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I'm refining the performance markings of one of my piano pieces, and I'm wondering what are some of the methods for notating the use of the sostenuto pedal? I'm using the traditional Ped. * and una corda/tre corde directions, but since the sostenuto pedal is a relatively recent phenomenon, it seems like its notation hasn't been standardized. So I just wanted to ask everyone their preferred method for notating the use of the middle pedal. I've been recommended this:


____________________________]
sost.


Also this:


Ped. II ______________________]


Any ideas? Should I be worried about using something similar to the two above while sticking to the traditional indications for the other two pedals? Thoughts?

edit: Maybe I should do something like this, in keeping with the traditional damper pedal direction:

sost. *

I think the first is clear enough. Perhaps the first time you use it in the score you should write out the word sostenuto pedal, and then abbreviate thereafter. Better to err on the side of clarity.

I have personally used the following notation in my pieces:

S.P._______________________]

to indicate sostenuto pedal.

Lilypond uses Sost. Ped. ____] for notating this function.

Ed

I've also seen Ped. III______] or P.III_____] for that. I wouldn't use Ped. II_____], that would be confusing since it could also mean the una corda pedal.

Barber just says "sostenuto Ped." underneath the bar.. Later in the piece he uses the abbreviated "sost. Ped."

I think "sos." in front of regular pedal notation works just fine in most cases. It is especially clear if the notation shows which note(s) are caught by it and their duration, using either some alternate note-head shape (like a diamond) or perhaps notes in parentheses to indicate they are being treated in a special way.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. So, here's another question. If I use one of the bracket notations suggested, such as Sost. Ped.__________], do you think I should change the notation for the damper pedal from the traditional Ped. *[1] to Ped.______________], for the sake of consistency? I've been looking at some solo pieces by Stockhausen and Messiaen, and even they use the traditional damper indication Ped. * (without the line or bracket). Alas, they don't indicate the use of the sostenuto pedal -- go figure!

I suppose the other way would be to use both the traditional Ped. * along with Sost. Ped. * if I wanted to be consistent.


[1] Obviously there should be spaces between Ped. and *, but this board won't let me do the spaces.

For whatever it's worth, here's a post I did elsewhere some time back on notating the sostenuto pedal...

"The published music where I've seen the sostenuto pedal used most often is in Vincent Persichetti's piano music. He had several ways of showing how it was used; it seemed to depend on how long it was held and on whether the notes being held were actually played or were prepared silently.

"The simplest would be when the notes to be held are sounded and are clearly separated from surrounding material in the score. In that case, Persichetti would precede the pedal sign with "sos." and use a dashed line to indicate duration, ending with the pedal off sign (that one looks like a star or asterisk). The initial notes themselves would have ties coming off them, to indicate the continuation of the sound. In some cases, he would notate the end of the held sounds with ties leading into notes with diamond-shaped noteheads that visually indicate they are somehow special and not regular notes. If the notes weren't actually sounded but just prepared by depressing the key silently, he'd use small gracenote-sized diamond-shaped noteheads for that and would add a footnote saying "Prepare silently".

"Persichetti was extremely precise in his pedal indications of all sorts, and sometimes would use an up arrow pointing at a certain note or chord to show exactly where the pedal should be depressed. If you can find the edition of his complete piano sonatas at a library, look at pages 10 and 11 of the ninth sonata, and also at the several uses of the sos. pedal in the eleventh sonata for examples. He also uses footnotes throughout the eleventh sonata to clarify what he wants, and there are several regarding the sos. pedal.

"I'm not sure if these are standard, or even if there is a standard, but I never had any problem understanding exactly what Persichetti was asking for."

(And speaking of Persichetti, I see that the new recording of the complete piano sonatas is out on New World - I have to get them.)

Bartók was one of the first to write this pedal in piano score. He wrote "Prol. Ped." for 'Prolongation Pedal'.

Interesting -- I missed that! In what works did he use that indication?

His ealiest quotes I don't know, but it is in Mikrokosmos vol. IV nr. 109 'From the island of Bali'.

I hope it's okay to revive an old thread.

Very helpful, I'll most likely use sost. (the less the better I suppose), but I didn't see anyone mentioning how the notes are actually affected in their writing.

While I will write sost. beneath the chords held, I will also write the notes as they should be heard, viz. the notes that are held for duration will be written and tied for as long as needed; meanwhile, the notes not affected by the sostenuto will be written accordingly. I would think this alone would hint at the need of sostenuto, but the word sost. would merely act as a clarifier. No release symbol would be needed.

Therefore, the line that follows everyone's example (sost. ped. _______]) will not be required, keeping the page that much cleaner. I also use both sostenuto and sustain simultaneously to great effect and can then notate Ped and Asterisk, again without interference from those blasted lines (I'm not a fan of them).

I agree with Sost. Ped under the line.

By the way, I don't really like music that overuses the sostenuto pedal. Eventually the sounds becomes tedious if the music has little structure and the sostenuto is utilized because the composer has basically run out of ideas.

For the most part, pianists prefer the other two pedals. We are used to using them, it becomes second nature to us. I've only used the sost. once in the last two years. (Maybe I'm not playing enough 20th Century music).

If you're not using the sostenuto as a gimmick, then good luck to you.

best wishes,
Valerie

This is a little off topic but please indulge;

To "Sos" prounounced "suss" in Gaelic means to go for a little rest or a cat nap.

Piano World is amazing. I was just Googling "piano pedal notations" as I was just stumped by a notation in my score of Ravel's Ondine. I should have just come here in the first place. Duh!

Anyway, here's the thing. All the tempo markings and such are in French. In several places there it is noted "2 Ped" There is also a ppp marking in those places, so, based on the discussion here, I'm guessing it's calling for the una corda pedal. Am I right?

Yes, absolutely right. As most European pianos well into the 20th century did not have a sostenuto pedal, the indication to use the second pedal was invariably an indication to use the una corda. You'll occasionally see in Debussy : "les deux pédales" indicating both the damper and una corda pedals at the same time. I'll see if I can find a specific example or two.

Regards,

Thanks! Mystery solved.