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#1339065 - 01/02/10 08:36 AM YouTube Comments
cardguy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 977
I'm guessing this has been talked about before. Why oh why can't I stop reading these things, because they are truly depressing.

"I really love this song. LOL"

(In response to a surpassingly difficult Chopin etude) "I played this song 10 years ago. My teacher liked the way I played it. LOL."

"Can anyone tell me where I can get the sheets to this song? LOL"

I'm just making these up as I go along, but catches the flavor I think.

Accuse me of elitism if you want, or perhaps grumpy old mannism, but I can't shake the depressing sense that our culture is in decline. I suppose one could argue that these are just kids, and the fact that they're listening to classical music is a good sign, but I'm a glass half empty kind of guy. If these re the best and the brightest, what about the rest of them?

Of course, it's also true that I was a drooling idiot myself until I hit 40 or so :-)

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#1339095 - 01/02/10 10:00 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: cardguy]
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
I think our culture is in decline, but I try to accept it with equanimity.

YouTube comments certainly seem like a showcase for insolent ignorance, and the lack of critical thinking and communication skills that's displayed (whether unwittingly or deliberately) is quite likely one gauge of our existential entropy.

I try to insulate myself from such disturbing crassness; like any train wreck, it's probably a good idea not to look! It really helps to have some personal safe space—a little corner of the world that isn't falling apart—even if it's in your mind. Hey, I reckon that's what "peace of mind" is. smile

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#1339102 - 01/02/10 10:15 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: sotto voce]
mr_roberts_z Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Canada
I hate seeing every one of the examples Cardguy mentioned, but I absolutely loathe one other type: on a YT video specifically titled (just for example) "Hofmann: Chopin Military Polonaise (rec 1923), someone might comment "you play this song really well!".

This raises my blood pressure whenever I see it. How the commenter could possibly think the "song" is being played by the video uploader is beyond me.

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#1339113 - 01/02/10 10:35 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: cardguy]
jcromp78 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 13
Loc: New York
While I enjoy rock and metal music I can't truly appreciate it the way I do classical music. For me classical music engages the mind and soul the way rock never could. I don't know if this generation is interested in that or not. I think they like the quick "high" that certain types of so-called music (like rap)give them. For some though I think they just have been raised on popular music right from birth and have been indoctrinated with the idea that classical music is just for older, rich people. I am thankful that I received a Tchaikovsky cassette when I was eigth or nine and was introduced to a whole new world of sound unlike any I had heard before. I probably said myself "this is a great song".

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#1339118 - 01/02/10 10:40 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: jcromp78]
xtraheat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/07
Posts: 625
Loc: WV
Our culture is in decline because of this annoying elitism, not because someone is friendly and enthusiastic about something but doesn't know much about it...
_________________________
Currently working on
Prokofiev Piano Concerto 3
Beethoven Sonata Op.109
Chopin Op.10 No.1
Bach WTC II no. 15

--Sam--

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#1339131 - 01/02/10 10:56 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: xtraheat]
cardguy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 977
Originally Posted By: xtraheat
Our culture is in decline because of this annoying elitism, not because someone is friendly and enthusiastic about something but doesn't know much about it...


"Friendly" and "enthusiastic" are the very last adjectives I'd use to characterize the majority of the responses I see, although I'll grant you that I am, as I've already stipulated, a pessimist when it comes to our culture at large.

I was having dinner with some friends recently and their 25 year old, college educated daughter was along. She was attractive, warm, personable, and also in my view shockingly ignorant for someone with a degree. She'd never heard of sunspots for just one example.

Now fine, again, perhaps I'm elitist, or maybe when I was 25 I didn't now what sunspots were...although Ii suspect I did... but if that's what we can expect from the well educated among today's youth, I think we're in trouble.









Edited by cardguy (01/02/10 11:02 AM)

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#1339133 - 01/02/10 11:00 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: cardguy]
xtraheat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/07
Posts: 625
Loc: WV
Your first example was: "I really love this song. LOL" That is pretty friendly and enthusiastic... Another one posted that made the posters "blood boil" was: "you play this song really well!" That is yet another friendly and enthusiastic comment by someone trying to give a nice comment, yet are somewhat confused
_________________________
Currently working on
Prokofiev Piano Concerto 3
Beethoven Sonata Op.109
Chopin Op.10 No.1
Bach WTC II no. 15

--Sam--

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#1339134 - 01/02/10 11:01 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: xtraheat]
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
I think allegations of elitism are annoying.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#1339135 - 01/02/10 11:02 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: xtraheat]
babama Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 800
Loc: Netherlands
It's not those kind of posts that bother me.

I have to say that, in general, there are mostly nice and even interesting comments at piano videos on youtube.

But sometimes, when I see completely idiotic posts at a rather obscure classical piano video, it makes me wonder how on earth those people ended up watching that video in the first place... or maybe I'm just disappointed that such rude and ignorant individuals are listening to classical music as well.

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#1339136 - 01/02/10 11:04 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: xtraheat]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19221
Loc: New York City
I don't mind most of the Youtube comments, although I don't read them much. If someone is enthusiastic about a recording, that's good enough for me even if the expression of the enthusiasm seems to indicate the poster doesn't have much knowledge. IMO it's great just to have people who might not normally listen to classical music that often listening on Youtube.

Since the comments aren't moderated, one would naturally expect that some would be extremely vulgar or use profanity.

There are plenty of well educated people who know little about pianos or classical music. I once told an intelligent adult I was having serious problems with my piano(before I got my BB) and they replied "Oh, it needs a tuning?" Some very smart people who don't play any instrument have told me they thought that as long as one could read music(the notes), the pieces I play don't require any practice.


Edited by pianoloverus (01/02/10 01:48 PM)

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#1339137 - 01/02/10 11:06 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: babama]
misspianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 35
Loc: The Netherlands
I actually like to read those comments, they make me laugh sometimes and laughing is good right?

But if you take no pleasure in reading those comments, you could download a little firefox extention called "The YouTube Comment Snob". It alows you to filter out undesirable comments.

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#1339144 - 01/02/10 11:12 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: sotto voce]
xtraheat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/07
Posts: 625
Loc: WV
Originally Posted By: sotto voce
I think allegations of elitism are annoying.

Steven



Do you ever do anything but complain about everything?
_________________________
Currently working on
Prokofiev Piano Concerto 3
Beethoven Sonata Op.109
Chopin Op.10 No.1
Bach WTC II no. 15

--Sam--

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#1339148 - 01/02/10 11:13 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: xtraheat]
mr_roberts_z Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: xtraheat
Another one posted that made the posters "blood boil" was: "you play this song really well!" That is yet another friendly and enthusiastic comment by someone trying to give a nice comment, yet are somewhat confused


No no, that wasn't what I meant. I could've used a different example: "you play that too fast". The point is that the person is too oblivious to notice that it was recorded in (for example) 1923, despite the fact that it's clearly marked, and tries to offer critique to a 95 year old recording. Whether or not the person has good intentions is a different matter; I'm just talking about ignorance (I wouldn't say confusion) towards the recording.

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#1339150 - 01/02/10 11:19 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: cardguy]
Cheeto717 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 696
Loc: Pennsylvania
I think you guys would enjoy this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd5bl4e--KU
_________________________
Working On:
Bach: Partita No. 6
Beethoven: Op. 26
Brahms: Op. 120
Chopin: Op. 10

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#1339156 - 01/02/10 11:32 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Cheeto717]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3707
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: xtraheat
Originally Posted By: sotto voce
I think allegations of elitism are annoying.

Steven



Do you ever do anything but complain about everything?


Speaking of decline, let's not have this thread degenerate!

I don't think youtube comments are evidence of cultural decline: I think the internet simply gives us a light to shine across the country, so we can see, in a way we previously couldn't, evidence of ignorance.

But I strongly agree with Steven that accusations of elitism, both here and in the national discussion, are annoying. You try to be informed, you learn as much as you can, you try to be precise and careful how you say things, and you're branded an elitist. Are elite military units embarrassed by their competence?

On a lighter note though, here is a great video about classical music and youtube comments! (It's similar to the one posted above, but I like it much more.) Some swearing in the video. Enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MODNcU4Xf4k

-Jason

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#1339169 - 01/02/10 12:02 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: beet31425]
moscheles001 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/08
Posts: 753
Loc: Northeast Pennsylvania
I agree. I think most charges of "elitism" are leveled by people who are threatened by those who have wider interests and/or knowledge.

Ignorance is as fond of company as is misery.

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#1339175 - 01/02/10 12:13 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: moscheles001]
xtraheat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/07
Posts: 625
Loc: WV
No, they are leveled by people who are sick and tired of people thinking that they are superior to others. If you all haven't noticed, pianists like Horowitz, Argerich, Cziffra, etc. never made claims like this. It is the same throughout almost all of the arts and other activities... The best and most talented people do not brag and make arrogant statements, and they accept people that are more ignorant of their art. The people that brag and are elitist are usually the less talented people who need to reassure themselves about their ability and knowledge.
_________________________
Currently working on
Prokofiev Piano Concerto 3
Beethoven Sonata Op.109
Chopin Op.10 No.1
Bach WTC II no. 15

--Sam--

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#1339178 - 01/02/10 12:19 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: cardguy]
CebuKid Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1174
Originally Posted By: cardguy
I'm guessing this has been talked about before. Why oh why can't I stop reading these things, because they are truly depressing.

"I really love this song. LOL"

(In response to a surpassingly difficult Chopin etude) "I played this song 10 years ago. My teacher liked the way I played it. LOL."

"Can anyone tell me where I can get the sheets to this song? LOL"

I'm just making these up as I go along, but catches the flavor I think.

Accuse me of elitism if you want, or perhaps grumpy old mannism, but I can't shake the depressing sense that our culture is in decline. I suppose one could argue that these are just kids, and the fact that they're listening to classical music is a good sign, but I'm a glass half empty kind of guy. If these re the best and the brightest, what about the rest of them?

Of course, it's also true that I was a drooling idiot myself until I hit 40 or so :-)









"Dumb is the new cool." That pretty much sums up today's culture. As an avid YouTuber, I know what you mean by the stupid comments, but you're right. At least "they" are listening to classical music.

On the positive side, I think most of these kids will grow out of it, and kudos to the ones who play the piano in the first place.

I'm a firm believer that musical education raises IQ points.
_________________________
YouTube Channel
Scott Joplin Repertoire


Music washes away from the soul
the dust of everyday life.
- Berthold Auerbach



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#1339204 - 01/02/10 01:13 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: xtraheat]
moscheles001 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/08
Posts: 753
Loc: Northeast Pennsylvania
But most of the accusations of elitism made in this country these days seem to be toward people who don't consider themselves superior, but who have made the mistake of being educated and thoughtful. I recall overhearing someone at my job saying that the show "Jeopardy" was rigged, because nobody can be that smart.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any braggart pianists, though.

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#1339207 - 01/02/10 01:21 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: moscheles001]
LiszThalberg Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3288
I like my generation smile

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#1339208 - 01/02/10 01:21 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: xtraheat]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19641
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: xtraheat
Your first example was: "I really love this song. LOL" That is pretty friendly and enthusiastic... Another one posted that made the posters "blood boil" was: "you play this song really well!" That is yet another friendly and enthusiastic comment by someone trying to give a nice comment, yet are somewhat confused.

I usually don't mind a little elitism smile but on this thing, I see it how you said. I'm glad that whomever is interested enough even just to come on and take a look at classical pieces, and if they actually like what them, that's great.

Plus...... I don't even think it's something about "today"; it's always been like that. The only difference now is that because of things like YouTube, it's more obvious.

And if you really wanna know ha there was a time that I sometimes said "song" for classical pieces, even with all my piano lessons and playing Mozart sonatas and Chopin Polonaises. I remember that when I was 16 and was preparing a program for a local competition, when I talked with my teacher about what repertoire was required -- talking about things like a Chopin Nocturne and Polonaise (the F# minor) ha and a Brahms Rhapsody -- I happened to use the word "Songs."

She was horrified. smile

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#1339215 - 01/02/10 01:26 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Mark_C]
Fugue14 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/13/09
Posts: 200
I really hate idiotic comments on contemporary music (perhaps Xenakis): "My handicapped kid could play that." Grrr

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#1339221 - 01/02/10 01:29 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: pianoloverus]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19641
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I don't mind most of the Youtube comments, although I don't read them much. If someone is enthusiastic about a recording, that's good enough for me even if the expression of the enthusiasm seems to indicate the poster doesn't have much knowledge. IMO it's great just to have people who might not normally listen to classical music that often listening on Youtube.....

thumb thumb thumb

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#1339225 - 01/02/10 01:38 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Mark_C]
moscheles001 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/08
Posts: 753
Loc: Northeast Pennsylvania
I try not to read the comments on Youtube, because there always seems to be someone trying (usually with great success) to start a fight. The comments can become really vicious, too.

I'm happy just to find videos of good music played well. That there are people who don't know very much about music who listen to the music and enjoy it seems a good thing to me. And at least they make an effort to show their appreciation.

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#1339229 - 01/02/10 01:40 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: moscheles001]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19641
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: moscheles001
I try not to read the comments on Youtube, because there always seems to be someone trying (usually with great success) to start a fight.....

I think maybe with just the tiniest bit of effort you'll be able to just LAUGH at that stuff. I was.

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#1339232 - 01/02/10 01:42 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: moscheles001]
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4373
Loc: Jersey Shore
Damn hippies!!

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#1339234 - 01/02/10 01:44 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: moscheles001]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19641
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: moscheles001
.....Off the top of my head, I can't think of any braggart pianists, though.

I have to go back a century for one: Vladimir De Pachmann. And I think even his braggart stuff was probably just part of the act.

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#1339238 - 01/02/10 01:47 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Mark_C]
moscheles001 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/08
Posts: 753
Loc: Northeast Pennsylvania
The Chopinzee!!

Oh, wait! I just thought of one: Richard Kastle!!

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#1339241 - 01/02/10 01:53 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: moscheles001]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19641
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: moscheles001
The Chopinzee!!

Cool! (Pachmann's nick.)

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#1339245 - 01/02/10 01:58 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Mark_C]
moscheles001 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/08
Posts: 753
Loc: Northeast Pennsylvania
I haven't read Schoenberg's book 200 times for nothing.

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#1339248 - 01/02/10 02:02 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: moscheles001]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19641
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: moscheles001
I haven't read Schoenberg's book 200 times for nothing.

That's where I learned about Pachmann.
BTW, not to be elitist or anything ha but I have a little 'review' of the book on Amazon.

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#1339255 - 01/02/10 02:09 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: cardguy]
Brent B Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 348
Loc: Western/Central PA
Originally Posted By: cardguy
[quote=xtraheat]
I was having dinner with some friends recently and their 25 year old, college educated daughter was along. She was attractive, warm, personable, and also in my view shockingly ignorant for someone with a degree. She'd never heard of sunspots for just one example.


I hope that's not the best example of her "ignorance."

Young people live in a completely different world today than their parents and grandparents. No longer is knowing random information (e.g. sunspots) of utmost importance. An individual's success in the future will no longer be determined by how many classical composers she can name or by her ability to quote classical literature. Success will be determined by her ability to utilize technological resources and multitask--skills that the older generations among us severely lack (despite their ability to describe a fine wine).

I see this today even in my profession (medicine). No longer are the best doctors the ones who can recite Harrison's textbook of medicine. Rather, the best doctors are those who can effectively integrate their knowledge with the vast array of technological resources available to them to come up with the best answers/solutions for their patients.

Now, I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't attempt to help younger generations appreciate the finer things in life, we just have to understand and accept that their approach to life is completely different than ours (I'm only 30 years old and I don't even pretend to understand them).

Just my $.02.

Happy New Year everyone!
_________________________
Estonia 190

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#1339257 - 01/02/10 02:18 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Brent B]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
If you think comments on classical piano are "bad" you should try reading some of the comments on political issues at YouTube. Truly nasty. But I like it because it shows you how people "really think" uncensored. A rare glimpse into honest thoughts ... which is just as rare. Even if they are crass.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1339284 - 01/02/10 03:07 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: eweiss]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13759
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I agree that YouTube comments are pretty much the bottom of the barrel where music criticism is concerned, but I also agree with those who see the large amount of classical music content and its viewers as a good thing.


Edited by Kreisler (01/02/10 03:13 PM)
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1339294 - 01/02/10 03:32 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: pianoloverus]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4526
Loc: in the past
Oh yeah.. And people are like that in real life too, if not worse. Just don't assume everybody is in this category, because there are always exceptions. I sometimes get classified as one of them before I even speak, mostly because I'm 20 and have blonde hair. @*&$%#&*$%^

What I really wonder about is, who is going to go to concerts in 30-40 years when all the old folks are gone? 90% of the audiences are composed of them.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1339316 - 01/02/10 04:12 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Pogorelich.]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19221
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: AngelinaPogorelich

What I really wonder about is, who is going to go to concerts in 30-40 years when all the old folks are gone? 90% of the audiences are composed of them.


For many years it has seemed like most of the concert audience was older than me(and I just qualified for half price subway fares in NYC! ). Lately, I seem to see more young people in the audience, many of them Asian.

It does trouble me that many of the free concerts and master classes in NYC at Mannes are poorly attended.


Edited by pianoloverus (01/02/10 04:13 PM)

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#1339317 - 01/02/10 04:13 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Pogorelich.]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17825
Loc: Victoria, BC
While I don't read You tube comments, I am aware that they are there. I am also aware that a large number of those comments are posted by those who frequently spend a lot of their lives on You tube and on other similar social-electronic websites. Those tend to be the younger, as-yet, uninformed; therefore the preponderance of the comments come from those who are not well-informed.

A more serious phenomenon that such comments reveal, however, is a breakdown in basic language skills, a breakdown that shows an increasing tendency for "net-speak" or "chat-speak" to become the communications norm. Fine-tuning of language and, hence, precision of thought and expression are giving way to ubiquitous expressions that express little more than basic "grunt" reactions because that's the limit of the eloquence of many.

Yes, language is organic and it needs to evolve with time. Sadly, some of the current changes are being effected at the expense of diction and precision. A lack of the ability to express oneself accurately can only lead to misconceptions or, eventually, to a total lack of meaningful communication.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1339325 - 01/02/10 04:23 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: BruceD]
gooddog Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4771
Loc: Seattle area, WA
Oh, like, Bruce, ur totally, like, right about that stuff u talked about, u know?
_________________________
Best regards,

Deborah

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#1339334 - 01/02/10 04:27 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: gooddog]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
I don't mind Youtube comments as long as they don't belittle the pianist in the video. I mean, if he says "song" instead of "piece" then it's okay to say "Oh, in classical music, 'song' refers to music that is sung with the voice and for non vocal works you say 'piece' or whatever specific kind of piece (etude, sonata, etc.) it is."

But if someone says on a Gilels video, "He plays that song the best!" I'll just reply with "He DOES play that piece very well, doesn't he? ;)" or something like that.

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#1339335 - 01/02/10 04:29 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: gooddog]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17825
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: gooddog
Oh, like, Bruce, ur totally, like, right about that stuff u talked about, u know?


Hmm... dunno 'bout that!

C U L8r, bb smile
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#1339354 - 01/02/10 05:00 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: BruceD]
Horowitzian Offline
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Posts: 8453
grin
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#1339355 - 01/02/10 05:00 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: BruceD]
Da-Risin-Smoke Offline
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Registered: 12/19/09
Posts: 19
Loc: Eastern Washington (state)
Internets: Serious business.

But really, it's the internet; YouTube is filled with 14 year old kids mostly that comment on these videos.

It's really easy to make a YouTube account and post comments.
A lot of them just like to troll on people's videos to make people upset and flood the comment pages with internet fights.

It's the internet though people; on YouTube, you can easily become famous and easily fade into darkness even more quicker. It's not meant for seriousness. It's about as constructive and reliable as Wikipedia. Enjoy the good comments even the "SOunds good, lolz." and ignore the "Yeah, my friend can better than you, lol." comments.
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#1339361 - 01/02/10 05:11 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Brent B]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19641
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Brent B
.....Young people live in a completely different world today than their parents and grandparents. No longer is knowing random information (e.g. sunspots) of utmost importance.....

.....and I would say that as per the rest of your post, it never really was, and to the extent that it sort of was, it shouldn't have been.

Quote:
An individual's success in the future will no longer be determined by how many classical composers she can name or by her ability to quote classical literature. Success will be determined by her ability to utilize technological resources and multitask--skills that the older generations among us severely lack (despite their ability to describe a fine wine)....

Although I do happen to like when people also know about stuff like sunspots. ha

Quote:
......I see this today even in my profession (medicine). No longer are the best doctors the ones who can recite Harrison's textbook of medicine. Rather, the best doctors are those who can effectively integrate their knowledge with the vast array of technological resources available to them to come up with the best answers/solutions for their patients.....

I'm a colleague, and I'd say that the best doctors never were the ones who could recite Harrison's etc. Those were the ones who were at the top of their classes, and probably most of them really were very good, but the rote factual stuff was overrated. BTW.....back in the day I was on committees and task forces that worked toward revising the MCAT and National Board exams to reflect what we might call more enlightened thinking, and I think we had a certain amount of success. From what I can tell, the current MCAT and National Board exams do indeed reflect more of what we would call relevance.

I remember that when I took the MCAT, much of the stuff on the "General Information" section was beyond esoteric, and meant little. I didn't even do well on the classical music questions, because almost all of them were about OPERA! And although I was a huge sports nut, I missed at least one of the sports questions because I didn't know enough about POLO. ha

P.S. I still have my copiously-annotated copy of Harrison's.

Quote:
Just my $.02.

Mine too. smile

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#1339370 - 01/02/10 05:23 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mark_C Online   content
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Originally Posted By: AngelinaPogorelich
......What I really wonder about is, who is going to go to concerts in 30-40 years when all the old folks are gone? 90% of the audiences are composed of them.

I worry about that.
And......this is a little off the subject, but every now and then when I see something like the following, I feel encouraged.
It's a couple of spiffy college kids just jamming and doing a near-world-class duo performance of a super-hard Alkan etude. You can feel the fun and camaraderie. Could it be that with people like that, classical music and classical musicians might eventually be seen as COOL?



P.S. There's also a youtube video of one of them playing the etude by himself.

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#1339395 - 01/02/10 06:04 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: xtraheat]
RonaldSteinway Offline
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Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 1472
Originally Posted By: xtraheat
No, they are leveled by people who are sick and tired of people thinking that they are superior to others. If you all haven't noticed, pianists like Horowitz, Argerich, Cziffra, etc. never made claims like this. It is the same throughout almost all of the arts and other activities... The best and most talented people do not brag and make arrogant statements, and they accept people that are more ignorant of their art. The people that brag and are elitist are usually the less talented people who need to reassure themselves about their ability and knowledge.


Very well said! Those people also have the urge to show the world that they know something, so they need to post constantly in any newsgroup that they belong. When people misstated something, they must be the first one who corrects. Those who know are quiet! There is a chinese proverb, a half full can sounds noisy, the full one does not make any noise.

Now I do not trust what people post in this newsgroup, I listen to their playing first, then I can believe what he or she said.

Like Mark Cannon, he really knows what he is talking about, his playing talks loudly about his ability. He is not an internet pianist. He did a lot of posting within a few months of joinging this group. But his postings are great to help others.


Edited by RonaldSteinway (01/02/10 06:11 PM)

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#1339405 - 01/02/10 06:20 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: RonaldSteinway]
babama Offline
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Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 800
Loc: Netherlands
In my experience the comment pages on youtube at piano videos are really not that bad... especially when compared to more popular video subjects.
There's still a large part of comments expressing appreciation for the music. Sometimes there are even interesting and informative comments, or imaginative descriptions of the emotion or atmosphere of a certain piece.
Yes, there are also rude posters, flamers and spammers, even at piano videos, but you know.. it's the internet.. you have to deal with it and learn to ignore it.

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#1339411 - 01/02/10 06:30 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: pianoloverus]
Peyton Offline
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Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2522
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I don't mind most of the Youtube comments, although I don't read them much. If someone is enthusiastic about a recording, that's good enough for me even if the expression of the enthusiasm seems to indicate the poster doesn't have much knowledge. IMO it's great just to have people who might not normally listen to classical music that often listening on Youtube.



I agree. The ones I have trouble with are the rude nasty comments made just to be... rude and nasty. Someone has taken the time to post their or someone else's playing and some little bastard who could probably care less about music comes on and rips the person up. It's the fact they can hide behind an alias that gives them this courage.
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#1339417 - 01/02/10 06:42 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Peyton]
Da-Risin-Smoke Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/19/09
Posts: 19
Loc: Eastern Washington (state)
Originally Posted By: Peyton

I agree. The ones I have trouble with are the rude nasty comments made just to be... rude and nasty. Someone has taken the time to post their or someone else's playing and some little bastard who could probably care less about music comes on and rips the person up. It's the fact they can hide behind an alias that gives them this courage.


You have discovered the art of internet "trolling" and "e-thugging" I presume.

Any decently smart person would ignore these neanderthals and listen to the majority of the comments (which are usually positive and constructive). We seem to ignore the 99% of good comments but we are so bothered by the 1% that's bad for some reason.
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#1339419 - 01/02/10 06:44 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Peyton]
LimeFriday Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 303
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Peyton

The ones I have trouble with are the rude nasty comments made just to be... rude and nasty. Someone has taken the time to post their or someone else's playing and some little bastard who could probably care less about music comes on and rips the person up. It's the fact they can hide behind an alias that gives them this courage.


You have to wonder what kind of lives these type of people have. I mean - why do that? Is life that bad you have to sit by a computer and tear apart others just for sport?

I saw one comment the other day which seemed to sum it up. It was 'What's this sh*t doing here? Kids don't like this sh*t. Get it off. Where's Beyonce, Miley Cyrus? That's what we want to see. Not this sh*t'


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#1339441 - 01/02/10 07:14 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: cardguy]
PJG Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 26
I feel compelled to go back to what started this thread:

Originally Posted By: cardguy
Accuse me of elitism if you want, or perhaps grumpy old mannism, but I can't shake the depressing sense that our culture is in decline. I suppose one could argue that these are just kids, and the fact that they're listening to classical music is a good sign, but I'm a glass half empty kind of guy. If these re the best and the brightest, what about the rest of them?




cardguy: I can't come up with a single reason why you'd think these are the best and the brightest.

Because they're listening to classical music on youtube??

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#1339442 - 01/02/10 07:18 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Mark_C]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8816
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: MarkCannon
Originally Posted By: moscheles001
I haven't read Schoenberg's book 200 times for nothing.

That's where I learned about Pachmann.
BTW, not to be elitist or anything ha but I have a little 'review' of the book on Amazon.

I thought I was nuts for reading that incredible book around 50 times, or at least it has seemed that way. I think I can quote large amounts of it for memory. Truly a landmark work belonging in the collection of every member here.

IMO Arthur Loesser's book 'Men, Women & Pianos' is also required reading, though it takes a very different approach than Schonberg. And at times, Loesser has a sense of humour which can all of a sudden creep up at the most unexpected moments. Delicious stuff.
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#1339450 - 01/02/10 07:36 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: argerichfan]
beet31425 Online   content
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Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3707
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: MarkCannon
Originally Posted By: moscheles001
I haven't read Schoenberg's book 200 times for nothing.

That's where I learned about Pachmann.
BTW, not to be elitist or anything ha but I have a little 'review' of the book on Amazon.

I thought I was nuts for reading that incredible book around 50 times, or at least it has seemed that way. I think I can quote large amounts of it for memory. Truly a landmark work belonging in the collection of every member here.


Dude, I thought you guys were talking about Arnold Schoenberg's Theory of Harmony or Fundamentals of Musical Composition. I was thinking... 50 times? 200 times?

A little research later, and I get it: you're talking about Harold Schonberg's Great Pianists. Which I've seen, but don't really know anything about. Thanks for the recommendation!

-Jason

(p.s. Mark: This is off-topic, but since you don't PM I'll put it here: I noticed on Amazon your review of Nabokov's Pale Fire. A masterpiece, you call it. Are you familiar with the hilarious and bizarre allusion of the novel's title?)

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#1339460 - 01/02/10 07:51 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: beet31425]
argerichfan Offline
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Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8816
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: beet31425

Dude, I thought you guys were talking about Arnold Schoenberg's Theory of Harmony or Fundamentals of Musical Composition. I was thinking... 50 times? 200 times?

LOL Jason, you are funny. smile (BTW, I always enjoy your intelligent contributions here.)

Yeah, at uni I studied a fair amount of Schoenberg (Moses and Aaron for starters), but it never really communicated to me as I suppose it should have. As a mathematician I could see where it would appeal to you. I did, however, make a fairly decent analysis of the violin concerto (but could I have the Elgar instead? -which I have extensively analyzed) and once in piano class I was called upon to sightread the opening of the piano concerto- I was picked on without warning! I think I managed okay... my classmates were a bit impressed, but I've always had a modest talent for sight-reading. De rigueur for a church musician. Cheers...
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#1339494 - 01/02/10 08:37 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: beet31425]
currawong Offline
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Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5899
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: beet31425
A little research later, and I get it: you're talking about Harold Schonberg's Great Pianists. Which I've seen, but don't really know anything about. Thanks for the recommendation!
My copy (which I've read many times) was a gift from a singer I was accompanying, more years ago than I care to number. Lovely voice - alas, she died far too young.
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#1339514 - 01/02/10 09:19 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: currawong]
mr_roberts_z Offline
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Registered: 10/09/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Canada
Not to continue an off-topic discussion that ended a while ago, but after reading about Pachmann in The Great Pianists (many times...), I got curious enough to see if he really did gloat during his performances. Sure enough, for those that haven't heard it.


Edited by mr_roberts_z (01/02/10 09:21 PM)

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#1339552 - 01/02/10 10:57 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: mr_roberts_z]
Canonie Offline
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Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 1941
Loc: Australia
Thanks guys for book recommendation. In just a few clicks I have ordered in from my local library, it was checked in!! Also grabbed the Horror-wits biography by same author. Can't wait to get into some great holiday reading, Yay!

That's a sad story currawong - it must be a special book for you.
_________________________

Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.

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#1339554 - 01/02/10 11:00 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: xtraheat]
stores Offline
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Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: xtraheat
Our culture is in decline because of this annoying elitism, not because someone is friendly and enthusiastic about something but doesn't know much about it...


Call it elitism if you must, but, presenting opinion factually, correctly and intelligently, is anything, BUT. It is NOT elitist, to use proper terminology. The "song" used as an example by the OP, is NOT a song at all, and were you to "friendly and enthusiastically" mention to Frederic Chopin, that his "song" (said etude) was a brilliant work, I have no doubt that he would dismiss you as easily as I'm sure he was able to tear through Op. 10 No. 1. With the vast wealth of information available these days to anyone with an IQ, there is, absolutely, no reason for the abundant ignorance that runs so rampant (surprisingly so) around, seemingly, every corner. There is NO better place, that I can think of, to witness blatant ignorance, in action, at it's finest, than the comments sections provided on YouTube. Some of the things I've read there (and I've sworn I don't know how many times that I'll never scroll down that far again) absolutely amaze me. The cultural demise at hand, is, quite simply, the result of impatience, lack of respect, and laziness.
_________________________

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#1339565 - 01/02/10 11:26 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: stores]
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 1233
Loc: Ohio, US
I get irritated when I watch something on youtube and in the comments about a song (non-classical) by my favorite artist there are just tons of comments full of "facts" about them which I know aren't true, and anyone who took the effort to google it would know. sick

I also find it annoying that on youtube so many people think that "f---y--" is a valid arguement and that it actually proves a point. smokin
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#1339567 - 01/02/10 11:39 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Little_Blue_Engine]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
I always think this video is funny.

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#1339575 - 01/03/10 12:07 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Phlebas]
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 1941
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Phlebas
I always think this video is funny.

Just watched! laugh thanks phlebas.

Altho i played this moonlight song when i was like 13 for my exam and I put more emotion in it but yeh ur pretty good =) "not as good as the original" -?%#*&#@!
_________________________

Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.

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#1339577 - 01/03/10 12:14 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Phlebas]
Philip Lu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/25/09
Posts: 294
Loc: Hacienda Heights, CA
Sorry Phlebas, posted earlier already.

Well, 15 year olds, near 16.

The thing is, when your an expert or at least experienced pianist, you can't expect everyone else to be. Personally, you will know a lot more about what's going on than the general audience, especially since some of them take to flaming and trolling (which I despise unless the trolling is really necessary). I'm sure most of us make at least one mistake that an expert in that field might scoff at. So, just bear the songs and if anyone refers to a piece as songs, then correct them. And if you can't take it anymore, listen to a few songs, and hope no one will confuse them for pieces!
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#1339584 - 01/03/10 12:40 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: argerichfan]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19641
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
[re Schonberg's "The Great Pianists] I thought I was nuts for reading that incredible book around 50 times, or at least it has seemed that way. I think I can quote large amounts of it for memory. Truly a landmark work belonging in the collection of every member here.

I'm with you 1000%. I understand that some people in the business resent him and his books -- they say he didn't care enough about accuracy and he was a bit too full of himself. But I would guess it was more because of jealousy. I love that book, and when I look back through old reviews in the NY Times (which you can do on their website), I love seeing reviews of his. I would even agree that he was a little too full of himself smile but that's how it often is with stars.

Quote:
IMO Arthur Loesser's book 'Men, Women & Pianos' is also required reading, though it takes a very different approach than Schonberg. And at times, Loesser has a sense of humour which can all of a sudden creep up at the most unexpected moments. Delicious stuff.

The book has been sitting on my bookshelf for years -- I guess I viewed it as required buying but not necessarily required reading. ha
You're motivating me to take a look.

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#1339585 - 01/03/10 12:46 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: beet31425]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19641
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: beet31425
.....Dude, I thought you guys were talking about Arnold Schoenberg's Theory of Harmony or Fundamentals of Musical Composition.....

LOL!!! Actually it was mentioned earlier that we meant Harold, but pretty quickly we dropped the first name. ha

P.S. (OT) Thanks for looking further into the 'reviews'.....and no, I don't know about the allusion of the title "Pale Fire"!
My wife is sitting right here......I bet she'll know.
Let's see.......

["Hey dear.....please take a look at this......"]

Nope, she dunno either. smile

I'll check it out......(and so will she -- the race is on!!!)

[edit: She got it for us. Thanks!!!]


Edited by MarkCannon (01/03/10 01:08 AM)

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#1339586 - 01/03/10 12:47 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Philip Lu]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Philip Lu
Sorry Phlebas, posted earlier already.



Yep. I know I posted it before, and I'm sure I wasn't the only one. Funny anyway.

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#1339587 - 01/03/10 12:48 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: argerichfan]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19641
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
.....at uni I studied a fair amount of Schoenberg......once in piano class I was called upon to sightread the opening of the piano concerto.....

You puttin' us on?? ha

(Very impressive!)

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#1339588 - 01/03/10 12:50 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: mr_roberts_z]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19641
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: mr_roberts_z
Not to continue an off-topic discussion that ended a while ago, but after reading about Pachmann in The Great Pianists (many times...), I got curious enough to see if he really did gloat during his performances. Sure enough, for those that haven't heard it.

GREAT GET!!!
I didn't know we could find stuff like that on youtube.

I knew about his bragging and gloating mainly from reading, but I also happened to hear a recording where he referred to himself as "The Peerless." ha

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#1339590 - 01/03/10 12:54 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Canonie]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19641
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Canonie
Thanks guys for book recommendation......

You see, sometimes "OT" is useful. ha

BTW.....I've been looking for a place to reply to you about the "Koufax" thing that you mildly complained about. I couldn't easily find a place because both relevant threads were "closed"!
But anyway.....what I wanted to say was, first of all, sorry if I did bad, and I hope people will let me or anyone else know when we're straying in a bad way. But mainly, that thread was one of the ridiculous BS things by the nuisance guy who was posting all those stupid recordings, and by then I didn't think people were taking his threads seriously. The baseball stuff was a momentary digression about a member's avatar, and I didn't think it would be unwelcome. Sorry if it was!

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#1339596 - 01/03/10 01:07 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Phlebas]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19641
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Phlebas
I always think this video is funny.

WOW! Thanks for posting it.
We watched the whole thing. I think it's my new favorite version of the Moonlight Sonata. smile

Maybe the funniest part: At the end, where it says "Those were actual comments."
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1339597 - 01/03/10 01:10 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Mark_C]
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 1941
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: MarkCannon
Originally Posted By: Canonie
Thanks guys for book recommendation......

You see, sometimes "OT" is useful. ha

BTW.....I've been looking for a place to reply to you about the "Koufax" thing that you mildly complained about. I couldn't easily find a place because both relevant threads were "closed"!
But anyway.....what I wanted to say was, first of all, sorry if I did bad, and I hope people will let me or anyone else know when we're straying in a bad way. But mainly, that thread was one of the ridiculous BS things by the nuisance guy who was posting all those stupid recordings, and by then I didn't think people were taking his threads seriously. The baseball stuff was a momentary digression about a member's avatar, and I didn't think it would be unwelcome. Sorry if it was!

[personal message] i'm reading thinking "koufax, who is koufax, is this post for me...?... Ah now I remember. From (distant) memory I think I was complaining not about the digression (digressions can be anything from wonderful to fun to abit rude), but about something else, while trying to be gentle enough to give the impression that it didn't matter too much. More of a nudge, but i've forgotten what about. you really should enable PM so that we don't have to have these embarrassing conversations out loud like this. Ah...It's possible that i was complaining that you were trying very hard to get others to follow a forum rule, while happily breaking another.. You shouldn't go back there, this is a nice thread and I am enjoying the varied discussion. PM me if you want to say anything else about it, but I hope we just go back to the thread. [/personal message]

Yes I'm very glad to have the Schonberg book on order. The other Schoenberg text was recommended reading at music school, but unfortunately I didn't look at it frown
_________________________

Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.

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#1339612 - 01/03/10 01:53 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Canonie]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Well said! smile
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#1339647 - 01/03/10 06:23 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: xtraheat]
wr Offline
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Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7753
Originally Posted By: xtraheat
No, they are leveled by people who are sick and tired of people thinking that they are superior to others.



If you are unable to differentiate between people who have ego issues that make them think they are superior to others as people, and people who know they have knowledge about a given art, you are in for a very hard time of it. I have no reason to apologize for knowing what I know, nor for having the experience with music I have had, even as an amateur. Some of us actually do have knowledge and experience others may not have. If you confuse that fact that with some sort of ego issues, that's your problem, not everyone else's. With all due respect, if you have some sort of inferiority/authority thing going that makes you twitch whenever anyone demonstrates expertise, that is not their problem, it is yours.

Quote:


If you all haven't noticed, pianists like Horowitz, Argerich, Cziffra, etc. never made claims like this.


Claims like what?

Quote:


It is the same throughout almost all of the arts and other activities... The best and most talented people do not brag and make arrogant statements, and they accept people that are more ignorant of their art. The people that brag and are elitist are usually the less talented people who need to reassure themselves about their ability and knowledge.


You and I have no idea what the best and most talented people do and say in their everyday life and in dealings with others. But as a hint, if you start reading a lot of bios and and music history books, you'll find that a lot of the big talents bragged and were as arrogant as anybody. And that's just the stuff that got reported. Just yesterday I was listening to a piece on BBC Radio 3 about Mozart teaching someone, and how he wrote in the student's workbook "You are an ass. You are an ass."

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#1339679 - 01/03/10 08:06 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: sotto voce]
I'll be Bach Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/11/09
Posts: 122
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: sotto voce
I think allegations of elitism are annoying.

Steven



You don't say... grin

Personally, I think the OP has it backwards, a generation ago, before the internet age. You had a relatively small chance of ever even hearing of let alone seeing Rubenstein playing Chopin's Heroic Polonaise. Now it is a click away and has 129,371 views.

To me it doesn't matter if it doesn't speak to others the way it does to me. But I like to think that some part of it sticks...even if only for a moment or to twitter to a friend that they heard something cool.

This country has managed to survive Elvis' pelvis which was going to make girls have babies spontaneously and it survived the mop cuts of John, Paul, George and even Ringo...and I would suggest that those that thought they would lead to damnation were wrong. That rather than showing our decline they sparked our imagination. I don't think our culture is in decline, just because I think lady gaga sucks and others don't. I just think I am getting older..."and way leads to way, and that makes all the difference."
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#1339685 - 01/03/10 08:31 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: I'll be Bach]
cardguy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 977
Originally Posted By: I'll be Bach
Originally Posted By: sotto voce
I think allegations of elitism are annoying.

Steven



You don't say... grin

Personally, I think the OP has it backwards, a generation ago, before the internet age. You had a relatively small chance of ever even hearing of let alone seeing Rubenstein playing Chopin's Heroic Polonaise. Now it is a click away and has 129,371 views.

To me it doesn't matter if it doesn't speak to others the way it does to me. But I like to think that some part of it sticks...even if only for a moment or to twitter to a friend that they heard something cool.

This country has managed to survive Elvis' pelvis which was going to make girls have babies spontaneously and it survived the mop cuts of John, Paul, George and even Ringo...and I would suggest that those that thought they would lead to damnation were wrong. That rather than showing our decline they sparked our imagination. I don't think our culture is in decline, just because I think lady gaga sucks and others don't. I just think I am getting older..."and way leads to way, and that makes all the difference."



That reference to Frost's poem is useful. What many don't realize is that it's on Frost's part intentionally grandiose, an old man who will be "sighing ages and ages hence" about taking this not very remarkable road over that one. The key words are inflated, self-important, and vain.

Now before you get into a snit, I'm not in any way calling you those things. I think we all see the world through the lens of our own experience and our own DNA. From time immemorial the older generation has complained about the younger. And I suppose in some ways I myself have become that inflated old man. I agree that there's so much more readily available information out there for the kids. One would have to be blind to argue otherwise. But I see a cheapening in our culture nonetheless, a creeping nastiness that deeply troubles me.

I'm probably wrong. Vain old men usually are, historically speaking.

Sigh. :>)

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#1339689 - 01/03/10 08:48 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: cardguy]
I'll be Bach Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/11/09
Posts: 122
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: cardguy
Originally Posted By: I'll be Bach
Originally Posted By: sotto voce
I think allegations of elitism are annoying.

Steven



You don't say... grin

Personally, I think the OP has it backwards, a generation ago, before the internet age. You had a relatively small chance of ever even hearing of let alone seeing Rubenstein playing Chopin's Heroic Polonaise. Now it is a click away and has 129,371 views.

To me it doesn't matter if it doesn't speak to others the way it does to me. But I like to think that some part of it sticks...even if only for a moment or to twitter to a friend that they heard something cool.

This country has managed to survive Elvis' pelvis which was going to make girls have babies spontaneously and it survived the mop cuts of John, Paul, George and even Ringo...and I would suggest that those that thought they would lead to damnation were wrong. That rather than showing our decline they sparked our imagination. I don't think our culture is in decline, just because I think lady gaga sucks and others don't. I just think I am getting older..."and way leads to way, and that makes all the difference."



That reference to Frost's poem is useful. What many don't realize is that it's on Frost's part intentionally grandiose, an old man who will be "sighing ages and ages hence" about taking this not very remarkable road over that one. The key words are inflated, self-important, and vain.

Now before you get into a snit, I'm not in any way calling you those things. I think we all see the world through the lens of our own experience and our own DNA. From time immemorial the older generation has complained about the younger. And I suppose in some ways I myself have become that inflated old man. I agree that there's so much more readily available information out there for the kids. One would have to be blind to argue otherwise. But I see a cheapening in our culture nonetheless, a creeping nastiness that deeply troubles me.

I'm probably wrong. Vain old men usually are, historically speaking.

Sigh. :>)


I too have always preferred the ironic interpretation of the poem...over the literal.

Since Frost explains both are really "worn about the same"...it will only be the subject who will later suggest that he took the road less traveled by.



Edited by I'll be Bach (01/03/10 08:50 AM)
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#1339694 - 01/03/10 08:58 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: cardguy]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1438
Loc: Australia
When someone says, "I really liked your song", it always seems a little odd to me.
But in all honesty, it is only because I was brought up to refer to instrumental music, as a piece, or composition.

At 55 years old, and not trained in any aspect of performance, teaching, or composition, when a 17 year old, or a 60 year old, says they liked my song, I am in no mood to correct them.
Just grateful I can bring pleasure to someone, from something that gives pleasure to me, however basic my level.

Comments like: "it crawls up on my whole body...tears in my eyes...wonderfull...i don't know what to say..."
and,

"What an incredibly moving piece. I'm unfamiliar with the keyboard you are using (I'm new to digital keyboards) but the tonal quality and the ability to use such precise dynamics is amazing.", are the greatest reward.

My experience of YouTube, has been nothing but positive.
_________________________
Rob

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#1340230 - 01/04/10 12:21 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: LiszThalberg]
WhoDwaldi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 244
It's interesting that so many people regard a comments section as an immediate invitation to play critic.


Edited by WhoDwaldi (01/04/10 12:26 AM)

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#1340238 - 01/04/10 12:36 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: WhoDwaldi]
Frozenicicles Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/09
Posts: 1324
Loc: Canada
I like my generation too. grin And I do use net-speak while texting and instant messaging. Wonder if it's shrinking my brain...? I do notice that kids these days don't read as much as I used to. All their leisure time is spent on computers or video games. So those who actually watch youtube videos of great classical performers are a cut above the rest already.

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#1340260 - 01/04/10 01:29 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Frozenicicles]
1RC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 497
Loc: Alberta
Speaking of sunspots, it occurred to me the other day that it makes absolutely no difference in my life whether I think of the sun as a huge ball of gas way out there in the centre of our solar system, or a ball of fire drawn across the sky each day by a chariot.

If I was an astronomer, then I'd have to clean up my act laugh

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#1340269 - 01/04/10 01:48 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: 1RC]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19641
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: 1RC
Speaking of sunspots, it occurred to me the other day that it makes absolutely no difference in my life whether I think of the sun as a huge ball of gas way out there in the centre of our solar system, or a ball of fire drawn across the sky each day by a chariot.

In case you're not just being clever smile .....I wanted to say that actually it does make a difference.

Because if you think the latter, chances are you're the kind of person who thinks a lot of other stupid stuff and makes a lot of stupid and possibly deadly decisions each and every day. ha

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#1340286 - 01/04/10 02:36 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Mark_C]
1RC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 497
Loc: Alberta
Hahah, true it'd take some serious sheltering for someone to grow up these days without knowing the basics of the solar system, which is pretty much all I've got anyways. I couldn't say just what gasses, hydrogen comes to mind, perhaps some piece of trivia the got picked up somewhere along the way. Whatever I DO know about the sun is pretty superficial knowledge anyways, and who can say what ideas we hold may turn out not to be entirely accurate anyways? There are people trying to figure out just what time is and how it works. I look at my clock and know when to arrive at work, yet don't have to first clue as to how this clock works nor how we came to divide the day up into two cycles of 12 hours.

Anyways, hypothetically if I were to have somehow grown up with some sort of mythical ideas about the sun I really doubt it would make any difference in how I live my life, I'd just be glad it's still shows up in the morning. There are so many things that we only have the most basic knowledge of, how many people know how their computers or cars work? Might as well call it magic.

Of course it's important and enriching to explore our curiousities! Every great discovery must have began as a curiousity. I guess this is just my longwinded way of saying we can't know everything, and so it's not so unusual to bump into someone who don't know what may seem to be a very basic fact to us (piece not song!), but chances are there's a field where we're just as ignorant.

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#1340301 - 01/04/10 03:03 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: cardguy]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7753
Originally Posted By: cardguy
I think we all see the world through the lens of our own experience and our own DNA. From time immemorial the older generation has complained about the younger. And I suppose in some ways I myself have become that inflated old man. I agree that there's so much more readily available information out there for the kids. One would have to be blind to argue otherwise. But I see a cheapening in our culture nonetheless, a creeping nastiness that deeply troubles me.

I'm probably wrong. Vain old men usually are, historically speaking.



Yes, the older generation always does complain about the younger and say that the world is going to pieces. I remember being on the receiving end of it when I was young. However, enough cultures actually have gone to pieces that at times there may be some truth to the complaint (and reason to worry). The trick is in figuring out what is just the usual intergenerational stuff, and what is actual change on a larger scale. I am pretty pessimistic about the bigger picture, myself.

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#1340347 - 01/04/10 05:48 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Mark_C]
kevinb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
Originally Posted By: MarkCannon
Originally Posted By: 1RC
Speaking of sunspots, it occurred to me the other day that it makes absolutely no difference in my life whether I think of the sun as a huge ball of gas way out there in the centre of our solar system, or a ball of fire drawn across the sky each day by a chariot.

In case you're not just being clever smile .....I wanted to say that actually it does make a difference.

Because if you think the latter, chances are you're the kind of person who thinks a lot of other stupid stuff and makes a lot of stupid and possibly deadly decisions each and every day. ha


I'm pretty sure we all go through life believing a whole bunch of stuff that is untrue, simply because it doesn't affect us in any practical way. Thinking the Sun is drawn across the sky by a chariot may be a particularly egregious example, but in theory I doubt it's much different from many of the other misconceptions I hold, and of which I am blissfully unaware.

Of course, if I continue in my misguided understanding of the Sun, having been shown conclusively that it is incorrect, that is where deadly decisions can start to be taken.

Or so it seems to me.

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#1340396 - 01/04/10 09:05 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: beet31425]
moscheles001 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/08
Posts: 753
Loc: Northeast Pennsylvania
quote]Dude, I thought you guys were talking about Arnold Schoenberg's Theory of Harmony or Fundamentals of Musical Composition. I was thinking... 50 times? 200 times?[/quote]

So, you're correcting my spelling and then following it up with some high-culture name-dropping! You must be one of them elitists!!

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#1340408 - 01/04/10 09:15 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: wr]
moscheles001 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/08
Posts: 753
Loc: Northeast Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: xtraheat
No, they are leveled by people who are sick and tired of people thinking that they are superior to others.



If you are unable to differentiate between people who have ego issues that make them think they are superior to others as people, and people who know they have knowledge about a given art, you are in for a very hard time of it. I have no reason to apologize for knowing what I know, nor for having the experience with music I have had, even as an amateur. Some of us actually do have knowledge and experience others may not have. If you confuse that fact that with some sort of ego issues, that's your problem, not everyone else's. With all due respect, if you have some sort of inferiority/authority thing going that makes you twitch whenever anyone demonstrates expertise, that is not their problem, it is yours.

Quote:


If you all haven't noticed, pianists like Horowitz, Argerich, Cziffra, etc. never made claims like this.


Claims like what?

Quote:


It is the same throughout almost all of the arts and other activities... The best and most talented people do not brag and make arrogant statements, and they accept people that are more ignorant of their art. The people that brag and are elitist are usually the less talented people who need to reassure themselves about their ability and knowledge.


You and I have no idea what the best and most talented people do and say in their everyday life and in dealings with others. But as a hint, if you start reading a lot of bios and and music history books, you'll find that a lot of the big talents bragged and were as arrogant as anybody. And that's just the stuff that got reported. Just yesterday I was listening to a piece on BBC Radio 3 about Mozart teaching someone, and how he wrote in the student's workbook "You are an ass. You are an ass."



Thanks, WR; my thoughts exactly. I just couldn't put it into words as well as you.

With that Mozart, quote, though: considering what we now know about him, that may have been intended as a compliment.

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#1340876 - 01/04/10 07:32 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: PJG]
Stearman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 63
Loc: Montana, USA
I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but after reading some YouTube comments, I have come to the conclusion that there are a bunch of stupid people out there. That being said, I am even more shocked by some of the rude responses to videos. Dear old mom would knock me through a wall if I said some of those rude comments.

Life is Hard. It is even harder when your stupid. Get an education. It is the best investment you can give yourself.

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#1340890 - 01/04/10 07:52 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Stearman]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10349
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Ah, YouTube comments.

On occasion, someone will take the time to give a thoughtful comment appropriately expressed in respectful and helpful language. Alas, this is all too rare. Most of the short comments are innocuous enough ... things like 'thumbs up' or 'awesome, dude.' But a lot of the negative commentary seems ego-driven and quite ignorant. Also, many of the most critical commentary comes from people who do not have any work of their own available for review. In other words they have very little standing to criticize, other than that they have a public platform and an opinion. Also, much of the most negative commentary is very poorly argued. Much of it is also very badly written.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1341920 - 01/05/10 10:37 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: Piano*Dad]
LaReginadellaNotte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/23/09
Posts: 390
I think that you'll find a very wide variety of comments on youtube: thoughtful ones, knowledgable ones, ignorant ones, and mere spam. It's difficult to generalize about youtube users, as there are both great ones and horrible ones. For what it's worth, people may not be as stupid as they sound in some cases. A lot of posters will make outrageous or offensive comments when they are protected by the anonymity of the Internet. It may not be a reflection of how they would act in real life.

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#1341945 - 01/05/10 11:15 PM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: cardguy]
crogersrx Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 712
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Originally Posted By: cardguy
..."I really love this song. LOL"

(In response to a surpassingly difficult Chopin etude) "I played this song 10 years ago. My teacher liked the way I played it. LOL."

"Can anyone tell me where I can get the sheets to this song? LOL"

I'm just making these up as I go along, but catches the flavor I think.

Accuse me of elitism if you want, or perhaps grumpy old mannism, but I can't shake the depressing sense that our culture is in decline.... Of course, it's also true that I was a drooling idiot myself until I hit 40 or so :-)


As another grumpy quadragenerian to another, I can agree that it is irksome to see how our society has crumbled if you based it purely on this type of evidence. Having not so long ago gone back to school for a new career, and assimilating with a class of people at least a generation younger than I, I learned some things about how communications (espeicially online) have evolved.

Online text communications can be rather sterile, so people who are very comfortable with them have grown pretty proficient at painting in their emotions, expressions, even body language, so that other people will understand their intents better. Could be that some of these inane comments are just a way of being coy and shading their statements with worded versions of what would otherwise be seen in body language, voice tone, etc if the conversation happened in person.
_________________________
Cary Rogers, PharmD
San Francisco, CA
1887 Knabe 6'4" (Rebuilt)

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#1342077 - 01/06/10 04:37 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: crogersrx]
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
I get alot of comments that are mainly positive, but tend to be just things like 'omg' or 'dude this is awesome' (dont take this the wrong way - I am not showing off!) which is nice as you know people are enjoying your performance. However I strongly believe the vast majority of youtube listeners do not fully understand a good classical performance and how to compare one performance to another, which one is superior etc. I have seen some truly awful performances on youtube that have 10 million views and far better performances that have no where near that amount of views. Youtube is all about popularity and whether your video is top of the search page on youtube when you type something in. Everyone watches the first page normally, like when you google something, why bother to look through all the videos when you can select the most popular one thinking its automatically the best because it has most views and pops up first. I have almost given up on youtube as there are performers on there who think they are amazing and the best thing in the world because they have thousands of subscribers and people listening to them. No one cares about classical piano and true talented players, they would rather listen to the boy in his bedroom playing a digital piano and comment that he is the next Beethoven or Mozart!!! These are the kind of comments I detest most on youtube. How dare anyone say that about some pop playing pianist who cant read a note of music! What they dont realise is you cant call a piano player the next Mozart as Mozart was not famed for his piano playing anyway (Beethoven more so, yes) - try composing music when you are 6 years old of his quality and maybe yes you may be potentially the next Mozart, otherwise stop being ignorant and get an education.
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#1342078 - 01/06/10 04:40 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: mwf]
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
Basically youtube = popular = good to most people. This is the problem. Popular does not mean better.
_________________________
www.youtube.com/ukpiano

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#1342082 - 01/06/10 05:01 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: mwf]
Samuel1993 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 351
Loc: United Kingdom
I think my pet peave on Youtube is calling a piece of Music, a 'song'. mad
_________________________
Currently working on...
Chopin - Fantasie Impromptu in C sharp minor Op.66
Mozart - Piano Sonata in E flat K.282
Liszt - Romance in E minor "O pourquoi donc" S.196

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#1342124 - 01/06/10 08:04 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: xtraheat]
Juli_et Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 34
Loc: On, Canada
Originally Posted By: xtraheat
Our culture is in decline because of this annoying elitism, not because someone is friendly and enthusiastic about something but doesn't know much about it...

When we were in university we did not have much money but we went a few times to the opera (last minute student tickets). We could not afford to buy expensive clothes so we went with our normal clothes on. I found that the opera we went to was quite friendly because people looked happy to see young people there. They did not seem bothered by our clothes. However, we went to our home city opera with special deals for students, again with our normal clothes, people dressed in cocktail dresses and very expensive clothes just looked at us like we were garbage. I even heard someone saying "Today there all kind of PEOPLE coming to the opera" with a snob look on us. I felt so bad being there that I could not enjoy the opera at all. I never went back there and thought that is why someone not already a classical music enthusiast who wants to explore this area might have a very bad experience and hate it forever.

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#1342145 - 01/06/10 08:59 AM Re: YouTube Comments [Re: pianoloverus]
Juli_et Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 34
Loc: On, Canada
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
There are plenty of well educated people who know little about pianos or classical music. I once told an intelligent adult I was having serious problems with my piano(before I got my BB) and they replied "Oh, it needs a tuning?" Some very smart people who don't play any instrument have told me they thought that as long as one could read music(the notes), the pieces I play don't require any practice.

I have too examples of educated people who know little about a subject I have some knowledge. But they probably know more than I do on other subjects. But I always wonder why some people just assume things like "Oh, it needs a tuning?" instead of something like "I know nothing about pianos, is it tuning problems or something else?"

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