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Oh, just a take-off on something Rick Clark said in another place...

As a consumer, are you:

A)less likely

C)don't give a rolling red rat's rectum

..to buy a piano or piano line that Larry Fine likes?

I may be blowin' smoke here, but in the Piano Book, aren't the recommendations (and criticisms) the result of a survey that he did of techs who have checked out the piano? Not sure about the supplements, though, they may be just his opinion.

I would say it influenced my opinions. I read his book carefully, nay, compulsively while shopping. I chose the M&H over other pianos he ranked higher, so it wasn't the sole determinant. But I'm sure his high regard made me more favorably disposed to it in the first place and induced me to try it out.

I'd say "more likely" unless he has forgone the assemblage (is that a word??) of leaning the heaviest on technician advice in his publications. If he's forgone the "assemblage" then I'd be inclined to say "don't give a rolling red rat's numb chucks".

I think the value in the book for me was in seeing all of the buyers tips. The book taught me about inspecting a piano in detail, and understanding the mechanics.

Also equally important, it outlines the marketing approach of the piano industry.

As to specific pianos? I used it as a basic guide, but ultimatly, it is impossible to keep in print an up to date guide to the entry level and Asian pianos, things are changing so rapidly.

As a non-playing newbie to both piano buying and ownership, I think the Fine book serves an important role as a baseline. I tend to be very analytical during purchases (numbers versus feeling), and the fine book gave me a good baseline to start. I used the book several times to lookup things like Kawai vs. Yamaha vs. Boston, and the relative quality of various brands.

I tempered much of what he said with these boards. Every other post here is "am I getting a good deal" or "is this a good piano"? That was useful, as was the search ability here.

The most valuable thing to me about the fine book was the supplement. I purchased the supplement hoping to understand retail versus street pricing, and I feel the guide helped me with that. For my $15 investment in the supplement, I was able to negotiate nearly $1,000 off of a brand that in my area, from my dealer, is non-negotiable.

In the end, I bought the one that sounded the best to me. The Fine book, and this forum, both made me more comfortable that it was a good decision at a fair price. My ears told me it was the right decision.

Any pianist can figure out if they like the touch and tone of a piano. The real value in Fine's book, to me, is in the predicted reliability and technical assessments: construction, materials, fit and finish things that a typical buyer may not have the skills to assess.

For example, Fine's groups make it easy to see that if you're shopping for a piano for a church or rehearsal room, you need something sturdier than the lowest group.

--Cy--

Exactly, Cy.

Basically, the context that exists....NAMM is currently underway, and as some of you know Rick is called in to prep some of the pianos. Rodger Jolly has done stuff like this in the past...some of the techs who post on this board have done NAMM's.

But piano techs prep pianos the way they believe is "best". That "best" may differ in tone or touch from another tech. Not saying one is better than the other, just different.

Along comes Larry Fine to the booth, to kick the tires and try out a few pianos. If Larry likes what you've done, it can give the line a better billing in the next supplement. If he doesn't, the piano may remain the same, or even fall - all based on what Fine likes.

It's the old subjective rater thing, but boiled down to a single defining event, possibly even a couple of defining instruments.

I would think he wouldn't judge a brand or model on the basis of the voicing or regulation of one sample. However, if he noticed that the design, materials, or workmanship were deficient it would raise questions.

Larry Fine provided a good service by telling people how pianos work, what problems to look for and some historical data on piano companies that is interesting.

In my opinion, the piano ratings are pretty much useless. His ratings mean nothing to me and are, after all, only one man's ratings.

He collected surveys from technicians about their experiences with pianos in the field. That gives me information I could not obtain on my own.

I can evaluate the touch and tone of a new piano. How could I know, on my own, that a model or brand of piano has pinblock problems unless I buy it and cross my fingers. (I'm not naming names, but we've got a warranty replacement coming soon.) The biggest problem is the lack of timeliness, especially without a fifth edition, plus a certain understandable reluctance to say that manufacturer X has durability problems.

I really liked the Larry Fine book and valued his opinion on pianos. We just bought an Estonia and are very happy. We were very interested in other pianos, both new and reconditioned. I read the entire book and bought the update. As a hands on general contractor who has custom built cabinets, entire buildings, sprayed lacquer and been hired as an expert for building structure failure studies I felt the book is solid information.
The information that can be gained from the book helps in choosing between a piano that sounds good now to one that will most likely sound good later (many years). I would recommend reading everything Larry Fine has to say, balancing it with the pianoworld members views and as everyone else says play alot of pianos.

I wasted many years trying to help people make better choices about their home purchasing, remodeling, and repairing decisions. People don't want to hear what they don't want to hear. Almost all of these people lost a great deal of money. You need to be a smart as you can be. larry Fine is a solid way to begin your purchase.

I read the book from Larry Fine and then I go the NAMM and buy a Chinees piano(grand).
Why? For the excellent sound and the very friendly price.
And there are a lot of people at the NAMM who's changed their opinion about Chinees pianos.
I am the owner of a Perzina grand.I am very happy and my friends too.

Claire

I did not read the book since we bought a GB1. We did not want to spend over $8k for a piano and did not care to buy a Chinese made stencil. Too much confusion and mis representation there. It came down between Pearl River and Yamaha. Pearl River looked better. Yamaha sounded better.

I believe Chinese pianos are really good pianos for the money especially. but I do not believe I would pay for a former premium brand that is made in the same factory as other former premium brands. Pramburger is a perfect example. Its not the same Pramburger as when Mr. Pramburger was alive.

I didn't and don't find the Larry Fine books very helpful. I'd prefer to talk to people, as on this forum, with actual experience with the pianos. It is clear in his book that he personally knows a lot about some brands and very little about others. The opinions of techs are useless unless I know who the tech is doing the talking. That is like saying "a lot of musicians like this piano". Who are those musicians? That would make a difference whether I take the comment seriously.

In regards to the price supplement, I was disappointed. Saying you can get 10 to 30 percent off, say, a $116K piano is not a very helpful tip.

I learned a lot from Fine's book. When he praised the Kawai carbon action I played some of them. Then I bought one. I preferred its tone to that of the European pianos in the same room, which surprised me.

I have no idea what this post means. Can you elaborate Andy?

Pianistique,
All your posts (5 in total) advertise Perzina. Do you sell them?

Rich