I wonder if I can get some inputs from both teachers and students on this forum on how often and where they have their recitals? And whether there are any who don't do/offer recitals at all (perhaps due to low teaching rates so you can't afford the costs, or due to being a private teacher and not having enough students, etc).

For teachers who organize recitals, I wonder if I can get some logistical information like the cost of renting a recital hall, what to look for in the venue, how early do you have to book it, how do you organize it, do you combine it with other local teachers to share cost, etc.

Thanks!

Local churches can be great venues, providing they have pianos that suit your needs. I have found that some churches will allow you to use their facility for free, in those cases, I offer to have their piano professionally tuned. As a professional, remember that you can deduct all recital costs on your tax returns.
Hosting an informal recital/piano party at a student's home is also good, I have found. Again, check out the piano first and I think offering to have it tuned is a nice thank-you gesture.
This spring, I plan to host a recital at my local Steinway store and for that they are charging a fee of $125.
Some local libraries/community centers have rooms with pianos that you can reserve for recitals. I have done this before, also, and while it only cost me $20 to reserve the room and use the piano, the piano was not in good condition the night of my program.

I totally respect those who hold studio recitals, but since you asked, I will tell you why I do not...

I, personally, think recitals have too much potential to cause psychological and emotional distress. In my experience both as a student and a teacher, I've seen more bad than good come out of the whole recital thing. When I have a student that seems to have a knack for or interest in performing, I encourage them and their parents to seek out performing opportunities at their school, church, etc. I also encourage them to play for guests at their homes. For the other students who like their lessons but only like playing in front of immediate family, I just don't force them to do more. I think it's a very personal thing whether you play the piano just for yourself or whether you are interested in performing for others.

A word of caution, though... I have lost a couple of students due to this policy. There were a couple of parents who were very demanding of their kids, and they really hated that I didn't force the kids to perform. In both cases, the parents pulled the kids from my studio to switch to a teacher who held recitals. Both kids quit within the year. Something to think about.

Just curious. What are your feeling about your students entering competitions?

As a parent, I strongly dislike recitals, except when they are organised with humour and when the talents of all the parents' little marvels are sacrificed to the spirit of a good time for all.

Like the time when the flute teacher and the viola teacher and two students did a comic act which finished with all four playing Bolero at the same time on a single viola !

A recital should be a blast instead of a sleepy pressure cooker.

landorrano... I like that!

Phlebas... I haven't entered any students into competitions either. If I had a high school age student who had the ability and desire to pursue the possibility of studying at the conservatory level, then I would float the idea to them and see how they felt about it. I would help them try it if they wanted to. It would be a good introduction to the competitive atmosphere of music school.

By that time it would likely be too late for that student. For most students, the ability to perform in public needs to be nurtured from a much earlier age. I say 'likely' because nothing is ever certain. I'm sure there are young people who step into their first competition at age 16 and blow the audience away. But I wouldn't count on it.

Hi Piano Dad... I respectfully disagree. I didn't say the student wouldn't be performing before that time. As I said in my first post above, I encourage my students who are so inclined to perform as much as possible from a very early age. It's just *competitions* that I do not think are necessary before high school. This is what I believe based on my years of experience as a student, performer, and teacher. I do not think competitions are ever mandatory for success in the music field.

EDIT: But, of course, I respect teachers who feel differently and can admit that some students might thrive on competitions. I just don't think they are a *prerequisite* for success.

Thank you for explaining.

I have two studio recitals per year, plus an adjudicated festival in the Fall (not public, one-on-one with me and the judge in the room) and an adjudicated festival in February (also private, but without me in the room.)

We have also done a holiday program at the hospital, several of my students have played in talent shows at their schools and churches, and one plays piano in her school jazz band.

Nobody is forced to play, but I do encourage it. I also have a couple of students who enter competitions.

Playing recitals is a lot like swimming. Throw a 9-year old into a pool unprepared and they're going to drown. Teach them to swim, start them off with floaties, and spend some time around water, and they'll take to it like a fish.

And now, Story Time:

10 years ago, I had a 5-year old student who had prepared William Gillock's "Puppy Dog" (Accent on Solos Bk. 1) for her first recital. She was a bright student who worked hard, but she was also quite young and quite shy. She was 4th on the program, and when her turn came, I turned around only to see the poor thing wrapped around her mother's leg in tears - terrified! The mother looked at me in horror, and you could hear a pin drop as an audience of 50 waited to see what would happen.

I walked up to her, took her by the hand, and said "come on, N, let's go play Puppy Dog..." We made our way to the piano, rather reluctantly, and I picked her up and set her on the piano bench. (She was too small to get up there by herself.) Then, I got a chair for myself and sat just to her right, same as in lessons, putting myself between her and the audience.

As in a lesson, I said "okay, let me hear Puppy Dog" and counted it off for her "1-2-1-2-3-4." She played, eyes the size of silver dollars, still terrified, but she was well-prepared, so she made it through with no problems whatsoever. The piece ended, and she returned her hands to her lap, still staring at the keyboard. I got up.

THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE.

I helped her off the bench and let her take a bow.

Then she took another bow. And one more, a huge smile growing on her face.

She ran back to her mother sporting and asked everyone within 10 feet "did you hear me play???" She spent the entire reception walking up to random strangers asking them "did you hear me play???" to which they responded "oh, yes, and you sounded lovely!"

So while recitals may have the potential to cause psychological and emotional distress, when handled well, they also have the potential to have great psychological and emotional benefits as well, and I think it's well worth the risk.

Great post, Kreisler. I think it just shows that there is room for lots of different opinions and methods when it comes to music. We all have different strengths and weaknesses and different personalities too. So, of course we have different styles and different ways of working. I loved your story.

My teacher has recitals 3-4 times a year...
I don't consider myself a performer, I always get super nervous, but I find that they're really helpful, both in preparing for exams and just getting a chance to perform. And it's also nice to watch other people play. The thing about recitals though, is that they're pretty expensive...

Terrific story, Kreisler. You handled that perfectly.

Thank you, Kreisler. I wept.

Kreisler,

I really liked the story of how a terrifying experience of the 5-year-old can be turned around.

I like the experience of playing in recitals because it can build up skills that may not necessarily be music-related: controlling nerves, presenting yourself well, knowing what it feels like to have all eyes and ears on you, being aware of surroundings even in a stressful situation, understanding that what may seem easy alone is difficult in front of a large audience.

For young students and teenagers, if handled well, it can prepare them for other endeavours. It also allows them to be sympathetic to someone else on stage.

The recitals I've attended have all been encouraging.

All of my beginner students start out in group piano classes. One of the benefits is that students get used to playing in front of each other from a very young age (I usually teach 6-10 in a class) and almost from the very beginning. When we have recitals (I do 2 per year), they are not stressful events with kids being terrified and not wanting to perform. My beginner recitals are class recitals with family members and friends (maybe a total of 25 people). After a year or so I enter them in our MTAC local branch recitals (a more traditional recital), and then we do Guild and Certificate of Merit.

I once received a private student who had transferred from a teacher known to be very strict and requiring near perfection of every piece (including every method piece learned). This student had studied with the teacher for 4 years and had NEVER participated in any recital; the teacher would only 'invite' certain students that she deemed worthy of including in a recital (this is what the parent told me). How sad.

Wow, thank you all for sharing your experiences and opinions on this. I learn a lot from what you share. Keep it coming!

Concerning Kreisler's story, it is cute, no doubt, and his reaction was tender.

However it seems to me that it was a traumatic event for the child, and not a positive experience.

I think it was more a learning experience where what was learned is:
1)You can confront a fearful situation, overcome your fear, and succeed.

2)Playing in front of people isn't as bad as facing te big bad wolf.

3) The work she did practicing and learning the piece stood her well in a performance situation.

My studio offers one formal recital opportunity for students in the school year; it is usually in June, and the expenses are recital hall rental, program printing, tux rental (for me), flowers, refreshments, awards, etc. These expenses are covered in the student's enrollment fee of $75 which they pay each Fall.

No student is forced to participate, and there is usually one student in twenty who, for what ever reason, wants to withdraw from the chance to play.

In addition, our community music teachers association offers three community recitals: Autumn Harvest, Sonatina Festival, Pop/Jazz/Duet Fest in Oct, Feb, and May respectively. These are inexpensive events, $5 each to perform.

My studio has a monthly "For Pianists Only" group lesson where students play for each other, as well as other activities. There are 10 of these through the year.

Finally, the students do National Piano Playing Auditions offered by the National Guild of Piano Teachers in late May. For this, they need to perform repertoire before an adjudicator. Repertoire, 4 to 15 pieces, must be played from memory.

Volusiano, you may be asking "Why so much?" I learned as a student that performing was awkward, could be frightening, etc., all the usual answers you get. My parents were nit-pickers, which didn't help one iota, and you better believe that some of your students "enjoy" nit-picking parents as well. And my teacher had one grand recital a year. You had better be perfect, period. Talk about performance anxiety.

I believe learning to cope with presentations in public is a skill, for most of us, which has to be learned and practiced. Some of us are natural show-offs, students with overly large egos, etc., who don't need this preparation, but if we want to develop all of our students, we need to spend time helping them overcome anxieties.

The best way, I believe, is excellent foundation and preparation, so the student has confidence that they can do well, and frequency, so that they get used to the spot light. Many will never become totally comfortable on the stage, and that's alright. As adults, however, these students will shine in their respective professions, as they will be able to "present" polished subject matter, whether a business proposal, a college lecture, or what ever.

By the way, it took me years to get to this way of thinking. As a young teacher, I did the usual once a year recital, but then, I began trying to analyze why some students excel and others always had an overdose of anxiety. As a result, my studio evolved to it's current practice.

Hope you find something useful in all this.

John

Subjectively on recitals: Everyone is in the same shoes, excitement and trepidation, others as you are so you are not alone. Audience is family and friends, rallying not only for their own, but everyone, aware of what has gone into this moment. Afterward we mingle, share stories, as parents or students or both. A recital is not a performance so perfection is not expected; it is a chance to experience and learn this. There is mutual support, a safe place, and of understanding. This is not just student to student, or parents/friends to student, but also parent to parent. Otherwise we are all in isolation, going through this individually. Our teacher sees performance as a reward, so perhaps he influences us to do likewise through his attitude.

If you take this away from us, then we are forced to create our own event, and experience it in isolation, among people who may not understand. Playing for family and friends is more difficult, because it is intimate, and one can feel one is imposing on others' goodwill when still a beginner. I was not comfortable doing so until after a few recitals. If I had a teacher who did not do recitals, I'd want to get together with some of the students and organize something on our own so that this group support could be there. Of course at that point we'd have a recital minus the teacher, which seems silly.

The two parents that went to another teacher who gave recitals, and the students then both quit music - they were pushy. "Ambition rears its ugly head." as someone used to say. If recitals are for showing off, pressures of perfection to put the student and/or teacher in a good light, then I can see how they can be traumatic. But does it have to be that kind of attitude? Can it not be doing your best, being well prepared, in the same way that you put on your best clothes, cook good meals, and decorate the house for Christmas?

Thanks, Keystring, for the reminder.

I reintroduced a studio Christmas recital this year, something I abandoned about 8 years ago, and it was a wild success. Parents were buzzing, students were jubilant. Because the wife & I had a trip to visit daughter and grand-children immediately afterward, I hadn't reflected on events very much. Now I need to spend some time analyzing the reasons why and what I can do to capture that for other events.

Perhaps you missed the part where she was all smiles and extremely excited and proud of her accomplishment when it was over?

Kreisler: Beautiful story!

More stories and opinions coming on:

* When I was much younger (lets say 10 or so) I would refuse to take part in ANY concert whatsoever. Had no trourble with anxiety (never do really), nor problems with memory, or with the exams. I just didn't feel I was proud of myself (I was NOt progressing for A LOT OF years, due to a 'bad' teacher). So I refused.

When I entered high school (lets say 15) I had a chance to play some music in my high school, choosen by me. I picked an easy Lyric piece from Grieg and a Sonatina from Beethoven (G major, don't recall op number right now). I loved it, because I felt proud of doing it alone.

From there on I try to get as much opportunities to play in public as possible!

* Now I have a couple of students, sisters. They changed from their old teacher last Xmas, so we've been together for something more than a year. They love my lessons.

So I proposed to have a mini concert for their family, friends, etc (nothing too big). the older one, 14 year old was pretty fine and is struggling with the D minor Fantasy of Mozart. The younger one, however, seems to have a few 'issues' (phychological).

She's been used to been perfect in school, which has led to a certain shiness (being afraid of err). And I tried to bring as much officiality (normal concerts, recitals, bowing, etc) in our last lesson as possible. Usually lessons are huge fun for all of us, full of jokes, silly things, I play computer game tunes, bring some comic books, DVDs, take them to concert (with their parents of course), etc. But the last concert I went dead serious!

So older one coped fine, but the younger one didn't! She didn't break down, but couldn't stop laughing (nervous laugh) to the point that I stopped the lesson for a full 10 minutes, until she would over come it. We were alone in the room of course, but I put her through a simulation of doing a full recital and she crumbled under the pressure.

But she managed, after the 10 minute break. She played fine and she's ready for the concert. We still have a lesson between now and the concert, so I'll double check, but thing is that once we finished I got to her parents and kinda 'pushed' her to brag about what she did, almost overdoing it a little, that she did exactly like a normal concert and she did great, and so on. Leaving of her house she was VERY proud of herself and clear that she did manage to overcome here fear!

_________________________

Concerts and student recitals can have a great benefit, as well as problematic results, if not handled correctly I say. But if everyone handles things like Kreisler did, there shouldn't be "any" problem really!

By the way, I should say that while I believe in my approach 100%, I also believe 100% that there need to be teachers like RachelJ in the world as well.

I think the piano teaching community needs to strive for diversity in approaches and styles. I think every teacher needs to have a passionate belief in their approach. Together, we serve a diverse public with diverse needs, and there's room enough for all of us.

Obviously, my teaching style is a little closer to John's than Rachel's or Edward's (Weiss), but the world needs Rachels and Edwards just as badly as it needs Jasons and Johns. In every way that matters, we are on the same team, after all!

GO TEAM PIANO!

I would suggest that a recital is seen as a different function by different people.

I see it as a seminal event, in common with many educational experiences. It forces you on a periodic basis to prepare at a higher level - like a college term paper, perhaps, or maybe a thesis or a licensing exam. I observe that this kind of requirement elicits a higher level of focus and performance than a class without it.

Others see it as a learning experience for the purpose of either learning to perform, or learning to cope with performance anxiety.

Or, it can be a rewarding performance opportunity - distinct from a purely pedagogical event.

The presence of an audience tends to blur the boundaries.

In my very inexpert opinion, most people should benefit from the seminal event approach. Most people should be finding performance activities less artificial and more rewarding than a recital (whether or not they do recitals). And whether a person needs the anxiety coping training would be very individual.

My sentiments exactly, Kreisler, thanks. We all have to be true to ourselves as teachers, and the students and teachers that are right for each other will gravitate towards each other. It would be as crazy for a teacher to think they were perfect for every student as it would be for a student to think that any teacher would be equally effective for them.

I'm not sure I fully understand the the actual difference here. Rachael states that while she doesn't host the recitals, she encourages students who show an inclination to seek out performance opportunities; Kreisler & I (and many others) host recitals, but don't force students to participate. I've never given students an ultimatum, but many students are anxious about the unknown, once they try something, they often find, "Hey, this isn't so bad." And some, like Kreisler's young lady, actually have a sea change in attitude.

The difference, at least in part, would seem to be that you and Kreisler create a performance culture, whereas Rachel does not. This is not a judgment between the approaches, but a description based on what I have read here.

Sure, you do not force anyone to perform, but the culture of performance seems to pervade your whole approach to music. This will lead to self-selection. Students who are comfortable with your approach, or who actively seek it out, are more likely to find their way into studios like yours, and students who are not interested in that aspect of music training are more likely to find their way into hers.

Interesting. Generally, it's parents who contact me; I do have a few HS students who self-selected, but oddly, they are in the "non-performers" group, and most of them came to me via students who were active in schools' jazz bands and stage production programs.