I have a small studio, eight students, from beginners to middle schoolers playing level 4 pieces. Two of my students are sisters. One is 11 and very accomplished.

Her sister is 8 and her lessons are very difficult. I struggle to get her to work at all. She endlessly pouts, gets mad, and stalls for time in every imaginable way. I feel like it's my job to be patient with her and keep working with her, and I do my best to encourage her and keep her on task but it's incredibly slow and frustrating work. If we get through one primer piece in a half hour lesson that's a good day. She often

Her parents love how patient I am and often make comments like "I certainly couldn't put up with that." It's got to the point where her mom will come and sit by the piano and basically threaten her with discipline into playing anything at all.

It's heartbreaking. This kiddo clearly doesn't want to play piano. I feel like because they're paying me, and because they clearly think it's a worthwhile thing and I'm doing a good job even though it's obviously painful for the kid, that I should just do my best. I don't want them to think I'm questioning their parenting. But it's also pretty pointless and I can't handle a child crying at the piano because her mom is forcing her to play and trying to maintain a positive, encouraging manner in the face of that!

Any advice on how to handle this situation?

Thanks,
Mr. K

Congratulations on your patience.

I think the first thing you need to do is get rid of Mom. You are being pulled into a power struggle between them, and don't need to be.

Then I would be honest with the kid. Acknowledge that she doesn't want to be there, but that is between her and her mom, and you have no interest in being part of the battle. Since she is there, you both may as well make the best of it.

Ask her what kind of music she likes. Ask her to bring her ipod to lessons, if she has one, so you can see what kinds of music she listens to. Ask her about her favorite movies, and check out the sound tracts.

Adjust your goals. She isn't going to be a concert pianist, probably, but maybe you can teach her to love music.

Do what you can do to remove competition between her and her sister. Different method books or pieces, different teaching approach, different markers of success.

Talk to her mom about setting a time limit. Kid participates happily for 6 months and then reevaluates, and has the option of stopping. Six months without conflict might make all the difference.

On your side - the kid isn't enjoying this any more than you are, and may welcome help. She is only 8 - she doesn't know how to fix this.

Do the parents play piano?
What is practicing like at home?
Are you ever alone with the student-- what does she say to you?

I am a mom of two 8 year olds who have had different struggles getting started with music. We are very glad we've stuck with it but have had to try some adjustments along the way.

I agree that the primary goal is for the student to enjoy music. It's a lifelong gift you can give. It seems that every kid can enjoy music somehow, maybe not in the "standard" way.

Lollipop, I like your answer.

I sometimes resort to massaging the student's ego or using reverse psychology. Something on the order of, "You seem like a really intelligent girl. So I am curious, what do you get out of not doing school assignments or fighting with teachers? Does it make you smarter? Does it give you back the time you've spent? Does it give you more time to (fill in the blank)? Do you think it hurts your parents if you act dumb? Most really super-smart people I know, when they have to do something they don't like, do it first and get it done. Are you as smart as I think you are?"

I use that a lot when working with a student on a piece they may not be practicing. "You know this isn't going to go away anytime soon unless you actually just do the work. This could be done next week, if you really wanted it to be."

I really like Lollipop's posting!

The problem does need to be addressed, Mr. K.

Come up with a strategy of what to say and how to say it to her.

Her attitude and behavior does not reflect having a positive "profile" for an in-coming piano student. Often, I have seen hostility between sibling over who is the better player, and being she is a beginner and sabotaging herself, perhaps the problem is between how she sees herself at a disadvantage compared to older sister.

If you can identify her "position" as to why she won't allow piano lessons to work, you could help her resolve the negatives and find some positives. I "won't" is very strong opposition. I "can't" is open to viewpoint. I can't because.....

Patience on the outside that the student and parent sees is often the opposite of what the piano teacher is really thinking inside: am I right? We can get in a dither with some students behavior, attitudes and lack of trying at the lesson....so we know they are certainly not practicing at home.

I am in complete sympathy with you and urge you to take care of your own needs of expressing what needs to be expressed to represent your point of view.

And, please let us know how it's going in the week's to come.

Betty Patnude

Tough situation, to teach an 8 year old who doesn't want to take lessons or play the piano in the first place.

Asking mom to stay out of the studio during lessons and removing the competition factor with the older sibling could certainly change the whole scenario. This was posted earlier. Then give it 6 months to a year and see what happens. The child might really come to love music and the piano with these 2 above factors dealt with.
Keep in communication with her mom away from lesson time. Let your voice be heard. Keep a journal of your thoughts on this student and her progress every week.
Re-evaluate the situation after 6 months.

Has anybody wondered what is happening at home? You have an older child who is advanced and doing very well, with mother probably pleased, a younger child who is not doing well, with mother displeased. Both of them have to play the same piano in the same room, the younger one obviously playing worse and always inferior and maybe always displeasing. I would find that unpleasant at any age. How does this part work? I'm seriously wondering.

Thats a good point, keystring.

Ah, Lollipop--- that is kind of brilliant. Your plan could go a long way to turning things around--- and not just how she feels about piano lessons, but about learning as well. My only caveat would be that some teachers don't like to have a child that young alone in the studio, but at least the parent could go out of earshot or something.

Keystring is dead-on, though: people have certain roles within the family (like good kid, bad kid, achieving kid, slacker kid etc.), and there's resistance to destabilizing these balances, often completely unconscious; often completely contrary to what they say. It may require an end game, vast tactfulness, the power of suggestion, and a very deliberate pace.

I'll bet that somewhere underneath the family dynamic, this kid does like music in some way... if you can find it. I'm really crossing my fingers and sending out a good thought for both of you on this one.

Thank you everyone for your responses to my problem. Lollipop, your post especially was great food for thought.

I talked to the mom this week, and it made me sure that the younger sister feels overshadowed by the rest of her family. Both parents are accomplished musicians, well-known in our city for their talents, and her older sister is a very gifted pianist. So I think this poor kiddo has pretty unrealistic expectations to live up to. I tried to suggest, gently, that the younger sister was the norm and that the older sister is exceptional, but I don't know how much that helps.

The good news is that, as Lollipop suggested, I now know her pop music tastes and will find/arrange some of those songs for her. Even better is the news that she got a 3/4 sized guitar for Christmas and wants to learn it. I know how to play, and so half of her music lessons will now be guitar. She's very excited about that and it's something that no one else in the family does. I'm very excited that she can have fun with music somehow that perhaps won't trigger her family dynamic.

The final bit of good news is that I just moved my teaching to my home studio. The room I teach in is small and it will provide the perfect excuse to have the sisters one-on-one during their lessons, with the other sister and parent outside in the hall. So I won't have the power struggle happening, hopefully, and I have some fun hooks for the younger sister (some synths, a vocoder, and some guitar equipment that she'll love).

Thank you again, everyone. Your responses helped me to zero in on the problems, and gave me some great advice for moving forward. I'm so glad I found this forum.

Mr. K

This is perfect! I was coming back on to suggest that she might try a different instrument from her sister.

My children have different strengths, and music learning comes easier to one than the other. From the beginning I planned on different instruments (as it turns out one requested violin so that made it easy). They don't compete with each other at all as learning violin and learning piano are hard to compare! I don't think either one feels "better" or "worse" than the other with music, even though they do tend to compete a bit with school issues in general.

I'm late to the discussion, but I think that having a child cry in the lesson - because they are taking piano lessons - is a good sign that they shouldn't be there at all.

Besides anything else, piano teachers shouldn't be working towards getting gold stars in patience. If the child is not happy taking lessons then the teacher most certainly won't be happy giving them. Lose-lose. I think that the line "I know you don't want to be here, but we must both just make the best of it" only works within the most limited time-frame - such as agreeing that the student will have lessons until the end of the semester, or some similar arrangement. If the child cannot see that they will ever be free of this nightmare, you as a teacher are not in for a happy experience.

On the other hand, sometimes the child is thrilled to have one-on-one time with an adult who is actually on their side, and if they know that they will be unconditionally accepted regardless of their interest in piano they may well open up regarding their genuine musical interests (if they have any)..... But parents often don't wish to pay piano teachers for what is effectively counselling instead of keyboard tuition - but then again, often they do!!