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#1347514 - 01/12/10 09:38 AM Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3514
Loc: not in Japan anymore
After hearing Mr S-H's last recital rendition of Cristofori's Dream (by David Lanz), I decided to finally play this piece (after all these years of saying "I'm gonna play that one day"). So for people who have already mastered this piece and put it away, I hope you'll join in and offer some words of wisdom. Monica, do you still have this piece in your playable repetoire?

I broke the music up into 5 sections, cleverly labeling them A through E :P Seriously, if anyone wants to know my sections, I will list them by measure number. I think breaking this piece into sections makes it much more manageable.

I started with section E (roughly pages 8-9) and have been working backwards from the end, I am now playing sections B through E (which is the last line on page 3, through the end of page 9 of the Narada Piano Sampler 9-page version). So that means I don't really have any challenging sections left to start work on, but it doesn't mean I've mastered all the sections I've covered so far!

I also went back and re-read the old thread started by Rocky, "Cristofori's Dream, my nightmare." That brought back memories! Except I don't think page 4 is the hardest spot (that was one of the talking points in that old thread). I think the most challenging sections are in pages 5 (see below), 6 and 7. And the runs (there are two) on page 7 (measures 109 and 111) are hard to play well, and play musically, without making any flubs.

Question:
For people who have played the 9-pg version, does anyone play the extra notes in the section at the bottom of page 5? If you count the measures, I'm talking about the last two lines of music on page 5, measures 73 through 78. I can't remember if this was ever discussed in the ABF before or not, but I think it was. I think David Lanz plays some extra notes that are not in the score. So for measures 73-76, the RH plays a repeating G with the thumb, so the right hand is 16th instead of 8th notes, same in measures 77-78 except the added note is not a G but a D. Anyone know what I'm talking about? Anyone play those notes?

Edited to add:
We talked about those notes in this thread in 2007 ! So that explains why that section wasn't as hard as I expected it to be, I've worked on it before!! Oh my brain! (Of course, I remembered that I'd worked on the music before, I just couldn't remember how much work I'd done on it. Now, as I recall, I worked on isolated sections, picking the difficult parts, but I don't think I had worked on the piece as a whole before setting it aside, I think in favor of studying for the GRE!! Ah, now the memories all come rushing back!)


Edited by ShiroKuro (01/12/10 09:49 AM)
Edit Reason: add info!
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#1347536 - 01/12/10 10:07 AM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: ShiroKuro]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17809
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Hi Shiro, I still play Cristofori's Dream regularly, and usually still flub up somewhere in that 9-page epic. laugh I finally came up with a recording of it that I thought was okay enough to put on my annual compilation CD, though it's rather like "Le Onde" for me in that I don't feel like I've achieved my best on it.

I remember you asking about those extra notes. I don't play them myself, but I remember thinking at the time that I should buy that DVD where he talks about how to play C.D. and other pieces and try to add those notes in, because it sounds a lot better, doesn't it?

I agree with you that those runs are the trickiest part of the piece for me. Getting them fast enough, smooth enough, AND not missing the jump is a challenge. The other hardest part for me is the dreaded D-F#-A octaves that Rocky and I commiserated over in his old thread. (I'm at work now so I don't what measure numbers that part is.) (Where *is* rocky these days? I miss the guy!)

It's such a beautiful piece, Shiro. I can't wait to hear your recording of it. smile
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1347539 - 01/12/10 10:09 AM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: ShiroKuro]
cruiser Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1171
Loc: Cornwall, England
You've aroused my interest Shiro. I have the music for Cristofori's dream and I too would like to take a stab at it - lovely piece! smile

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#1347574 - 01/12/10 10:56 AM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: cruiser]
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3514
Loc: not in Japan anymore
Monica, I don't think you need the DVD, or even a different version of the score, to add the extra notes. They're not that difficult as long as you're not using your thumb to play any of the other notes in the RH. The trick, as always, is to practice very slowly (and then practice very fast, duh! crazy

If you want to try them, let me know and I'll try to write up a more comprehensive explanation.

I think the trick to this piece is to keep thinking forward in the music. Focusing on what's coming next, where the melody is going, will hopefully help me to maintain my concentration. Also, I am working on really making it sing. It's deceptively easy, so I think there's a tendancy to continuously practice HT, but going back and just playing the melody, RH only, and singing along, gave me some ideas about how the dynamics and phrasing should work. So, there are no phrase-markings (like the kind often seen in classical scores, where an arc highlights a phrase that might go for half a measure or several measures). So I think the key here is to find those phrases ourselves and play them consciously, instead of just plodding through. (Which is of course so much easier!)

Cruiser (and anyone else) I highly recommend this piece. It's very easy to get into, incredibly simple conceptually, but challenging and satisfying to play.

But I have 2 recommendations to anyone who wants to play it.

1) Break it up into sections (I mean sections of music here, not practice sections, so some of my sections are 2 pages long or more). Think about what's happeneing in the music, make a musical story if you like, but take those 9 pages and turn them into smaller chunks. That way you know what you're working on. (Monica, that's what I did with Nevue's Where the Trees Sleep, which is "only" 7 pages long. I made sections and gave them descriptive/story-telling names)

2) Start at the end. This is different from starting at the hardest part (which is of course another good approach). Start at the end and you will get the main theme right away. Then, as you practice, you'll always be moving into music that you know, which is doubly important in a piece that's 9 pages long. Then when you get to the hardest part, you'll know where it fits in the music because you'll know the main theme. And you'll still have fun playing it because you will be able to play the easier part (the end). And then, by the time you get to the beginning (where I am in today's practice) it will seem easy.
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#1348663 - 01/13/10 02:58 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: ShiroKuro]
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3514
Loc: not in Japan anymore
Erm, the biggest challenge from today's practice session:

How to turn the pages?!!

For better or worse, I have linked up the sheets to this piece, so they are all in one continuous accordion-stream. But, at 9 pages, it's too long to have all stretched out. So I thought I could set it up so that I turn the pages twice, once after page 1, and once... well, that's what I'm trying to figure out. Right now I have the last page turn at page 5, but it's pretty hard to coordinate playing the bass notes and turning with my LH (and the RH is too busy, although I prefer to turn with the right when possible). Maybe I need to re-think that and set it up to turn closer to the end.

Oh, and after all that work on octaves in the second half of the music, the section where the RH plays 6ths is giving me some trouble (those are 6ths, aren't they? The music is in the other room). My hand, used to playing the octaves, overstretches and I end up playing 7ths. Ah well, that should mellow out once I put more effort into practicing the music as a whole.

Crisotofori dreams of piano, I dream of a personal page-turner! :P
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#1348795 - 01/13/10 05:17 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: ShiroKuro]
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3596
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
I'm envious and frustrated - I really wish I could be joining you guys in the study of this incredible piece of music (I've loved CD since I first heard it some years ago), but two small things are stopping me: lack of the proper advanced technique that this work requires and demands, and a full schedule of other rather difficult (for me) pieces I'm currently trying to "beat into submission" (including beginning work on my May 15th Recital piece already (a Spanish-flavored New Age piece by a Russian composer, which is all I'm saying for now) - Super_Hunky's version of CD in the last recital was truely amazing and was everything I was hoping it would be, and virtually overpowered my simplified version of Lanz's "Leaves on the Seine" in that Recital (another beautiful piece you all should consider doing some day!).

But I wish you guys much luck and success and loads of joy in the study of this masterpiece, and hope you keep us updated on your progress.

JF
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

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#1348833 - 01/13/10 05:54 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: TrapperJohn]
LiszThalberg Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3288
I played it a while back and the melody is soooo catchy. I think I turned pages by memorizing some of the either previous measure to the turn page or the measure after the page turn and waited till my hand was free to flip.

It's been a little while since I've looked at it, but I thought there were a TON of paterns in the music. Do the theory behind the LH, and I guarrentee it will be the easiest piece to memorize.

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#1349022 - 01/13/10 10:08 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: LiszThalberg]
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3514
Loc: not in Japan anymore
JF, good luck with your recital piece. But don't put Cristofori's Dream off unnecessarily, it really is a very accessible piece. It does have it's challenging elements, but musically it's so easy to see what's going on.

Debussy20, I realize I must be a right-handed-turner (which makes sense since you have to grab the right side of the right page). I tend to do the "memorize a bit before/after the page turn" method with no problems, but I'm not finding my right hand free at any convenient times.

Tomorrow I will try laying out the sheet (it's no longer "sheets" since I have it all linked together!) differently so the second page turn is much later in the music, becuase there are so spots where the right hand is free.

Still, it would probably be better to become comfortable turning with my left hand as well. Even if it does feel awkward to reach across the body to do so...
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#1349294 - 01/14/10 10:43 AM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: ShiroKuro]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17809
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Shiro, Matt is right: there are so many patterns and repetitions you'll have it memorized in no time. I think in my case the first and last pages were almost instantly memorized, and I pretty quickly got it down to only 5 pages that I needed to look at most of the time I was learning it, which I could spread out without having to turn pages.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1349344 - 01/14/10 12:20 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: Monica K.]
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3596
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
For those reading here who have never heard David Lanz's awesome "Christofori's Dream" here is the composer himself with his own benchmark rendition, played against a gorgeous photo slideshow:



It's hard to see where art could get any better than this.

JF
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

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#1349830 - 01/14/10 09:01 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: TrapperJohn]
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3514
Loc: not in Japan anymore
JF, thanks for the video!

Although, I have to confess that I hate rather dislike piano with synth'ed strings like this. Or sometimes even real strings, like the Maksim version of Croatian Rhapsody where he plays with strings etc, that's linked in the Croatian Rhapsody thread. I probably would not have wanted to play either of these pieces if I hadn't heard the solo piano arrangement. (I guess I'm narrow-minded like that!)

There is a YouTube video of David Lanz playing C.D. that starts with a sort of tutorial, and then he plays and it's just his instrumental. I much prefer that! But I like the artwork in the video you linked.
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#1349832 - 01/14/10 09:04 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: ShiroKuro]
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3514
Loc: not in Japan anymore
P.S. Today I discovered that yesterday I had selected the worst possible sections for paging turning, and so part of today's practice was redesigning the whole thing! So now I have it set up so that there are 4 pages of music on the stand, I turn 3 times, but at much better spots. Practice went much better after I figured out the best set-up for the score.

(That was after I had the music all sprawled out, and watched it slide off the piano about a billion times. One of the many drawbacks of digital pianos)


Edited by ShiroKuro (01/14/10 09:05 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling, grammar, all that
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#1349838 - 01/14/10 09:08 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: ShiroKuro]
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3514
Loc: not in Japan anymore
P.P.S.

Sorry to spam!! Here's a link for the solo David Lanz:

David Lanz "Cristofori's Dream"

Music starts at 1 minute 10 seconds IIRC
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#1349910 - 01/14/10 10:23 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: ShiroKuro]
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4269
Loc: Arizona.
Hi Shiro, thanks again for the compliments. Sorry for the late reply as I've been overwhelmed dealing with my latest injury to myself,(torn ACL) in my knee while cutting down a pine tree and having a large branch break off and land on me!

Anyway,to answer your question you must understand that I honestly don't know anything. You and everyone else knows that. So how can I play this tune when I can barely read it? easy. Heres my method once again.

I learn music by playing the original piece over and over.........and over. A brazillion times if I have to in order to thoroghly "know it" in my mind. Once I have done this, I hardly have to use my sheet music because in reality I'm only glancing at it occasionally. I read an original score more like you would a fake book rather than note by note.

If you know exactly where the next passage of any piece is going to go next, you are at a decision point in your mind (depending on your piano training). Do you (a.) play what the written score tells you to play?, or (b.) do you *find* the corresponding sound/note on the keyboard that you know comes next via playing by ear?

In my case I do both. You see, I'm a HORRIBLE sight reader because I HATE IT. Sightreading to me is like kryptonite or worse, being forced to sit down and read assembly instructions on anything. Pure torture! So, I've developed my own hybrid method of *sort of* playing the written score while *sort of* playing it by ear all at the same time.

Again, I do this by becoming extremely familiar with the piece in my mind and then playing it by ear only to use the written score as a guide.

When the piece is going good and I'm not screwing up the notes, I don't really pay much attention to whatever the score says because I am staying on track in my mind along with how the piece should sound. If however I am having trouble finding certain sounds/notes or if I don't exactly remember the next upcoming section only then will I start looking very closely at the written score to keep me on track. Still at these times I use the written score more like a fake book rather than reading/playing note per note.

This is why when you listen to any of my performances of anything I play it will sound very close to the original but not exactly accurate because in actuality, the majority of the piece is being played by ear with an occasional glance or two at the actual score just to keep me in my lane!

Assuming you understand what I am doing as mentioned above, the other thing I cannot stress enough is DON'T PRACTICE WHAT YOU CAN ALREADY PLAY WELL! Highlight the sections that give you trouble and play them very s-l-o-w-l-y, eventually speeding it up when you are able.

I firmly believe that there are analytical type players...i.e MUST have sheet music or no-go and then there are creative type players who can play anything sans the score. I am neither, more like someone who is stuck between these two methods but as wacky as my method may sound, it works; at least for me.

Good luck.



Edited by mr_super-hunky (01/14/10 10:30 PM)

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#1349914 - 01/14/10 10:31 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: Mr Super-Hunky]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5638
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Originally Posted By: mr_super-hunky
... I read an original score more like you would a fake book rather than note by note.
... So, I've developed my own hybrid method of *sort of* playing the written score while *sort of* playing it by ear all at the same time.

Again, I do this by becoming extremely familiar with the piece in my mind and then playing it by ear only to use the written score as a guide.


I'm working on it, Super-hunky, I'm working on it! For me, this is wonderful training to "hear" more of what I'm playing, so that I can play more of the things I hear in my head when I'm just thinking a tune - a (long, slow, but fun) path to playing/arranging/comping by ear for things besides old-time and Irish tunes. I may not get there before I die, but I'm learning a lot -

Back to Cristofori's dream - I'll close the door on my way out -

Cathy
_________________________

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#1349922 - 01/14/10 10:37 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: Mr Super-Hunky]
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3514
Loc: not in Japan anymore
Hey Mr S-H, so sorry to hear about your injury!! Hope you feel better soon!!

Re C.D. thanks for your imput. I am definitely an "addicted to score" type as opposed to a "play by ear" type. And this music is so easy to read. I think I have made really good progress in the last two days esp, because I have been able to really look way ahead in the musis and it's helped to both to start to memorize is and play more smoothly, which is a great reinforcer.

Thanks for reminding me with your comment about not playing what you already know. I think that's key for this piece especially, since the easy parts are so easy, and the tricky parts are almost there. It would be very easy to just play through it now, never polishing those tricky parts. But I hope to eventually record this, so I don't want to leave any sloppiness. And in the more immediate future, I'm going to play it for my teacher on Monday, I doubt she will let me get away with that!
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#1349951 - 01/14/10 11:00 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: ShiroKuro]
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4269
Loc: Arizona.
Cathy, that's great that you are slowly learning to locate sounds on the keyboard (playing by ear) as well as have the ability to sightread.

My logic is that my sightreading abilities should be compatible with the amount in which I use it; that being proficiently basic.

My dream is to be able to play anything I want just by thinking about it. The way I want as well.

Someone who can transfer the musical thoughts in their head onto the keyboad accurately and with complete fullness has a truly incredible talent. It takes time. A lot of time but if you persistent and determined it WILL happen. Why?, heres why... Other people have done it. Not by the tens, hundreds, but tens of thousands, maybe more. It obviously can be done and the people who have done it come from any and all walks of life have accomplished it. You are no different than anyone of the people who have already done it. This is why you don't see every guy walking down the street looking like Arnold Schwartzenegger (in his prime) because it does'nt happen over night. It takes time. A lot of time. You get out of it what you put into it. Paying your dues.

Shiro, I'm glad to hear that your at the point where you can play the piece all the way through. Now perfect the rough spots and put a mirror shine on the rest that already sounds good.

Also, the way in which you perform the piece is almost better than the piece itself. Personalized inflections and emotion in a performance is what pops my cork!



Edited by mr_super-hunky (01/14/10 11:02 PM)

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#1358600 - 01/26/10 01:07 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: Mr Super-Hunky]
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3596
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
So, how's everyone doing?

JF
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

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#1358626 - 01/26/10 01:29 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: TrapperJohn]
Teodor Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 945
Loc: Bulgaria
I'm in love with this piece now... Looking at the score it seems so simple and yet there is so much depth in it. I'm looking forward to the day when I will be able to really play this piece.
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#1358649 - 01/26/10 01:47 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: TrapperJohn]
DancinDigits Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 68
Loc: USA
For you frustrated page turners -

there are a lot of repetitions in this piece. If you have the software/printer, here is my suggestion - I have a copy of the score on my hard drive. My method is to locate the measures that are repeats. I then make a simple notation of what previous measures are repeated where, then I delete the repetitive portions - something like what you would find in a 'fake' book. It shortens the amount of sheets you need. (Hope this makes some sort of sense).

I have not 'shortened' the score to CD as of yet. Looking at the piece and working with it, I would say that I agree, it is easy to memorize. I therefore do not know if I will bother to shorten this score - I may have it memorized by the time I have it polished.


I have identified a technical problem for me - in measure 12, for instance, my hand seems to wants to 'skip' over the keys, like a little girl who skips her way to school. This, of course, totally wrecks the emotional landscape of the piece. I have to guard against my fingers wanting to 'frolick' their way around the keyboard. (I think its those occassional 16th notes that are the culprits - bad 16th notes, bad!!). I am also working on playing the intervals - thirds and so on - legato. I experiment with fingering to try to find the best way to achieve this. I am still at it!

I have a long ways to go before I am even reasonably happy with the way I play this one. Lots of work ahead for me.

ShiroKuro - if you would be so kind as to post how you sectioned this piece off. I always enjoy looking at another's methods/way of seeing things. TIA.
_________________________
Music is the voice of the heart.

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#1358664 - 01/26/10 02:00 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: DancinDigits]
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3514
Loc: not in Japan anymore
Hi Dancing Digits, welcome to PW!

I don't have the score with me right now, but will post my sections later when I have a minute.

Also, the music is easy to memorize. Right now, I have an excellent page-turning method set up, so I still have the score out, (of course, part of my method is that the score is attached, so I can see 4 or 5 pages at once instead of the 2 that you'd get if you used it as in in the book). But eventually I will get to the point where I don't play from the score. This piece is such a crowd pleaser, I want to have it at my fingertips without the score (it will make a nice companion to DN's While the Trees Sleep IMO).

Am curious about measure 12... can't remember anything major so early in the piece... Wish I had the score with me!!

JF, the piece is coming along pretty well. I find that where I have trouble, (like the two sets of runs after measure 108-- don';t have the score so no more details than that) if I focus on playing the piece musically, and worry more about dynamics than about just getting the right notes, I find that the notes are there. I think I am at the point where I just need to work on maintaining my attention and polishing my interpretation of the music. Unfortunately, I am still too sloppy for it to be ready in time for the upcoming ABF recital. Maybe the May one...
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#1358665 - 01/26/10 02:02 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: DancinDigits]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17809
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Originally Posted By: DancinDigits
I have to guard against my fingers wanting to 'frolick' their way around the keyboard. (I think its those occassional 16th notes that are the culprits - bad 16th notes, bad!!).

...I have a long ways to go before I am even reasonably happy with the way I play this one. Lots of work ahead for me.


I don't know if I have a solution to this problem, but I have to say that your "bad 16th notes, bad!!" comment gave me a wonderful laugh on a busy day. Thanks!!

...And I will also say that I've been playing this piece now for close to four years, and I *still* have a lot of room to improve on it. I think it's a great piece for beginners in that respect. As you noted elsewhere, it's really not that demanding technically, so you can learn to play it fairly early on and it will sound pretty good. But playing it with the proper expression is another whole game--but once you do, it's sublime. heart
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Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
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#1358708 - 01/26/10 03:24 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: Monica K.]
DancinDigits Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 68
Loc: USA
ShiroKuro -

Thanks for the welcome! Nothing major is going on in measure 12 - its pretty straight forward and simple from a technical aspect of things. The problem may actually be with me - I am a stickler for legato, and am never quit satisfied with my playing. I feel there is always room for improvement, and sometimes the slightest error or imperfection in a simple section rings out like a fog horn in the dead of the night. Now that I am returning after an extended absence, I am even more unhappy with myself. Much ground to review. . .

Monica -

Glad I could make you laugh - always a positive thing in this world of ours today!

A general question to everyone here: how do you feel about adding to this piece? IOW, not changing the composition itself, not adding measures and so on, but rather adding some notes here and there within the chord structure as written? - keep the beginning as written in the original score (simple and dreamy, delicate. . . ) - and then when the music climaxes (somewhere towards the middle) adding notes. And then, towards the end of the piece, returning to the original score.

I sometimes do that as an exercise - both as a study of the scale/chord structure of a piece, as an ear training exercise (gee - what sounds good??), and just as an exercise of improvision and/or creativity.

Something like taking a piece and transposing it from its original key signature - for the benefits that such an exercise could offer without necessarily considering such changes for an actual performence.

Think of adding notes to Lanz's original score as a different arrangement and an experiment.
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#1359769 - 01/27/10 08:30 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: DancinDigits]
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3596
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
Originally Posted By: DancinDigits

A general question to everyone here: how do you feel about adding to this piece? IOW, not changing the composition itself, not adding measures and so on, but rather adding some notes here and there within the chord structure as written? - keep the beginning as written in the original score (simple and dreamy, delicate. . . ) - and then when the music climaxes (somewhere towards the middle) adding notes. And then, towards the end of the piece, returning to the original score.



If David doesn't mind I'm not sure anyone else would...

Personally, I prefer to subtract notes... laugh

The version of his "Leaves on the Seine" That I played in the last Recital was a simplified version (although surprisingly faithful to the original thematically). There is a simplified version of C.D. (5 pages) in the same book which, if I had the time, I might consider working on here. Although it wouldn't be fair to the rest of you it could serve as a somewhat interesting contrast - a sort of "preview of coming attractions' so to speak.

JF
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Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

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#1359881 - 01/27/10 11:08 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: TrapperJohn]
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4269
Loc: Arizona.
Originally Posted By: John Frank
[quote=DancinDigits]
A general question to everyone here: how do you feel about adding to this piece? IOW, not changing the composition itself, not adding measures and so on, but rather adding some notes here and there within the chord structure as written? - keep the beginning as written in the original score (simple and dreamy, delicate. . . ) - and then when the music climaxes (somewhere towards the middle) adding notes. And then, towards the end of the piece, returning to the original score.



Personally, anyone who would even consider doing this I would consider scum. What nerve!


Edited by mr_super-hunky (01/27/10 11:08 PM)

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#1359907 - 01/27/10 11:35 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: Mr Super-Hunky]
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3514
Loc: not in Japan anymore
I have added some notes, but they are based on listening to Lanz's version and adding what I think is not in the score, but in the original. So that's probably not what you're talking about.

BTW I said I would list my sections, and forgot. So here they are. IOW, if I was the music editor, I would put rehearsal marks in the following way:

A- measure 1
B- measure 41
C- measure 73
D- measure 81
E- measure 119

Some comments:
*I have the Narada version that's 9 pages.

*The notes I added are in measures 73 thru 79. The RH thumb plays 16th notes interspresed with the LH melody.

*When I practice in sections, I tend to practice measure 71 thru 80 together)

*Section D is pretty long, and I originally practiced it as D1 and D2, with D2 starting at measure 102.

*This score is 146 measures long. If anyone hasn't already, I highly recommend going through and writing the measure number in for the first measure of each line. It makes it much easier to make your own sections.

I did a similar kind of section-making with David Nevue's While the Trees Sleep, but I also gave each section a name (sort of poetic, sort of musically descriptive). That had the end result of both making it easy to get into the habit of playing the piece from memory, and also helping me play more expressively, because I feel like I'm telling a story based on those section names I created. I hope to do something similar with C.D. but haven't sat down to think about it yet.


Edited by ShiroKuro (01/27/10 11:37 PM)
Edit Reason: can't type
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#1360073 - 01/28/10 08:58 AM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: Mr Super-Hunky]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17809
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Originally Posted By: mr_super-hunky
Originally Posted By: John Frank
[quote=DancinDigits]
A general question to everyone here: how do you feel about adding to this piece? IOW, not changing the composition itself, not adding measures and so on, but rather adding some notes here and there within the chord structure as written? - keep the beginning as written in the original score (simple and dreamy, delicate. . . ) - and then when the music climaxes (somewhere towards the middle) adding notes. And then, towards the end of the piece, returning to the original score.



Personally, anyone who would even consider doing this I would consider scum. What nerve!


DancinDigits, you're new enough to the forum that you might not realize that mr_super-hunky is pulling your leg. In fact, he is the champion of improvising his own gorgeous arrangements of pieces. (Heretical though it may sound, I think I like his "Lake Erie Rainfall" even better than Brickman's.) His first version of Cristofori's Dream (not the recital version Shiro referenced in the opening post of this thread) is a good example of this style. Maybe he'll post a link to it here after he's done kidding you. wink
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Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1360178 - 01/28/10 12:35 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: Monica K.]
DancinDigits Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 68
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Monica K.
Originally Posted By: mr_super-hunky
Originally Posted By: John Frank
[quote=DancinDigits]
A general question to everyone here: how do you feel about adding to this piece? IOW, not changing the composition itself, not adding measures and so on, but rather adding some notes here and there within the chord structure as written? - keep the beginning as written in the original score (simple and dreamy, delicate. . . ) - and then when the music climaxes (somewhere towards the middle) adding notes. And then, towards the end of the piece, returning to the original score.



Personally, anyone who would even consider doing this I would consider scum. What nerve!


DancinDigits, you're new enough to the forum that you might not realize that mr_super-hunky is pulling your leg. In fact, he is the champion of improvising his own gorgeous arrangements of pieces. (Heretical though it may sound, I think I like his "Lake Erie Rainfall" even better than Brickman's.) His first version of Cristofori's Dream (not the recital version Shiro referenced in the opening post of this thread) is a good example of this style. Maybe he'll post a link to it here after he's done kidding you. wink




Oh darn! And here I thought things were going to liven up around here instead of all this nicey-nice stuff! wink

I would enjoy hearing Mr. SH's hereti. . . .uhm. . . . interpretation of Cristofori's Dream. Come to think of it, with a name like that, I probably would enjoy seeing him play it as well.

ShiroKu -

Thanks for your comment/notes. I jotted down your comments and placed it with my score of CD (which is the 9 pager).

I am presently experiementing with the RH fingering of the thirds in measure 20. I am not sure that I am totally pleased with my results. In fact, I am not. So far the best I seem to come up with is 24 on fa, 35 on gb (flat), 24 on fa, 13 on eg, 24 on df, 13 on ce, and the next measure will start with 12 on ad
so that I can continue on with 13 on ce..

As I said - not totally pleased with it, so I am still working on finding something that gives me the best legato. I do have an alternate fingering, but I am less pleased with it. Thus I may not come up with something better.
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Music is the voice of the heart.

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#1360199 - 01/28/10 01:07 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: DancinDigits]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17809
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Originally Posted By: DancinDigits

Oh darn! And here I thought things were going to liven up around here instead of all this nicey-nice stuff! wink


Naw... you gotta go over to the teacher's forum or pianist corner for those kinds of knock-down, drag-out fights. laugh

Originally Posted By: DancinDigits


I would enjoy hearing Mr. SH's hereti. . . .uhm. . . . interpretation of Cristofori's Dream. Come to think of it, with a name like that, I probably would enjoy seeing him play it as well.


Be careful what you ask for. Super-hunky plays piano in his speedo. eek
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Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1360223 - 01/28/10 01:42 PM Re: Cristofori's Dream- people who've played it please share [Re: Monica K.]
DancinDigits Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 68
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Monica K.

Be careful what you ask for. Super-hunky plays piano in his speedo. eek



For shame! I mean. . . .what, no Tie?!?!?!

Have a little class there Mr. Hunks-a-lot.
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