Hello. I've been taking 1 on 1 lessons for a few weeks now. My teacher is really nice but I don't like that she is being too easy on me. I'm 21 and I am a beginner, never played piano before or any other instrument. I've already made great progress in those 5-6 weeks, I can play songs with both hands even though they are just beginner pieces for level 1 or so.

During winter vacation these past 2 weeks I didn't have a chance to get any lessons because everyone is celebrating the holidays but I worked hard every day and learned things on my own. I learned a few scales to the point when I can play them easily without even thinking about it and with proper fingering... Also I learned a 6-page Sonatina which I finished yesterday and now it only needs finishing touches and lots of practice to make it flow a bit better. I have some problematic areas which I'm working on fixing, I made notes on the sheets and all that, so I really feel I did a good job working with the material and not just fooling around on the piano. My time with the piano is limited so I try to make the most of it every day. I try to play with dynamics, I circled all the dynamic markers because my eyes seem to miss them while I sight read the sheets and play at the same time. I found that during faster parts of the piece I was loosing track of the sheet music but that wasn't so bad because when I started playing it at proper tempo I already had most of it memorized, well my fingers knew it somehow.

Anyway, how should I approach this matter? I know it's probably normal for a teacher to doubt the future of a late beginner and not to hold him to any high standarts but I think I should talk to her and maybe try to explain my goals. I think that even if she thinks it's impossible (i.e. I want to play lots of Beethoven one day as well as some of the harder Chopin pieces such as Winter Wind Etude) I should tell her to give me all the material necessary, all the theory, explain everything I need to do, show me proper technique and I will try my best to follow along.

It sounds easier in my head but when I talk to her I can sense that she's not a very serious teacher, I'm sure I will in time go above her level because piano is not her major but for the time being I'd like to learn as much as possible from her. I'd like to think she knows what she's doing but I don't think she knows how to handle an adult beginner. Her approach is too mellow.

Any advice for this particular situation? I can't afford another teacher currently and at my level it's not necessary. I can learn enough from my current one before moving on.

Not sure why you're afraid to tell your teacher you want to go at a faster pace if you're an adult already. Just be assertive and have an adult conversation with her. After all, she works for you.

Oh really. If I were the teacher and any student or parent or adult beginner showed that they take me for their employee ... well, I won't finish the phrase, better to stay polite.

It is probably more helpful to get at the actual situation. Teodor, you should explore goals with your teacher to make sure that you are on the same page. If she knows that you want to pursue piano seriously, including getting at things such as theory and technique or "anything necessary" as you have written, then she can plan her lessons accordingly. We students come in a wide variety of tastes and wishes and without that feedback teachers have to make do with what they can guess. You could be a student who wants to be an instant Horowitz, or a student who wants to do things that come easy, or any number of things. Talk to your teacher and see what happens.

It is not a case of "being the employer" but a case of letting the teacher have a clear idea what kinds of goals you have in mind that she is helping you with. After that the teacher carries the expertise (hopefully) in getting you there.

Teodor, if I understand your situation both you and your teacher are students at the same college.

From what you say, I don't think that you can ask much more of her. And if you express the sentiment that she is not up to your level, that will not help things at all. I would, however, try to change the relationship with her, so that it is less formally teacher-student, she may loosen up and discuss with you more broadly than in these formal lessons.

Is there a music department in your school?

Are you ok with being trained to become a mediocre pianist? Many so-called "teachers" will be able to explain the grand staff and how to read notes, and fix mistakes, but often the "cheap" inexperienced teachers aren't able to go beyond and explain, much less demonstrate, healthy technique, relaxation and efficiency, and good tone production. These things ought to be taught early on to develop good habits.

Perhaps your teacher is spending time on all these things, but you feel like you can move at a faster pace. Keep in mind that it's not simply about being able to execute a task, but also about the control and beauty of the execution. Sometimes these things take awhile to become natural and musical.

It is a fact, in my world, that the better the teacher the faster the results - often by astounding measures.

EVERY person has limited time. There is SO much to learn in music that only the most efficient methods of teaching produce stellar results. Sometimes a student, learns these on his own but most of the time not.

In financial terms, you pay more for each lesson but your learning pace can increase 1000 fold from a mediocre teacher to a fabulous one. In financial terms the better teacher is a far far better deal.

As a teacher, I enjoy students who push me. It's fun.

Just tell your teacher you want to 'step it up'. Keep in mind, that it is important to go through the steps of learning - do not skip steps. Again a good teacher will know this.

OK, looks like I touched a sensitive nerve here by saying the wrong thing so I want to go on the record and take it back. I just want to make a point about the OP as an adult should be able to speak up and not be afraid to let his teacher know what he wants out of it because after all, he's paying for the lesson. I never meant to imply for him to show any disrespect to the teacher.

Just so you know, my daughter is a piano teacher herself, and she has ditched an adult student before for not showing enough respect to her. Nothing blatant, just enough of a mild tone and an attitude now and then so after about 4 lessons, he was gone.

Rather than employer-employee, I think it's like a client who has hired a professional. I can relate to that directly within my present profession, because lay people as well as agencies will hire me for whatever project. They will get the best results if I can follow my procedure and judgment according to my expertise. At the same time, it is important for me to know what their goals and circumstances are. I will then use what I know best in order to give a client the best results toward his goals.

In the same way, I think a student has to let a teacher know his wishes, but not dictate procedure. That is, if the student wants to pursue music fully, including whatever theory is necessary, or if the student wants to just be able to get by enough to play his favourite pieces, or if the student wants to be able to play by ear and improvise. If a teacher doesn't know these goals, then she won't structure her lessons in the same way. The teacher may also make assumptions that are false.

On the other hand, if a student starts telling a teacher what methodology she should use, which pieces or exercise she should pick, then a line has been crossed. Going back to professions in general, some clients try to tell me what tools I should use, or what my procedure should be - this would actually hurt the quality of what I can produce for them. The same would be true for a teacher.

The problem is that adult students appear to be a gray area. We have differing goals and backgrounds, and if a teacher guesses the wrong thing then misunderstandings can abound for a long time. I used to think that it was very simple. A teacher would know what it is we need in order to play an instrument well, and all we had to do is get out of the way and follow. That is not always the case. If a teacher has the wrong idea of what we want, and gears lessons toward it, then it can go to funny places. We have to know how to speak up.

No, no, she's graduated but her major is accordeon but you know how they force piano upon everyone in music school. I'm having a hard time deciding if she loves the piano or not. If the answer is yes then I want to learn from her, if she has no real interest in the instrument and it's just a job for her then... I need a new teacher.

I'm THIS close to sleeping in the practice room already, so I think I can work more and I'll have to talk to my teacher to see if she will help me with that. She's probably holding off on theory and boring stuff (which I don't find boring at all) because she doesn't want to scare me off in the beginning or something...

Thanks for all the advice. I'd hate to think of her as someone I pay to work for me. It's more like... we are working together. Teachers learn from their students as well, it's not a one-way thing and feedback from both sides is essential

What exactly are her qualifications? How many years has she taught piano, and if she's new to it, is she serious about piano teaching in the future? It sounds to me like this might not be a good "match", but the only way to find out is to be direct with her. Tell her first thing at the next lesson, or call her on the phone to discuss it ahead of time. Just let her know what your dreams are, and if she is capable of helping you get there. She should be honest with you, and if it's more than she can give, ask her for referrals to other teachers.

Excellent thread. Thanks for creating this. Very good points, Morodiene. I'm depressed now. I really need a teacher

Teodor,

If you want fast action toward achievement you will get yourself a experienced teacher who has a track record in producing serious adult students.

There is theory, technique, exercises, repertoire, memorization, interpretation, vocabulary, keyboard orientation, music grand staff notation, rhythm, harmony, improvisation, composing, performance....all kinds of subsets that you want your teacher to have optimum knowledge on...based on your goals and intentions of course. Where you want to go, your teacher has to have been there before you.

A piano teacher can not teach what they do not know. Playing piano well does not compute by itself to being a good teacher of piano. Teaching well shows in the results that the student gets from his lessons provided that the student is following instructions and doing his best to prepare and practice for each and every lesson.

If you want results go to a person who gives results.

The focus has to be on you and what you want to do and what you can do will follow with the right learning situation. Find your very best situation available to you.

I have to disagree.

A person with no "track record" may prove to be an excellent teacher.

It is also often the case that someone with less than optimum knowledge has a great deal to transmit to a beginning level student. One of those things may be that one can love playing music without being "optimum" and without the ambition to be.

Also it could be that Teodor doesn't perceive many things that this young lady is teaching him. Could be that he is chafing at the wrong bit while she is pulling on the right one.

Besides, it seems that this young lady ... I don't say teacher because I have the impression that she is not ... it seems that this young lady has taught something to Teodor already. She has already given a certain result. After all, he has advanced, so he says.

But then again, I am not a piano teacher and my knowledge is anything but optimum.

I heard of a man who tried to save money by asking his Podiatrist to check his teeth.

Does this seem reasonable to you? It seems ridiculous to me, yet, people willingly study piano with organists, accordionists, bagpipers, etc. Just because these instruments share a keyboard doesn't make the technique for playing them anyway similar.

Teodor, if you are serious about learning piano, find a teacher who is both a competent pianist and excellent teacher. Can your teacher play the repertoire you aspire to? If not, how are they going to prepare you to do so? As Betty pointed out, you cannot teach what you don't know. Your current teacher can read notes, so she's teaching you note reading. It sounds as if she understands phrasing and dynamics and is sharing that with you. It's what she doesn't know, however, will hold you back.

On your original question, I always find it difficult to balance what students perceive as "progress" that is, playing more difficult sounding pieces, with insuring they have the technique necessary to play them well. Adults are often impatient, thus sew the seeds for their own technical limitations later on.

Another point to make is that I teach my adult beginners the same material as I give my college-bound music majors. The only difference may be that I teach more goal-oriented pieces to get them ready for college auditions at the places they want to apply. But still my adult students get theory, sight reading, technique and repertoire like the rest of them. If an adult has a particular interest in a style I'll give them that, too, but I refuse to cheat them on the other skills. If this teacher is capable of teaching theory, then why isn't she? Perhaps it's just a matter of letting her know you want that stuff, or perhaps she doens't know how to teach it. There's only one way to know.

John, can you explain this a bit more? I'm not sure what you mean. Doesn't playing more difficult pieces (if you're doing it well), mean that you have the technique?

This is not really relevant at my current stage. It will take years to develop technique to play such pieces. I will only have this teacher for 1 or 2 years at most anyway since I'm going abroad.

I just wish I didn't give up music when I was younger. Now I've wasted so much time trying to please my family by doing a serious major in university. I just hope I don't turn into one of those lifeless zombies we see on the bus or in the metro - all those people who once had dreams and aspirations but somehow they lost them along the way.

Every teacher doesn't know many things. Every teacher holds you back on a certain terrain ... while advancing you on another.

Hey, Teodor, haven't you read the "are you weird" thread. These might be Piano World afficionados ... or afflictionados.

The metro? Sounds like your already in Paris!

It should, if - as you say - you're doing them well. The problem is, a lot of people are impatient, and want to move on to rep. that's too advanced too soon. As a result, they don't learn the pieces well, and develop bad habits to compensate for not being ready to play those pieces.

If you get paid by your students for teaching them, then yeah, you are employed by the student. I don't get what's so hard to understand about that. You may not like the wording, but it's a business relationship or am I missing something here.

That's an astounding generalization. I and many of the teachers here know one heck of a lot about performing and teaching. If you came to me and asked for advanced jazz techniques, I'd be quite up front and tell you I cannot provide it. But from the sounds of Teodor's post, he's looking for classical repertoire, which most piano teachers can handle quite well.

Mary, some students have a strong need to have "impressive" sounding repertoire. The trick is to find pieces which sound impressive, provide technical growth for the student, but doesn't task them with skills they cannot cope with.

Playing more difficult pieces well probably does mean you have the technique, but students often over-rate the quality of their playing by many degrees. I suspect this may be true here.

I recall my own experience as a high school student - I was very impressed with a fellow student's playing (Rustles of Spring) so much so that I recorded it and one day, had my teacher evaluate it. I was expecting high praise, instead I got a "Well, she's certainly mastered some of the difficulties of that piece. It sounds like she has the potential to go on to study in college, and become a very good musician." I was crushed (note - there was no romantic interest there - just an overly impressionable youth).

This is why teaching students to listen from day one is so important. We hear what we want to hear, but we must learn to hear what is actually coming out of our instrument.

Don't you just love this post in the piano teachers forum?

A student asks a question: "Any advice on this situation?"

And then after posting our best replies for his situation, our years of experience and the quality of our teaching mean nothing.

We are not being seen or heard as the professionals we are.

There is the issue of us "being employed" by adult students again when music education is a professional service and we establish fees and work by appointments just as lawyers, doctors, dentists, physical therapist and many other professionals do. We have years of our own training when we were students where we did all the work required of us and then for many of us, working for a college degree(s) in music, then the on-going education we continue to seek, and the years of successful music teaching experience we have achieved.

With all of this, our reputations are based on the outcome of how we are preceived by our clients. The more education that has been received by our clients, the more highly teachers are likely to be valued.

Notice that:
1) the original poster has been taking lessons for a few weeks now,
2) he is "studying" with an inexperienced teacher (it seems),
3) he is asking for our advice,
4) we give it advice, which is valued not one little bit.

I think that is because the question postedis really an "ego" statement of how grandly an adult student is doing and that the teacher does not meet his needs.

We can not solve this problem for anyone. Encouraging someone to find a good, reliable, experienced, reputable, real, professional piano teacher is not a popular thing to expect.

Every time we take on posts like this it seems to me that we continue to deal with this issue over and over and rarely does our advice get considered as a possibility.

Maybe we can learn from this lesson we are receiving?

These people have no capacity to accept our advice because they have no background with which to know we speak from intelligence and from personal knowledge.

So, maybe we should be thankful that we can avoid situations like this in our private studios and I think also in our responses to these kinds of questions.

Self protection is needed in our very own forum for piano teachers. We are talking to the wind.

I am interested in legitimate adult students of all ages in my private studio as well as young musicians and their parents as clients. When adult students private message me I am happy to help them because they approach respectfully and I think I have made many friends on the forum because of connecting together about music.

I have a lot of respect for many of the teachers here on the forum and it bothers me greatly for any of us and all of us to be disrespected and dissected here.

Are piano teachers supposed to say "Mea culpa, Mea culpa, Mea maxima culpa"? (To my fault, to my fault, to my most grievous fault?) I am tired of questions that are traps for us.

I would really appreciate hearing positive comments in behalf of our teacher/members of the forum. Most of us work very hard in pursuit of excellence for all of our students and for ourselves in the love of music.

Betty Patnude

Really? I didn't get that from the OP.

I have to agree with the above. As an adult student without a teacher, I envy those having the time and mean to afford one. I have been following this thread with interest the last few days for its different point of views from experienced Pianists and teachers alike. I admire your work and wish I could have a teacher like you, Betty Patnude, John Brook, Morodiene or a few others giving constructive advices here. I see that ego in the OP but didn’t think it’s any of my business to speak up. If you’re hurt, please keep in mind that there are grateful Adult Students out there who respect and value your profession with our utmost regard.

I have no doubt that this is true, John. Don't mean to suggest otherwise.

However, this podiatrist ... um I mean accordeonist may have something to say on the piano, despite being inexperienced, without reputation, amateur (not professional).

Maybe there'll be a happy ending to the story, if you know what I mean: Teodor will take up accordeon and we'll see him in Montmartre, singing "La vie en rose".

Perhaps we can squeeze a happy ending out of this situation?

Huh? I didn't read the OP as an ego statement. Please point out so I can understand what you mean Betty.