I wonder if I can get some inputs from both teachers and students on this forum on how often and where they have their recitals? And whether there are any who don't do/offer recitals at all (perhaps due to low teaching rates so you can't afford the costs, or due to being a private teacher and not having enough students, etc).

For teachers who organize recitals, I wonder if I can get some logistical information like the cost of renting a recital hall, what to look for in the venue, how early do you have to book it, how do you organize it, do you combine it with other local teachers to share cost, etc.

Thanks!

Local churches can be great venues, providing they have pianos that suit your needs. I have found that some churches will allow you to use their facility for free, in those cases, I offer to have their piano professionally tuned. As a professional, remember that you can deduct all recital costs on your tax returns.
Hosting an informal recital/piano party at a student's home is also good, I have found. Again, check out the piano first and I think offering to have it tuned is a nice thank-you gesture.
This spring, I plan to host a recital at my local Steinway store and for that they are charging a fee of $125.
Some local libraries/community centers have rooms with pianos that you can reserve for recitals. I have done this before, also, and while it only cost me $20 to reserve the room and use the piano, the piano was not in good condition the night of my program.

I totally respect those who hold studio recitals, but since you asked, I will tell you why I do not...

I, personally, think recitals have too much potential to cause psychological and emotional distress. In my experience both as a student and a teacher, I've seen more bad than good come out of the whole recital thing. When I have a student that seems to have a knack for or interest in performing, I encourage them and their parents to seek out performing opportunities at their school, church, etc. I also encourage them to play for guests at their homes. For the other students who like their lessons but only like playing in front of immediate family, I just don't force them to do more. I think it's a very personal thing whether you play the piano just for yourself or whether you are interested in performing for others.

A word of caution, though... I have lost a couple of students due to this policy. There were a couple of parents who were very demanding of their kids, and they really hated that I didn't force the kids to perform. In both cases, the parents pulled the kids from my studio to switch to a teacher who held recitals. Both kids quit within the year. Something to think about.

Just curious. What are your feeling about your students entering competitions?

As a parent, I strongly dislike recitals, except when they are organised with humour and when the talents of all the parents' little marvels are sacrificed to the spirit of a good time for all.

Like the time when the flute teacher and the viola teacher and two students did a comic act which finished with all four playing Bolero at the same time on a single viola !

A recital should be a blast instead of a sleepy pressure cooker.

landorrano... I like that!

Phlebas... I haven't entered any students into competitions either. If I had a high school age student who had the ability and desire to pursue the possibility of studying at the conservatory level, then I would float the idea to them and see how they felt about it. I would help them try it if they wanted to. It would be a good introduction to the competitive atmosphere of music school.

By that time it would likely be too late for that student. For most students, the ability to perform in public needs to be nurtured from a much earlier age. I say 'likely' because nothing is ever certain. I'm sure there are young people who step into their first competition at age 16 and blow the audience away. But I wouldn't count on it.

Hi Piano Dad... I respectfully disagree. I didn't say the student wouldn't be performing before that time. As I said in my first post above, I encourage my students who are so inclined to perform as much as possible from a very early age. It's just *competitions* that I do not think are necessary before high school. This is what I believe based on my years of experience as a student, performer, and teacher. I do not think competitions are ever mandatory for success in the music field.

EDIT: But, of course, I respect teachers who feel differently and can admit that some students might thrive on competitions. I just don't think they are a *prerequisite* for success.

Thank you for explaining.

I have two studio recitals per year, plus an adjudicated festival in the Fall (not public, one-on-one with me and the judge in the room) and an adjudicated festival in February (also private, but without me in the room.)

We have also done a holiday program at the hospital, several of my students have played in talent shows at their schools and churches, and one plays piano in her school jazz band.

Nobody is forced to play, but I do encourage it. I also have a couple of students who enter competitions.

Playing recitals is a lot like swimming. Throw a 9-year old into a pool unprepared and they're going to drown. Teach them to swim, start them off with floaties, and spend some time around water, and they'll take to it like a fish.

And now, Story Time:

10 years ago, I had a 5-year old student who had prepared William Gillock's "Puppy Dog" (Accent on Solos Bk. 1) for her first recital. She was a bright student who worked hard, but she was also quite young and quite shy. She was 4th on the program, and when her turn came, I turned around only to see the poor thing wrapped around her mother's leg in tears - terrified! The mother looked at me in horror, and you could hear a pin drop as an audience of 50 waited to see what would happen.

I walked up to her, took her by the hand, and said "come on, N, let's go play Puppy Dog..." We made our way to the piano, rather reluctantly, and I picked her up and set her on the piano bench. (She was too small to get up there by herself.) Then, I got a chair for myself and sat just to her right, same as in lessons, putting myself between her and the audience.

As in a lesson, I said "okay, let me hear Puppy Dog" and counted it off for her "1-2-1-2-3-4." She played, eyes the size of silver dollars, still terrified, but she was well-prepared, so she made it through with no problems whatsoever. The piece ended, and she returned her hands to her lap, still staring at the keyboard. I got up.

THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE.

I helped her off the bench and let her take a bow.

Then she took another bow. And one more, a huge smile growing on her face.

She ran back to her mother sporting and asked everyone within 10 feet "did you hear me play???" She spent the entire reception walking up to random strangers asking them "did you hear me play???" to which they responded "oh, yes, and you sounded lovely!"

So while recitals may have the potential to cause psychological and emotional distress, when handled well, they also have the potential to have great psychological and emotional benefits as well, and I think it's well worth the risk.

Great post, Kreisler. I think it just shows that there is room for lots of different opinions and methods when it comes to music. We all have different strengths and weaknesses and different personalities too. So, of course we have different styles and different ways of working. I loved your story.

My teacher has recitals 3-4 times a year...
I don't consider myself a performer, I always get super nervous, but I find that they're really helpful, both in preparing for exams and just getting a chance to perform. And it's also nice to watch other people play. The thing about recitals though, is that they're pretty expensive...

Terrific story, Kreisler. You handled that perfectly.

Thank you, Kreisler. I wept.

Kreisler,

I really liked the story of how a terrifying experience of the 5-year-old can be turned around.

I like the experience of playing in recitals because it can build up skills that may not necessarily be music-related: controlling nerves, presenting yourself well, knowing what it feels like to have all eyes and ears on you, being aware of surroundings even in a stressful situation, understanding that what may seem easy alone is difficult in front of a large audience.

For young students and teenagers, if handled well, it can prepare them for other endeavours. It also allows them to be sympathetic to someone else on stage.

The recitals I've attended have all been encouraging.

All of my beginner students start out in group piano classes. One of the benefits is that students get used to playing in front of each other from a very young age (I usually teach 6-10 in a class) and almost from the very beginning. When we have recitals (I do 2 per year), they are not stressful events with kids being terrified and not wanting to perform. My beginner recitals are class recitals with family members and friends (maybe a total of 25 people). After a year or so I enter them in our MTAC local branch recitals (a more traditional recital), and then we do Guild and Certificate of Merit.

I once received a private student who had transferred from a teacher known to be very strict and requiring near perfection of every piece (including every method piece learned). This student had studied with the teacher for 4 years and had NEVER participated in any recital; the teacher would only 'invite' certain students that she deemed worthy of including in a recital (this is what the parent told me). How sad.

Wow, thank you all for sharing your experiences and opinions on this. I learn a lot from what you share. Keep it coming!

Concerning Kreisler's story, it is cute, no doubt, and his reaction was tender.

However it seems to me that it was a traumatic event for the child, and not a positive experience.

I think it was more a learning experience where what was learned is:
1)You can confront a fearful situation, overcome your fear, and succeed.

2)Playing in front of people isn't as bad as facing te big bad wolf.

3) The work she did practicing and learning the piece stood her well in a performance situation.

My studio offers one formal recital opportunity for students in the school year; it is usually in June, and the expenses are recital hall rental, program printing, tux rental (for me), flowers, refreshments, awards, etc. These expenses are covered in the student's enrollment fee of $75 which they pay each Fall.

No student is forced to participate, and there is usually one student in twenty who, for what ever reason, wants to withdraw from the chance to play.

In addition, our community music teachers association offers three community recitals: Autumn Harvest, Sonatina Festival, Pop/Jazz/Duet Fest in Oct, Feb, and May respectively. These are inexpensive events, $5 each to perform.

My studio has a monthly "For Pianists Only" group lesson where students play for each other, as well as other activities. There are 10 of these through the year.

Finally, the students do National Piano Playing Auditions offered by the National Guild of Piano Teachers in late May. For this, they need to perform repertoire before an adjudicator. Repertoire, 4 to 15 pieces, must be played from memory.

Volusiano, you may be asking "Why so much?" I learned as a student that performing was awkward, could be frightening, etc., all the usual answers you get. My parents were nit-pickers, which didn't help one iota, and you better believe that some of your students "enjoy" nit-picking parents as well. And my teacher had one grand recital a year. You had better be perfect, period. Talk about performance anxiety.

I believe learning to cope with presentations in public is a skill, for most of us, which has to be learned and practiced. Some of us are natural show-offs, students with overly large egos, etc., who don't need this preparation, but if we want to develop all of our students, we need to spend time helping them overcome anxieties.

The best way, I believe, is excellent foundation and preparation, so the student has confidence that they can do well, and frequency, so that they get used to the spot light. Many will never become totally comfortable on the stage, and that's alright. As adults, however, these students will shine in their respective professions, as they will be able to "present" polished subject matter, whether a business proposal, a college lecture, or what ever.

By the way, it took me years to get to this way of thinking. As a young teacher, I did the usual once a year recital, but then, I began trying to analyze why some students excel and others always had an overdose of anxiety. As a result, my studio evolved to it's current practice.

Hope you find something useful in all this.

John

Subjectively on recitals: Everyone is in the same shoes, excitement and trepidation, others as you are so you are not alone. Audience is family and friends, rallying not only for their own, but everyone, aware of what has gone into this moment. Afterward we mingle, share stories, as parents or students or both. A recital is not a performance so perfection is not expected; it is a chance to experience and learn this. There is mutual support, a safe place, and of understanding. This is not just student to student, or parents/friends to student, but also parent to parent. Otherwise we are all in isolation, going through this individually. Our teacher sees performance as a reward, so perhaps he influences us to do likewise through his attitude.

If you take this away from us, then we are forced to create our own event, and experience it in isolation, among people who may not understand. Playing for family and friends is more difficult, because it is intimate, and one can feel one is imposing on others' goodwill when still a beginner. I was not comfortable doing so until after a few recitals. If I had a teacher who did not do recitals, I'd want to get together with some of the students and organize something on our own so that this group support could be there. Of course at that point we'd have a recital minus the teacher, which seems silly.

The two parents that went to another teacher who gave recitals, and the students then both quit music - they were pushy. "Ambition rears its ugly head." as someone used to say. If recitals are for showing off, pressures of perfection to put the student and/or teacher in a good light, then I can see how they can be traumatic. But does it have to be that kind of attitude? Can it not be doing your best, being well prepared, in the same way that you put on your best clothes, cook good meals, and decorate the house for Christmas?

Thanks, Keystring, for the reminder.

I reintroduced a studio Christmas recital this year, something I abandoned about 8 years ago, and it was a wild success. Parents were buzzing, students were jubilant. Because the wife & I had a trip to visit daughter and grand-children immediately afterward, I hadn't reflected on events very much. Now I need to spend some time analyzing the reasons why and what I can do to capture that for other events.

Perhaps you missed the part where she was all smiles and extremely excited and proud of her accomplishment when it was over?

Kreisler: Beautiful story!

More stories and opinions coming on:

* When I was much younger (lets say 10 or so) I would refuse to take part in ANY concert whatsoever. Had no trourble with anxiety (never do really), nor problems with memory, or with the exams. I just didn't feel I was proud of myself (I was NOt progressing for A LOT OF years, due to a 'bad' teacher). So I refused.

When I entered high school (lets say 15) I had a chance to play some music in my high school, choosen by me. I picked an easy Lyric piece from Grieg and a Sonatina from Beethoven (G major, don't recall op number right now). I loved it, because I felt proud of doing it alone.

From there on I try to get as much opportunities to play in public as possible!

* Now I have a couple of students, sisters. They changed from their old teacher last Xmas, so we've been together for something more than a year. They love my lessons.

So I proposed to have a mini concert for their family, friends, etc (nothing too big). the older one, 14 year old was pretty fine and is struggling with the D minor Fantasy of Mozart. The younger one, however, seems to have a few 'issues' (phychological).

She's been used to been perfect in school, which has led to a certain shiness (being afraid of err). And I tried to bring as much officiality (normal concerts, recitals, bowing, etc) in our last lesson as possible. Usually lessons are huge fun for all of us, full of jokes, silly things, I play computer game tunes, bring some comic books, DVDs, take them to concert (with their parents of course), etc. But the last concert I went dead serious!

So older one coped fine, but the younger one didn't! She didn't break down, but couldn't stop laughing (nervous laugh) to the point that I stopped the lesson for a full 10 minutes, until she would over come it. We were alone in the room of course, but I put her through a simulation of doing a full recital and she crumbled under the pressure.

But she managed, after the 10 minute break. She played fine and she's ready for the concert. We still have a lesson between now and the concert, so I'll double check, but thing is that once we finished I got to her parents and kinda 'pushed' her to brag about what she did, almost overdoing it a little, that she did exactly like a normal concert and she did great, and so on. Leaving of her house she was VERY proud of herself and clear that she did manage to overcome here fear!

_________________________

Concerts and student recitals can have a great benefit, as well as problematic results, if not handled correctly I say. But if everyone handles things like Kreisler did, there shouldn't be "any" problem really!

By the way, I should say that while I believe in my approach 100%, I also believe 100% that there need to be teachers like RachelJ in the world as well.

I think the piano teaching community needs to strive for diversity in approaches and styles. I think every teacher needs to have a passionate belief in their approach. Together, we serve a diverse public with diverse needs, and there's room enough for all of us.

Obviously, my teaching style is a little closer to John's than Rachel's or Edward's (Weiss), but the world needs Rachels and Edwards just as badly as it needs Jasons and Johns. In every way that matters, we are on the same team, after all!

GO TEAM PIANO!

I would suggest that a recital is seen as a different function by different people.

I see it as a seminal event, in common with many educational experiences. It forces you on a periodic basis to prepare at a higher level - like a college term paper, perhaps, or maybe a thesis or a licensing exam. I observe that this kind of requirement elicits a higher level of focus and performance than a class without it.

Others see it as a learning experience for the purpose of either learning to perform, or learning to cope with performance anxiety.

Or, it can be a rewarding performance opportunity - distinct from a purely pedagogical event.

The presence of an audience tends to blur the boundaries.

In my very inexpert opinion, most people should benefit from the seminal event approach. Most people should be finding performance activities less artificial and more rewarding than a recital (whether or not they do recitals). And whether a person needs the anxiety coping training would be very individual.

My sentiments exactly, Kreisler, thanks. We all have to be true to ourselves as teachers, and the students and teachers that are right for each other will gravitate towards each other. It would be as crazy for a teacher to think they were perfect for every student as it would be for a student to think that any teacher would be equally effective for them.

I'm not sure I fully understand the the actual difference here. Rachael states that while she doesn't host the recitals, she encourages students who show an inclination to seek out performance opportunities; Kreisler & I (and many others) host recitals, but don't force students to participate. I've never given students an ultimatum, but many students are anxious about the unknown, once they try something, they often find, "Hey, this isn't so bad." And some, like Kreisler's young lady, actually have a sea change in attitude.

The difference, at least in part, would seem to be that you and Kreisler create a performance culture, whereas Rachel does not. This is not a judgment between the approaches, but a description based on what I have read here.

Sure, you do not force anyone to perform, but the culture of performance seems to pervade your whole approach to music. This will lead to self-selection. Students who are comfortable with your approach, or who actively seek it out, are more likely to find their way into studios like yours, and students who are not interested in that aspect of music training are more likely to find their way into hers.

Interesting. Generally, it's parents who contact me; I do have a few HS students who self-selected, but oddly, they are in the "non-performers" group, and most of them came to me via students who were active in schools' jazz bands and stage production programs.

There was a young lady in the Cliburn last year who had never before participated in a competition.

I do recitals twice a year, a winter one and a summer one (done in June before school lets out).

As for halls, churches can be great, and often free or cheap, as well as community halls (Knights of Columbus, Lion's Club...) which as also usually free or by donation...

I have rented other community halls and concert halls before though and they are anywhere from 100$-500$.... which is a bit too much for me and my students to afford.

We used to have our concerts for free but it was too hard to keep up with hall costs, food, programs etc, so now i charge 1-2$ per ticket, and the parents don't seem to mind at all and everyone has a great time

Piano*Dad mentioned "performance culture" and I gave that a thought as it certainly can exist to plan a recital that has a great outcome for all.

Part of that "cultivating" for me is:

Making sure that positive things are emphasized during the recital with humor and goodwill focusing on the idea that we are here to enjoy the music and the composers and that we are a supportive and encouraging audience to all performers.

a good social time afterwards with refreshments where the merits and pleasure of the recital are enjoyed in conversation and congratulations given to all performers by mingling together. If my students expect to receive compliments, they know they have to first give a sincere compliment to another student as my philosophy is that "what goes around, comes around, and someone has to set it into motion." Giving good compliments is part of the "requirement" for anyone in the room at this event. And I often publically say this as we move to begin the social time.

If there aren't smiles, fun and laughter before, during and after a recital, I feel I have let every one down and missed the mark of what I think a recital of piano students is all about.

Moving toward formal recitals or competitions at the advanced level of performance, the focus will be more serious with the presentations. In these events someone else is the sponsor or host and students represent many piano teachers.

In any event I host, my requirements are that we be positive and enjoy ourselves because I consider the students and the audience to be our mutual musical family members in attendance. I think having a "family" like this is worthy of our celebration.

Betty Patnude

Why do I get the strong sense that you either do not understand probability and statistics, or that you simply choose to ignore it when convenient.

I think the poster was just pointing out an interesting fact, Piano-Dad.

I can't take credit though. I have a lot of parent support as well.

Something I've noticed in my teaching over the years is that students tend to adopt the same attitudes towards life as their parents. If you work with parents who are wary and fearful of performances, then the students will be likely be wary and fearful of performances.

I'm incredibly lucky in that Iowa City has as its three largest employers the university hospital, the university, and the ACT. (And most of my students parents work in education or healthcare.) The community here understands the rigors of academic and medical training, and they bring that same focus and attitude to piano study. In my situation, TimR's "seminal event" concept is spot on.

+1

It is my opinion that recitals are worth every single minute spent toward the planning and conducting of them that a recital demands of the piano teacher.

However, they are getting more expensive to hold in my community and the decision I make will be to charge a higher registration fee rather than to have a ticketed event. In the meantime, we had a perfectly delightful "Christmas Piano Party) a few weeks ago in a grandparent's living room on a beautiful grand piano. It was a great occasion in every way and the fun and laughter flowed even moreso in this environment with our musical family members.

Recitals do not have to be something to dread or abhor. They can be refreshing and optimistic for the future. Of the most frequent comments I hear from parents about their children or other people's children is about the progress noticed from one recital to the next. I think that is a valuable reason to have recitals all by itself.

Betty Patnude

Statistically speaking, she didn't get more eliminated than Kunz or the other competition hoppers.

Speaking as a student, I was never given the option of NOT participating in a recital. The only times I missed them were due to illness or conflicting school exams. I was also required to play from memory for all of them. Did I enjoy them? More often than not, no. But I recognize that without recitals, festivals, and exams, I would probably have put in a lot less practice over the years and maybe I wouldn't even be playing today. There are a lot of things in life that are good for us but we might not like them. If a child hates eating all vegetables, would you view that as an acceptable reason to never give them any? What happens when they grow up and get nervous for job interviews? Never apply for a job?

Are you really this ignorant of the use and misuse of statistics, or are you just stirring the pot a bit as usual? Generalizing from one example ... statistically speaking.

Great Post!!!!! That was perfect!

I can't remember who said it, but I always liked this basketball quote:

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."

I think it was Wayne Gretzky. Whoever said it captured the wisdom quite well.

I am ignorant of the one and the other ...

In any case, Piano*Dad, I was only pointing out an interesting fact. And I do believe that it is an interesting fact. I don't believe that competitions are the only road towards a pianistic carreer, and they are not the only proof of accomplishment. I do not even believe that competition is the only road to ... competition.

Apparently for you my little fact is statistically irrelevant. So be it.

I'd like to recount an anecdote concerning recitals.

I recently went to a saxophone recital. It wasn't so bad, could have been worse, but ... but ... but then it got interesting: The dozen or so players, ranging in age from around 8 to 16, did the "Ikea goblet shuffle".

They all got down on their knees in a line, facing the audience. To the right the first kid had a stack of different colored plastic cups from Ikea. He took a cup and started tapping out a rhythm on the floor with it, and then passed in on to the next kid, who added his rhythm while the first kid took another cup and repeated his. And so on until all of the cups had passed down the line and once again formed a stack. The rhythm had started, built up in intensity as more and more kids had cups in their hand, and then went "diminuendo" as the cups ran out and left fewer kids beating.

Well, all of the kids in the audience, who were there more or mess by obligation, all of a sudden they all woke up and started climing over each other to see what was going on.

The saxophonists were all red in the face from exhilaration.

As somebody said earlier on in the thread:

I have been to one of those recitals...too bad I was the one with the problem. My piano teacher from about 6 years ago held an annual recital at one of the local churches. I was one of the more "experienced" players, but have a very weak memory. She wanted me to play "Variations on Cannon in D" from the Alfred Series...from memory. I worked on it, but had a hard time memorizing it. When I had to go up on stage and perform it, I got through the theme, but could not remember the rest of it, and just had to give up. Talk about causing stress!

For quite a while, I didn't want to play the piano anymore, but we moved, and I got a new teacher. This new teacher didn't have recitals, but as she was the choir director, she would have her high school students accompany the middle school choirs, with music. This helped tremendously, because the audience (at least you thought) was paying attention to their kids, not to the pianist, so a lot of the pressure was relieved. The only problem with this approach was that instead of piano repertoire, you learned choir repertoire.

Despite my traumatic recital experience, I am a music ed. student with an emphasis in Piano, and loving it!

I have two recitals a year as well. A week before each recital, I have a student-only workshop in my house. I believe in recitals - I think they are a great goal for kids. They have a real sense of accomplishment and I positive reinforcement. They get to hear other kids play, see what music they like, etc....
There is a retirement center in town with an excellent grand piano in a performance hall, and they don't charge for recitals. I'm lucky!

Now getting prepared for recitals........that's another thing! And another topic.

I think this points out that my use of the term artificial was inaccurate. But there is still a distinction between this type of performance and what I am more accustomed to think of as performance culture.

It is the direction of focus.

A recital is the occasion for the performer to show off, to demonstrate they have mastered the art of solo performing, to force them to learn skills and coping strategies. In other words, it's all about the student. It can be valuable as such.

A performance is the occasion for the player to please the audience. The focus cannot be on the player. To the extent that it is, the player's ego interferes with doing the job. It's all about the listener. If not, player and teacher have failed. This is true, I think whether the music is shallow or profound, whether the audience is inattentive or engaged (the two axes suggested in Music through the Eyes of Faith.)

A recital could incorporate aspects of this type of performance, I suppose. I haven't heard here that people approach it this way. For some people, simply changing that mental focus can greatly reduce performance anxiety; but that clearly isn't universal.

Those saxophone cups were a crowd pleaser, right? Not a performer ego booster. Direction of focus.

Or, I could be all wet. 50/50 chance!

Glad you brought this up. We've discussed it before, but I don't recall the outcome.

My feeling is that your memory is as good as mine or anyone else's. After all you have no trouble remembering your name, your birthday, how to eat with a fork, the words to Happy Birthday, etc. I'll bet you can find your way home from work everyday without a map, too! In other words, you're memory is just fine for things which are really important to you.

So then, as music seems important to you as well, are you having trouble with musical memory? In part, it may be because you do not understand what is happening, so while you love music, you're essentially trying to memorize pi to 1,000 places. The things that you remember well, you have context for.

One reason teachers analyze music for students is so the student can begin to see the structure. Oh, this is a theme and variation, or this is A-B-A&coda stucture, and there is a modulation here and here. When you begin to grasp the structure, the piece suddenly unfolds before you and remembering it is far easier.

John

Tim, interesting observations. Now, I'm going to have to think about this for a while. Thanks.

When you start giving the students the "choice" of whether to play in a recital then I think you are sending out a message that makes them think, "trouble ahead"!

For recitals anyways, I have to be the stage manager! Someone has to make the show look great to those attending and who else will do that if not me!!!

After years of holding my breath at recitals, I finally had to take charge and make it work for everyone. And recitals are getting better and better for my students! And here's the reason why I think!

I have been giving each student pieces that they are excited about and are easy for them to play. You and I know there are pieces that are a bear-cat to play. Hard as heck. Then add that to shaky fingers! . . . and it's a trainwreck ready to happen!

Last year, one student had only part of Malaguena by Lecuona, done. He wanted to play the 3 or 4 pages he had done, and well, why not. The audience wouldn't know the difference anyway (okay, maybe one in the 100 would), but so why not play what he had! Not a great idea, but this year he has it done. Another student, a boy, just loved playing Lara's Theme from Doctor Zhivago (kind of a girly piece), but HE loved it. Not as difficult a piece as I would have like him to have played, but he liked it, so why not! Go play it! Another student was doing some exam pieces, but she had just learned them, and not as familiar as other pieces she like playing. So we chose others that were easy for her to play and were not as technically difficult. Would have rather had the exam pieces in but, so what, we didn't. Another student wants just to impress people, but he can't handle playing a difficult fast pieces because he gets too nervous at recitals. He just can't. So he gets slow pieces. He can handle slow but not fast! (and even though his mother wants him to play a fast piece to impress those listening too it ain't happening!)

A lot of the time if we teachers brag on each student on that student's strengths, and explain that they do REALLY play a piece so well, that the audience will just "love" hearing them play it, and make them believe that they will look like a genius! They will believe us and be excited to play it! But they have to know we are totally honest!

They also have to know that I will "never" make them play a piece that will make them look like an idiot or that they can't play well because it really is my job to make them SHINE at the recital!

Ah, Malaguena, I remember it well. A great recital piece.



Watch out. You may get tagged as a child abuser.

I remember with great fondness Malaguena. I just loved this as a HS student. Ended up getting the entire suite and learning them all.

Good luck with your wayward student.

Well, this year he has it all done! And. . . he also just finished all of Maple Leaf Rag! The original Joplin's!

Did I mention he has a hand stretch of a "13th! I can reach a "13th" . . . if I use both hands!

Ah... Malaguena! I'm actually Cuban, and grew up knowing the piece. When I was 11 or so, I brought a copy of the music to a piano lesson and begged my teacher to let me play it. She was totally flabbergasted that I 1) knew about it, and 2) liked it! I guess it was really popular in her youth in the 1930's and she couldn't believe I brought it to her.

Something here has bothered me a bit, especially since I was the one to bring up positive experiences in recitals:

Two ways or categorizing:

Recitals: John, Jason
No recitals: Edward, Rachel

Classical, Reading: John, Jason, Rachel
New Age, By Ear: Edward

Is teaching style defined primarily by whether or not a teacher gives recitals? Are recitals (necessarily) the goal of teaching? As a student choosing a teacher, the goal of the teacher is important which is why I'm looking at this.

If I (or child) were taking lessons with an aim of being a classical musician (which seems the thrust of this thread), whether professional or not, then I need certain things. I might eventually perform, or compose, or improvise, or just play, or do any combination of those things.

Once I have finished lessons, I want to be able to play pieces independently. I will need to have skills in playing = technique, and know how to read and develop new pieces on my own = approach, understanding of music. So what I need from a teacher is technique, approach, and musicianship. If I have these things, then I am also able to perform. If I don't have them, I also can't perform. For example, if a teacher just grooms me to perform a particular piece, and I win a contest, and then the next and the next, will this prepare me for preparing and performing my own pieces?

Doesn't it make sense that performance (recitals) is part of what a teacher may do to form a student, rather than the thing?

I have not studied with any of the four teachers, so I can't say how they fit with each other. I'm just wondering whether categorizing teaching style (approach) should be done according to whether they give recitals.

Not me.

I want to be able to satisfy an audience.

I think we'd agree the bulk of piano study is meant to fulfill a parent's theory that a musical foundation is part of a rounded education. (that was my theory when I sent my kids to lessons)

But some fraction of students go on to become either recital specialists in the classical or popular fields, or working (includes amateur) musicians in the classical or popular fields. The difference is not in the field, but in whether the primary driver is the need of the musician or the need of the listener - it's just an accident that this sometimes also splits as classical vs popular.

The rate structure for piano lessons is the same, but really shouldn't be. If I were teaching popular piano, I wouldn't charge for lessons. I'd get my students gigs, and take a percentage.

TimR, I think that you missed what I was actually trying to say. The main point of my message is that when I have finished having lessons, I want to have the skills and knowledge that will enable me to prepare a piece. Therefore I must have technique as well as musicianship (understanding music, how to approach it) as well as approach. I must be given the tools. I am juxtaposing this to, for example, lessons that prepare me to play a particular piece that will wow judges and let me win a contest, where the teacher does the preparing and choreography, but I do not develop the skills to play any piece.

If I want to satisfy an audience, I must have skills and understanding at my disposal, so that I actually know how to prepare my music and be able to play it.


That's what I have learned on PW. It had not crossed my mind.


I'm not catching, "need of listener".

Tim, I don't think that it is so simple. It was certainly a crowd pleaser, but I don't suppose that it was conceived as such. I think that it was a serious musical exercise. And I don't mean exercise in the Hanon sense, quite the contrary: it was designed to draw these young guys and girls out of themselves and into the music ... and in turn they entrained the audience, expecially the youngsters who were fascinated and also, I think, jealous.

Yes, I think you're mostly correct.

I do think it shows an appreciation and sensitivity for what will please an audience that we often miss; in fact, don't even think to look for.

But your point is well taken.