Hi,

I wonder how hard it is to get your work published. How does it work? Do you send your work to a lot of publishers and wait for a response? Should you be patient and for how long?

* Can you get your work published with several publishers at the same time or do you stick with one?

* How about the €? How much % does the publisher get?

I am working on something, it is not complete at all yet, but I would like to be prepared when it is.

Any other recommendations?


Jis

( I would really like to publish something, not for the money, but for the fun. Creating music makes me very happy !!!)

You typically send it out to one publisher at a time. (Because if two accept it, then you end up having to disappoint one, and they're usually not very happy about that and you get a reputation of being difficult to work with.)

Depends on the arrangement with the publisher. Some publishers will ask for "right of first refusal," meaning they get to see your work first, and if they pass, then you can send it to another. Others just accept things one piece at a time.

Publishers get anywhere from 80%-95%. You will NOT get rich writing music.

Check out ASCAP - they have a lot of good advice (although since you're in Europe, I'm not sure everything will apply overseas.)

There are also free self-publishing services these days, if you want to publish a collections of compositions with your friends or if you have enough to publish a whole book...
But a real publisher is better.

"You typically send it out to one publisher at a time" - Kreisler


I once thought that way, however, that's not the best route to success. Better to send to several publishers at a time. One shouldn't concern themselves with disappointing publishers that may take six months to a year getting back to you (which many do).

Only send to publishers that you’re serious about, then play it on the “first come, first serve” basis.

As far as getting pieces published by one or several publishers; that would depend on the arrangement and relationship you have with them. If your contract states “exclusive”, then your work contained in the agreement can only be published by the exclusive company.

If you decide to only send to one publisher at a time, I would say two months is a fair amount of time to wait for an answer.

Make sure your contract has a 3-5 year reversal clause. You wouldn’t want your music to gather dust on a publisher’s shelf for eternity.

John

Thanks for all your responses.



So one or the other is not really 'not done'.




I might look into that for a start. Have a 'test' among friends and family, maybe edit here and there and when they like it try to get it officially published.





I knew you do not become rich by composing, but that's stunning!

Self publishing is becoming very popular among composers these days. The way I see it, there are two problems with self-publishing:

1) Low distribution/marketing - you have to "get the word out" yourself, and it can be difficult getting your work sold by retailers

2) Questionable quality - I'd say about 95% of the scores I've seen that are self-published are very poorly edited.


Of course, there are also two big upsides:

1) The money's a lot better. Last I checked, LULU was around 50%, or you could do the printing yourself and take all the money.

2) Control. When you publish something with a publisher, they own the rights to your work and can do whatever they want with it, including ignore it. Revisions have to wait for future printings, which means the piece has to be popular enough to warrant future printings.

I agree that a query letter or a phone call before submitting is appropriate. It will save time and money. Many times publishers don't accept unsolicited material.

I think Lulu gives you 80%...
About editing though, if you do it for free they don't edit at all. They also have editors I think, but I am not sure if they have any for music. It costs some money though to have your work edited.

Publishers are going to look for unique and high quality work they can push on the market. You might end up losing money in the long run. Not only will the publisher take 70+% of what your profits are but he will push for more if it doesn't increase. Depending on what it cost them to push your material. You have to understand it will cost them money, so if you don't sell anything and they put money in to publishing your material they will come after you to at least break even. You have to at least be sure you break even. I have friends in the marketing and publishing scene and I talk to them all the time... and guess what, even through friends I don't dare to publish my work. So here comes my advice:

If you don't care about the money and want to publish your work simply stay digital, everyone likes this route who doesn't want to deal with money and publishers. Simply publish your work on all the available websites that offer it for free (Good way to test if people will like your work as well). You can even for a fee put your work on Itunes if you think it will sell and skip the many things that come with publishing. Transcribe your own work to notes and put it up as well if that is what you want.

I'll be honest with you. Composing piano has changed from being a career and artistic job to being simply another hobby and interest. Very few make themselves a name. Either by being in a motion picture, being able to pull off such complicated pieces that they can perform live and attract an audience, or teach. I don't see much money anywhere else. It has actually sadly becoming more profitable lately to sell pianos than to actually play them.

Like I said, I have friends in the business and I don't publish my work.

Good luck and feel free to ask anything.

MelodicCure is right on the money (sorry the pun). It's next to impossible to sell printed piano music.

Though there is a market for Public School "band" arrangements of assorted music (and printed secular music). Other than school and church the market is near dry.

If you have quality sound recordings of your work, try placing it in a film music library. If the music becomes popular in film you'll have a market for it (though still small).

Even the big companies like Sony don't release printed music until the piece gains popularity.

50 years ago sheet music was in demand, but then there seemed to be a piano in every household with a person that could play it. Now with the Internet, video games, Facebook, Myspace, etc, etc, fewer and fewer people are learning to play piano. Such a shame.

So there you have it. Another thing we can blame the Internet for.

John

By far the biggest market is for educational music. The major publishers are Alfred (the Alfred method and Frances Clark, Dennis Alexander, Catherine Rollin, Robert Vandall, Martha Mier, Melody Bober) and Hal Leonard (HL Method, Piano Adventures, Phillip Kevern, Carol Klose, Jennifer Linn) are the two big educational publishers, and a few smaller ones like Kjos (Piano Town, Keith Snell), FJH (Kevin Olson, Edwin McLean, Kevin Costly, Carol Matz, Robert Schultz, Elizabeth Greenleaf, Helen Marlais, Yours Truly), and Frederick Harris (Canadian RCM Materials, Nancy Telfer, Alexina Louie, Stephen Chatman.)

For concert music, most people are self-publishing these days, although some people have been able to get noticed by larger publishers. Someone I went to school with was signed by Schirmer ( Gabriela Lena Frank ), and another wonderful composer I went to school with publishes his own works ( Armando Bayolo ). There are also a lot of grey areas in between. Some people are published by multiple composers, some specialize and write for one. For many, the primary source of income is from commissions, not publication. And while the quality of someone's music is certainly of primary importance, self-promotion skills, connections, and perseverance mean an awful lot.

Also, I don't think there's much of a market for piano music these days. I can't think of a single active composer for whom piano music is the focus of their career. Lowell Lieberman probably comes closest with Gargoyles and the Nocturnes, but he's also written extensively for other instruments. (The Flute sonata is great fun!)

I think it's great that we have Kreisler to advise us about such things, being that he is now a recognized music education publisher himself. You hardly let us know about this, Kreisler.

Of course, that is being published under your real name, which I'm not sure you make known to PWF members. Your being a professor of music yourself is also one of those really professionally recognized high places.

Also, Scott McBride Smith visited PWF not too long ago, and most MTNA piano teachers are going to know his reputation as a pedagogue, editor/writer, and composer.

My new digital piano and computer are waiting for me to get the instruction from the finale software to learn how to operate everything to print the music I'm composing.

I think it's exciting to take this path and I'm looking forward to seeing how my results works for others in music education composing. I wish I'd become technically adept a long time ago!

I'm reading this topic avidly. Thanks for posting everyone!

Betty Patnude

It always annoys me when people use internet forums to market themselves. I figure if people are really interested in who I am and what I do, they can click the link to my blog in my signature or check my homepage from my member profile. My name isn't hidden, but you have to do a little clicking to find it.

There is also the Sibelius site http://www.sibeliusmusic.com/. This requires you to have a copy of Sibelius (not necessarily the full version) to upload but anyone can view your uploaded score if they install a free plugin, Sibelius Scorch, into their browser.

There is no charge to you and you can either make your music free or set a price for each time it is printed. As I recall you get to keep 50% of whatever the music sells for. I have no idea as to whether anyone makes any money from this site, so far I have not since the one item I have there is free to download.

You said that you were interested in publishing more for the fun than for the money, if so this is one way to do that.

Finale has something similar: Finale Showcase ...

[Mistake sorry]

Dumb question: WHAT, exactly, do you send in? A score? A MIDI recording? A recorded waveform? A CD? For those of us who our new, please share!

Thanks.

A score.

For complicated scores, an audio recording may help, but you're asking them to publish the score, and the better quality score you send them, the easier it is for the editors and engravers to prepare.