I simply must upgrade from my non-weighted keyboard, as just about everyone here can agree. I was all ready to save up the $600ish for a new Yamaha P-85. This would mean holding off several weeks to get the finances all jolly (grad student here -- I'm not exactly rolling in it). Then I notice that Musician's Friend is expecting to get in some factory restock of the P-85, which they're selling for $429. At that price, I can order it when they get it in, at the end of this month.

What a bargain. So does anyone have any tales of horror or, better yet, tales of joy with regard to factory restocks (particularly, if it matters, from Musician's Friend)? I'm not really going to care if the body is scuffed or if there's a scratch or two, but I always feel leery about ordering used goods unseen...

B Stock is usually OK, but make sure you get some sort of warranty - even if only for 30 days.

Musician's Friend standard 45-day satisfaction guarantee etc. etc. includes their restock as well, so I would be able to return it if there were a problem.


Also, this text suggests that some portion of Yamaha's original warranty still may apply, though it's sort of vague about it:


But 45 days should be plenty of time for me to mess around with it and for my (far more knowledgeable) fiancée to give it the all clear.

First, if you're a struggling grad
student, I would recommend staying
with your unweighted keyboard.
It is not uncommon for people
to take several yrs. of classical
lessons on a 61-key unweighted
portable, with no real problem.
They can adjust to the acoustic
piano in their teacher's studio
with little trouble. Note that
the piano J. S. Bach used
was a clunky 49-key one, with
nothing like the grand piano
voice that you find on even the
least expensive 61-key portables
today. With 61 keys you can
play all of Bach and most if not
all of Mozart, more music than
you could play in ten lifetimes.

Second, 61-key portables are
ideal for college students. They
are very light and convenient
and can be plopped down anywhere
and played: on a table, the
bed, the floor. They are just
plain fun to use, which is
probably why you're so
enthusiastic about piano right
now. Were you to get an 88-key
weighted digital, you'd then
have to sit down in one place,
on a bench, and play, and you'll
have to work to get the weighted
keys moving under your fingers,
which can quickly turn piano
into an unfun activity. And
88-key digitals take up a
surprising amount of floor
space, almost the same as an
acoustic upright piano, since
all 88-key keyboards have the
same dimensions. You're going
to need an area of about 5' x 2'
to permanently put the
88-key digital, because it
would be impractical to
store it away after each use.

Third, you can get big savings
on factory restocks. However,
with a return, you are not
guaranteed to get the original
factory owner's manual, since
the person who returned the piano
might have kept the manual.
I consider the owner's manual
something absolutely essential
to have. I would not accept
a printed-out manual, or the
store saying to go to some website
and print it out yourself.

Gyro, you have no idea the frustration playing on an unweighted keyboard gives a student when playing on an actual piano in the lesson or anywhere else, for that matter. Organists routinely practice on a piano for this very reason: to keep their chops up. Most of my students who start out on a keyboard with unweighted keys start to get frustrated after 2 months. Only those who can deal with this constant frustration last longer with it, and most of them last longer only because they have to for financial reasons, not because it's OK and they want to.

What Bach played on was nothing like what pianos today are like, and so unless a person can expect to find a period instrument wherever they play, it is useless to even talk about it. If someone is unaccustomed to modern day piano action, then they will always struggle when playing on one, period.

Plus the OP didn't ask your opinion on whether or not to upgrade, but if the restock was OK.

meep:

I've purchased things from Musician's Friend before (though no restock) and have had very good results. One recommendation I have is that when you open your package, be careful to keep it in tact and hold onto it until you know for sure everything is in working order. That way it is easy to send back. When I bought my FP-7 (new) from B&H, the box was almost completely ruined and unusable. The piano was in good shape, but there is a buzzing from a loose screw or something inside whenever I hit the G4, and I was not allowed to exchange it with B&H since I didn't have the original box!

i would take that P85 as long as it has warranty and free return policy. go for it, and don't bother with anything with less than 88-keys or no weighted keys.

Read the warranty. Some restock come with full warranty and others with 30 days. Depends on the reseller.

B-stock and "factory restock" are common to most companies - although different resellers and companies will have different warranties on them. Kurzweil themself (for instance) warranties new stock items for one year, B-stock for 90 days. Should not really be a problem - since most electronic items either fail quite quickly or last for quite a while.

The most common cause of an item being factory restock is that there was some sort of failure - when it was originally sold, there was some problem that resulted in it being returned through the distribution chain. This could have been an appearance defect, some function or functions that did not work as they should, or even that the first buyer did not understand something about the device and returned it under the very open return policies the MF and other larger online sellers have.

What happens at that point depends on the company. Generally (and in Yamaha's case, unless they have changed policy), the instrument is not returned to the original factory, but is repaired somehwere by an authorized service center. Most large etailers such as MF maintain their own service centers. My firm was an authorized Yamaha service center for a number of years, when I focused on the musical trade as opposed to the computer trade.

My 76key PC3 is a B-stock item, that I purchased from Sweetwater. I could not tell that the unit was not new when I received it (and I had a PC3X that I did purchase new to compare it with). As they mention, there may be some physical blemishes, or there may not.

OTOH, some of the less scrupleous companies will palm off as B-stock items that have been badly abused, usually as demos in their stores. As long as you have right of return, your maximum loss is the shipping cost.

Yeah. And you know what? Bach and other luminaries could probably practice with a 49 row of black and white rocks on the ground and still do brilliant work. But for my part, I find that practicing on my unweighted (Yamaha 61-key) keyboard gives me nearly zero help with dynamic control on a real piano. And faster passages? Or trills? Hahahaha. I might as well practice on my QWERTY keyboard. Anyway, back on topic:


Thanks for the tip.


That's how I'm thinking about it, and from what folks have said here (and Googling around a bit) it sounds like it's worth the risk.

I bought a B Stock / Factory from Music 123 and it is fine. It still had the 45 day return policy and 1 year warranty and I saved a bundle. It was missing the song book, but they scrounged one up from the warehouse.

I'd say just make sure they'll give you the same warranty and return policy.

Turns out that they aren't "expecting in 17 days" even though the website still claims that they are... the Yamaha P85 restock at Musician's Friend (still just $429) shipped as soon as I sorted out some foolishness with my billing.

It arrived today via UPS and... hey, it looks great to me. I'm not really seeing any defects. All the buttons and voices seem to work, no problems with the keys, nothing. I'm feeling like the restock was definitely, definitely the way to go.



(Now Yamaha's PKBZ1 Z-stand, on the other hand, is not pulling its weight. Doesn't really seem to fit the P85 very well, and it's downright wobbly. Looks like I'll have to upgrade to the unduly expensive L85. Bah.)