center, front left/right, rear left/right) to envelope you, as opposed to a compact stereo setup with a surround sound simulation function where the sound is digitally processed to make it seem like it envelopes you like the 5-speaker setup does. Except in the case of the Clavinova, the iAFC is a dynamic effect with an active mic to capture the ambience which may be different from room to room.

I think the N2 as an upright design style may benefit from the iAFC technology. But I don't think they put it on the N2 either, probably because they don't want to make the N2 sound like a grand, but rather have the N2 sound like an upright the way it's supposed to be.

I'm not sure this is correct, because in that Keyboard Mag video, they make a feature of how much like a big beefy grand the N2 sounds like. They Yamaha bloke said the first time he played it, he got a huge shock, to hear such a big sound coming from an "upright".

Greg.

Sullivang, you're probably right on the part that Yamaha intends for the N2 to sound like a grand piano. In fact, I checked the avant-grand.com website and they indeed say they intend for the N2 to sound like a grand, too. So I stand corrected.

However, I'm pretty sure that neither the N3 nor the N2 use the iAFC technology because the manual I have is for both N3 & N2 combined, and nothing is mentioned about the iAFC.

Although the N2 does not have as many speakers and transducers as the N3 does, it still has a lot: 3 sets of mid-range and tweeter speakers (N3 has 4), 2 subwoofers (N3 has 4), 2 transducers (N3 has 4), and an extra high mid and tweeter. So with this many speakers , they probably don't need the iAFC to simulate the grand sound.

Just a quick update here about my original question on the N3 pedal lyre being a little wobbly when the pedals are depressed. Thanks to Bob's comment about adjusting the lyre braces, I finally looked carefully at the screw-on plates for the lyre braces with a flash light and found that the opening of these screw-on plates are elongated, obviously to provide room for adjustment. I just incorrectly assumed before that it was just a circular hole when I looked without a flash light. Anyway, all I had to do was loosen the screws and slide the plates of the lyre braces all the way forward (toward the keyboard end), and voila, no more wiggling pedal lyre!