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#1346140 - 01/10/10 08:40 PM Schubert discussing love
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6037
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
My piano teacher performed this piece in a recital once (Schubert's Impromptu in G Flat Major Op. 90 No. 3). He said that Schubert composed an essay titled "My Dream" in a part of it read "For long years I felt torn between the greatest grief and the greatest love. ... Whenever I attempted to sing of love, it turned to pain. And again, when I tried to sing of pain, it turned to love. Thus were love and pain divided in me."

And then he played the piece. It really compelled me, moved me to tears even because of how beautiful yet longing the piece was.

I'm not sure why this quote and the piece hit home so much, but it did. Discuss anybody?
Click to reveal..
(And no, not if Horowitz's interpretation is better than Zimerman's or if Brendel's is better than Horowitz's or Zimerman or if Horowitz's is better than Brendel's or if Zimerman's is better than both Horowitz and Brendel or if someone else's interpretion is better than all three of them, etc.)

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#1346227 - 01/10/10 09:53 PM Re: Schubert discussing love [Re: Orange Soda King]
pianist87 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 139
Loc: NJ, USA
I'm not really answering your question, just sharing my similar experience.

My previous piano teacher performed that piece often too, and my heart would ache whenever I listen to it.

Thanks for sharing the quote!

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#1346238 - 01/10/10 09:57 PM Re: Schubert discussing love [Re: Orange Soda King]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5837
Loc: Down Under
I can't think of any other composer who so epitomises this grief/love dichotomy. I see it in just about every piece of Schubert.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1346265 - 01/10/10 10:22 PM Re: Schubert discussing love [Re: currawong]
tomasino Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 2039
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota
The quote fits what we know of Schubert. What a tragic life he lived, and what a gift he left.

I've never heard or read of an essay by Schubert though. A great deal of the little we know of Schubert's life is what his many friends wrote about him decades after his death. They were old men and were asked to help out his first biographers by writing down their remembrances of Schubert. So maybe someone was paraphrasing a conversation they recollected. Or maybe he wrote it in a letter.

Tomasino
_________________________
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do so with all thy might." Ecclesiastes 9:10


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#1346270 - 01/10/10 10:25 PM Re: Schubert discussing love [Re: tomasino]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5837
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: tomasino
I've never heard or read of an essay by Schubert though. A great deal of the little we know of Schubert's life is what his many friends wrote about him decades after his death. They were old men and were asked to help out his first biographers by writing down their remembrances of Schubert. So maybe someone was paraphrasing a conversation they recollected. Or maybe he wrote it in a letter.
In the Christopher Nupen film The Greatest Love & The Greatest Sorrow I think the quote is attributed to a letter and/or a diary entry.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1346522 - 01/11/10 08:23 AM Re: Schubert discussing love [Re: currawong]
tomasino Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 2039
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Schubert certainly had a gift for friendship, and I always feel very grateful whenever I think of his friends. Other great composers had "patrons." Schubert had "friends." He and his music would have died on the vine without them.

Tomasino
_________________________
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do so with all thy might." Ecclesiastes 9:10


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#1346568 - 01/11/10 09:39 AM Re: Schubert discussing love [Re: tomasino]
tomasino Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 2039
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota
My last post above put me into a nostalgic mood about the friends of Franz Schubert. They should be named. Here are the ones I can remember offhand.

There was Mayrhofer, who shared a room with Schubert for a while, and wrote the poems for a fair number of his songs; there was Schober, who put him up when he had no money, apparently on Schober's mother's sofa; there was the famous baritone, Michael Vogl, who sang his songs; there was Huettenbrenner, who first promoted Schubert to the Viennese elite; and then there was Spaun, and I believe he's the one who is accused by biographers of getting Schubert into the deep weeds of trouble--but it was a gesture made in friendship, and I, for one, can forgive. There were many others too, whose names I can't remember, but whose names should not be forgotten.

Later, when Schubert's fame was growing of its own accord, many of his friends wrote to his first biographers. Like older men often do, they pumped themselves up, promoted themselves, and distorted events to advantage, giving more recent biographers the difficult task of sorting all of this out, and some of them grouse about it a bit. Having experienced aging for a number of years now, I know something about this phenomena, and again, I can forgive. After all, aside from a few scattered documents and letters, it's the best we have of Schubert's life.

And we do have the music. Without his many friends, we would probably not even know it ever existed.

I raise a toast to the many friends of Franz Schubert.

PROSIT

Tom
_________________________
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do so with all thy might." Ecclesiastes 9:10


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#1346594 - 01/11/10 10:28 AM Re: Schubert discussing love [Re: tomasino]
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2505
Loc: Maine
I had never heard that quote. It's fits the music perfectly. Thanks.
_________________________
"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
www.peytonart.com


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#1348221 - 01/13/10 12:14 AM Re: Schubert discussing love [Re: Peyton]
John Citron Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 3925
Loc: Haverhill, Massachusetts
Schubert, being one of my favorite composers, strikes me as being a very gentle person. His soul comes out in his songs and other works. To give his works the justice they deserve, one has to study many of them to really understand, or at least get a glimpse of what he's saying. What I'm saying is if we only play a single Impromptu or Moment Musiceaux, we never really see him for what he really is. These are cute little pieces that have some of his personality, but not a lot of it in them. His grander sonatas and chamber music bare all in some respects. From a repertoire standpoint, they are also some of the most difficult to play; not technically, but musically.

His two big solo piano fantasies are some unfathomably beautiful music. The big C-sharp minor section of his Wanderer sets my spine on fire with goose bumps. This particular section is so full of the deepest emotions that I think Schubert ever put on paper. It has the same theme as the beginning, however, the slow tempo and minor key turn it into a funeral march. Later on he moves the the relative major, E as though his spirit is moving on to heaven. His other lighter fantasy is very joyful with it's polonaise and little dittlings. This is as though he's trying to hide his depression and deep sadness that he had in his later years.

In many ways we can thank his brother for saving his piano works. When Franz was on his death bed, the family needed money for his upcoming funeral. Franz's brother went about having his works published to raise the funds. What we have today as individual works, such as the "Drei Klavierstüche were actually to be published as a piano sonata. Franz's brother found he could fetch more funds as individual works in a collection instead of as a single work. The same goes for other works as well including the other 5 Klavierstüche that we don't hear much of today. If this didn't happen, who knows what would of come of so many of his later works.

If I had the means, and if it were feasahle, I would build a time machine to go back and visit Franz Schubert. I wouldn't try to change history or destiny, but instead enjoy his company just as I enjoy the company of other people just they way they are.

John
_________________________
Nothing.

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#1348263 - 01/13/10 01:04 AM Re: Schubert discussing love [Re: John Citron]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
I might join you in that time machine, if only to tail Schubert, when he would tail Beethoven, through the streets of Vienna. I don't know if I'd remain quite so shy as Schubert, and never approach Beethoven, but, then, I'm sure I'd be reduced to a mere mute in his presence.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1348270 - 01/13/10 01:19 AM Re: Schubert discussing love [Re: stores]
John Citron Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 3925
Loc: Haverhill, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: stores
I might join you in that time machine, if only to tail Schubert, when he would tail Beethoven, through the streets of Vienna. I don't know if I'd remain quite so shy as Schubert, and never approach Beethoven, but, then, I'm sure I'd be reduced to a mere mute in his presence.


That would be great. I'd be quite honored to meet Hrr. Beethoven as well. I don't know what I would say either, and would mostly likely remain mute as well. After that we can then go on to England and have lunch with Clementi and have a recital by his poor employee/slave John Field. smile

John
_________________________
Nothing.

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#1348280 - 01/13/10 01:39 AM Re: Schubert discussing love [Re: John Citron]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
It WOULD be great! I'll let you go on to England on your own though. I'd gladly stay behind near Beethoven. He's the one figure in history (besides Christ I suppose) who I'd give nearly anything to go back in time to visit. If only to be a fly on the wall...
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1348417 - 01/13/10 09:11 AM Re: Schubert discussing love [Re: stores]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3885
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: stores
I'd gladly stay behind near Beethoven. He's the one figure in history (besides Christ I suppose) who I'd give nearly anything to go back in time to visit. If only to be a fly on the wall...


Chances are if you (or anyone) were to visit, a fly on the wall is the best we can hope for. I have been reading a little book called Beethoven by his contemporaries. Many people were in awe of him and tried to arrange to visit but he was so cranky that he often did not even open the door. A princess of note (or countess) invited him once to her chateau to play for her guests that afternoon and he glibly told her messenger that he is not available and will think about it tomorrow, knowing that she was related to his main patron / sponsor. There are several funny stories including a visit from a highly placed commander who was also refused entry into Beethoven's house on several occasions. The interesting part is that the various anecdotes are written by the individuals who experienced them, often with great detail (including descriptions of the dismal state of affairs in Beethoven's dwelling, eg unemptied refuse, little food and manuscripts everywhere ..There are some entries from his conversation book as well I think..

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#1348420 - 01/13/10 09:15 AM Re: Schubert discussing love [Re: Andromaque]
John Citron Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 3925
Loc: Haverhill, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Originally Posted By: stores
I'd gladly stay behind near Beethoven. He's the one figure in history (besides Christ I suppose) who I'd give nearly anything to go back in time to visit. If only to be a fly on the wall...


Chances are if you (or anyone) were to visit, a fly on the wall is the best we can hope for. I have been reading a little book called Beethoven by his contemporaries. Many people were in awe of him and tried to arrange to visit but he was so cranky that he often did not even open the door. A princess of note (or countess) invited him once to her chateau to play for her guests that afternoon and he glibly told her messenger that he is not available and will think about it tomorrow, knowing that she was related to his main patron / sponsor. There are several funny stories including a visit from a highly placed commander who was also refused entry into Beethoven's house on several occasions. The interesting part is that the various anecdotes are written by the individuals who experienced them, often with great detail (including descriptions of the dismal state of affairs in Beethoven's dwelling, eg unemptied refuse, little food and manuscripts everywhere ..There are some entries from his conversation book as well I think..


This sounds like an interesting book.

His dwelling isn't much like my house has been lately so Hrr. Beethoven and I would get along fine. wink

I too have a tendency to neglect the more essential things like tidying up over practicing the piano, and have books and stuff everywehre!

John
_________________________
Nothing.

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