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#1846770 - 02/17/12 01:07 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
jjo,

my approach has been to do 2 things:
- Learn to play bass lines on those tunes I pretend to know
- Learn those tunes, chords + melodies in random keys.

Once you know a tune is several keys, it becomes really hard to forget it. Obviously, don't read it in multiple keys, just play it from memory in multiple keys. You will find it easier to memorize bass movements, than it is to memorize a chord progression multiple times.

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#1846850 - 02/17/12 03:04 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jjo]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1368
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: jjo
Am I just still weak in this area becuase of my years of playing with mjusic, and it's easy for everyone else to keep dozens of tunes at their fingertips?
It's not a question of keeping at my fingertips, but in my inner hearing.
If I can hear the tune I can then play it in any key. Well, it depends on the tune of course. smile
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

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#1846904 - 02/17/12 04:40 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
gig tonight -- wonder what my focus will be? I think I'll focus on space and quoting myself. And slow down.
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#1846921 - 02/17/12 04:59 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
>>And slow down.
Always a good option!!

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#1846922 - 02/17/12 05:00 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jjo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 639
Loc: Chicago
Knotty and Chris: Those are good suggestions. The difficulty is that I'm pretty poor at constructing a bass line, and playing a tune I know in another key is a slow and painful process. Particulary if I were to try to play a tune like Windows in another key. Standards are a bit easier. I do, however, play tunes in other keys because I know that it important to my development. I think I'll start going through the tunes I play and, one by one, make myself play them all in at least one other key. It's a start!

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#1846930 - 02/17/12 05:32 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Windows in another key....no thanks smile

Actually you already play it in different key from me. I'm a 'B' guy.

Keeping to standards only, I did find that playing with the bass really helped me with root movement.

The exercise I was given was just Root-7 Shells, and then a 1-3-5-3 arpeggio bass line. Both seemed to embed the form in my head. I haven't really gone on a memorization spree or attempted different memorized keys. So much time required.

I can play a tune in any key though if the leadsheet is in front of me. There's only so much practice time so sometimes we have to focus.
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#1846946 - 02/17/12 06:00 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jjo]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1213
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: jjo
I have a question on how everyone keeps up a repertoire of tunes you play by memory.

This is a troubling area for me, as I played piano using music for 40 years. For the first few years of my jazz study, I played just about everything using a lead sheet. Now I'm making a concerted effort to play most tunes at a gig by memory. It's made a huge difference in my play.

The problem is I've now got 20 or so tunes I know comfortably by memory and I'm trying to add to that. However, if I don't play a tune for a month, I've got to work on it to get it back comfortably in memory. So, I spend a good part of my practice time just running tunes. Mind you, it's fun (and pretty lazy, which suits me), but I'm not really working on stuff other than really getting the changes for a tune down.

Am I just still weak in this area becuase of my years of playing with mjusic, and it's easy for everyone else to keep dozens of tunes at their fingertips?


Mental practice is good when away from the piano. You can do it anywhere, when driving or while doing the washing up. Visualise the chord sequence, sing the melody, imagine the root notes, imagine the sounds of the various chords and scales that you may use. Running through it in your memory is almost as good as doing it at the keyboard, and certainly it should show up any weak areas. This way practice time can be spent on other things.

I always have some place in a tune where I can't quite remember the ending of a phrase or how the chords go at the end of the bridge, or the juicy voicings that I found last time I played it. That is why I write stuff down and sometimes check it before I play a tune. I maybe know it well enough to play at a gig but still not perfectly. There is always something more to know about it. Recently I have been checking the history of the tunes and listening to many different versions and sometimes (when I can be bothered)checking out the lyrics as well. Even the biogs of the composers, the first recorded versions etc. All that adds a fresh insight to the tune.
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#1846955 - 02/17/12 06:19 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jjo]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Originally Posted By: jjo
Knotty and Chris: Those are good suggestions. The difficulty is that I'm pretty poor at constructing a bass line, and playing a tune I know in another key is a slow and painful process. Particulary if I were to try to play a tune like Windows in another key. Standards are a bit easier. I do, however, play tunes in other keys because I know that it important to my development. I think I'll start going through the tunes I play and, one by one, make myself play them all in at least one other key. It's a start!


Jjo,
A couple of comments:
1. Hard tunes with hard progressions are going to be hard to memorize no matter what. Not because they have weird chords, but because it may be hard to hear the relationship between melody and harmony. Blue in Green is a good example of a tune that's really hard to hear.
So start with the standard tunes.
Indiana, All the things you are, Beautiful Love, Solar, My Romance, Wine and roses. All those "easy" tunes are a good start.
Start with 4 measures and learn it.
Indiana's a good example. It has kind of a particular movement, but one that's "easy" to hear. Many people play it in Bb, or Ab (donna lee), but the "book" has it in F.

2. Basslines.
First of all, playing bass line is an extremely valuable skill. If you're ever going to play solo or in a duet, it's a must.
Second, it's not that hard to do bassline + chords.
Third, there's no need to play fast. Slow is better. The point is that as you play the bassline, you hear it better. And in my view, the bass movement is what's most important about the progression.

Beeboss showed me how to memorize tunes. I was struggling with the roman numeral, but in fast, his method of seeing how the bass goes from one note to the next is simple and powerful.

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#1847189 - 02/18/12 09:24 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
KlinkKlonk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 365
Originally Posted By: beeboss
Originally Posted By: jjo
I have a question on how everyone keeps up a repertoire of tunes you play by memory.

This is a troubling area for me, as I played piano using music for 40 years. For the first few years of my jazz study, I played just about everything using a lead sheet. Now I'm making a concerted effort to play most tunes at a gig by memory. It's made a huge difference in my play.

The problem is I've now got 20 or so tunes I know comfortably by memory and I'm trying to add to that. However, if I don't play a tune for a month, I've got to work on it to get it back comfortably in memory. So, I spend a good part of my practice time just running tunes. Mind you, it's fun (and pretty lazy, which suits me), but I'm not really working on stuff other than really getting the changes for a tune down.

Am I just still weak in this area becuase of my years of playing with mjusic, and it's easy for everyone else to keep dozens of tunes at their fingertips?


Mental practice is good when away from the piano. You can do it anywhere, when driving or while doing the washing up. Visualise the chord sequence, sing the melody, imagine the root notes, imagine the sounds of the various chords and scales that you may use. Running through it in your memory is almost as good as doing it at the keyboard, and certainly it should show up any weak areas. This way practice time can be spent on other things.

I always have some place in a tune where I can't quite remember the ending of a phrase or how the chords go at the end of the bridge, or the juicy voicings that I found last time I played it. That is why I write stuff down and sometimes check it before I play a tune. I maybe know it well enough to play at a gig but still not perfectly. There is always something more to know about it. Recently I have been checking the history of the tunes and listening to many different versions and sometimes (when I can be bothered)checking out the lyrics as well. Even the biogs of the composers, the first recorded versions etc. All that adds a fresh insight to the tune.


I've been doing the same
here's a nice site for standards at least http://www.jazzstandards.com/

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#1847323 - 02/18/12 02:02 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: KlinkKlonk]
jjo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 639
Loc: Chicago
I'm pretty good a memorizing hard tunes. I put the time in, and find I enjoy playing them SO much more with music. You can really listen to what's happening in a way you just can't with music in front of you. Bud Powell, by Chick Corea, is a good example. Took a while to learn, but what a great tune. I have no intention of transposing that sucker, however.

My first venture was Just Friends. I know the tune really well, but played itin two other easy keys. Not too hard, and very valuable, in my view, becuase it just helps my ear hear the chord progression.

I think I will work on bass lines, too. My teacher has spent time working with me on bass lines, so I know how to do it. I just suck at it.

Jazzwee: One version of the Real Book as Windows in Bb. Chick plays in in B, and I prefer it in B as it adds a crispness. However, years ago we had a sax player (we separated from him later) who was too scared to play in in C#, which is what B requires. Someday I'll relearn it in B now that we're back to a piano trio. BTW, I love Marion McPartland's version if you can find it.

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#1847345 - 02/18/12 02:57 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Jjo,

Here's a masterclass on playing bass lines.


Maybe you already know all this, but towards the end of the last part, he lays a practice method that works well.

Not skipping steps would be really helpful. In other words, composing 4 or 5 basslines might seem like a waste of time, but it's not.

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#1847351 - 02/18/12 03:10 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jjo]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: jjo


Jazzwee: One version of the Real Book as Windows in Bb. Chick plays in in B, and I prefer it in B as it adds a crispness. However, years ago we had a sax player (we separated from him later) who was too scared to play in in C#, which is what B requires. Someday I'll relearn it in B now that we're back to a piano trio. BTW, I love Marion McPartland's version if you can find it.


The problem with the more complex tunes, jjo, is you start working out voicings and unique approaches. In Windows, even the melody has unique fingering issues. So there are just some tunes I don't want to move to another key. Stella, Body and Soul are others I wouldn't mess with myself.

Fortunately, key changes are common only in vocalist tunes and most are regular swing/bossa standards anyway.

I found these two singers (man and a woman) both of which sing most things in Real Book keys. Just love that. Especially since I can't say I work particularly hard to perfect vocalist tunes. These are the cases when the soloists are just background.

Last night we played Autumn Leaves in G-. I got lost a time or too (how is that possible?) because I forgot what key I was in on the 3-6-2-5 turnaround smile Em or Gm?

Had a great gig BTW. We're just getting better each time.
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#1847558 - 02/18/12 10:42 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Here's some recordings from our gig yesterday. Audience really enjoyed our playing so that really felt good. I did a lot blues. 2 Major blues and 2 minor blues so that was a stretch for me.

Black Orpheus
http://www.box.com/s/oglv3yhd706gsv5xlk5q

Tenor Madness
http://www.box.com/s/mlcibiae4thqkli6k8ne
_________________________
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#1847879 - 02/19/12 02:54 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Here's some recordings from our gig yesterday. Audience really enjoyed our playing so that really felt good. I did a lot blues. 2 Major blues and 2 minor blues so that was a stretch for me.

Black Orpheus
http://www.box.com/s/oglv3yhd706gsv5xlk5q

Tenor Madness
http://www.box.com/s/mlcibiae4thqkli6k8ne


I can hear that you've taken some things to heart, jw.
I think the Black Orpheus was more solid of the two because I heard repeated motifs most of the leaps were better.
A question for you: when you solo, does your RH ever play chords, or is it always single line? I think in these tempos you'd have some opportunity to open your voicings and play the solo with your 345 finger in your RH, at least for a half chorus, or so.

As for developing ideas, when I teach my students about how to play a line I'll ask them to incorporate small scale units in their solos, as in only have a range of about 3 to 5 notes to work around, but not actually going outside that range-- so no octaves, 6ths or whatever until a solid centre has been established, and then mainly work only within these small scale units. This is particularly useful in playing the blues because it focuses the sound towards singable units.
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#1847938 - 02/19/12 04:53 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: scepticalforumguy]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1213
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: scepticalforumguy

As for developing ideas, when I teach my students about how to play a line I'll ask them to incorporate small scale units in their solos, as in only have a range of about 3 to 5 notes to work around, but not actually going outside that range-- so no octaves, 6ths or whatever until a solid centre has been established, and then mainly work only within these small scale units. This is particularly useful in playing the blues because it focuses the sound towards singable units.


That is a good idea
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#1847956 - 02/19/12 05:21 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Scep, I believe I did play chords on the RH on one of my solos. Or at least did that in the last chorus. It's a nice variation. Sometimes it just comes usually from what I heard before.

Any advice to help me improve my blues is good. I don't work on it enough and on a gig it's very common.

On another angle, I was shedding Body and Soul and just making melodies. Here I really heard a lot of tension notes so I emphasized the 9ths a lot. I came up with a lot of melodies like that. It clarifies my intent and line shaping when I just noodle in slow motion. I think that some of my choices are driven by the original melody and I like that.

I think what's important for me is to remove certain actions that are driven by my fingers rather than my ears. A lot of motions are automatic and I'd like to do less of that. I think that's the cause of my jumping around a lot.
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#1848102 - 02/19/12 09:41 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Scott Coletta Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/11
Posts: 514
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

I think what's important for me is to remove certain actions that are driven by my fingers rather than my ears. A lot of motions are automatic and I'd like to do less of that. I think that's the cause of my jumping around a lot.


Yeah, this is a problem I've struggled with and still do sometimes. It's important to have patterns in your fingers that are automatic, but you don't want to be disengaged aurally and letting your hands do the work. For me the two things that have helped with this problem are...

1. Stop "playing" for a few days and just search for new ideas by ear, working each one out until it's smooth and "in the fingers".

2. Practicing transcriptions.

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#1848169 - 02/19/12 11:03 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Hey Scott, perfect. I have been doing both (#1 and #2).

Sometimes when I play "the changes" I can automatically pick the patterns for each chord and make sure I'm hitting chord tones but it's meaningless phrases by themselves. I suppose it's good for the many times when I have to play some solo on a tune I've never seen before.

But truly it develops some bad habits.

I don't think I noodle enough. I just noodled on Body and Soul all weekend. That was really a great experience. Just looked for melodies on really difficult chords. My eyes and ears were opened up a bit.

I have a lesson next week and I actually plan on just noodling in front of my teacher just to see if his thought process might reveal new approaches. I was transcribing some of teacher's stuff and I realized how deliberate the choices were and how I can only be deliberate at some small part of the time. The rest are easy 'shapes'.

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#1848178 - 02/19/12 11:19 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
....The rest are easy 'shapes.'



Another thing to do is to play the same tunes in different 'difficult' keys. You mentioned that you wouldn't put Stella or Body and Soul into other keys, but this is exactly what I choose to do, especially when I like the tune and can't seem to get new or good ideas after a while. So, although it may seem really hard at first, playing Stella in B or A isn't really a stretch, and it also really challenges you to use your ears and theoretical knowledge far more than your fingers--especially when your fingers are not used to playing in A or B. Then, once you've got some new ideas from the new key, you can transfer those back to the original key. Remember, both Stella and Body and Soul are almost exclusively diatonic (given the B section of B&S is a semitone up), so they aren't really that difficult to change keys.

The other thing that you could do is pick up your guitar again and see if you can play the lines that you want on both the piano and the guitar. I do this with a bunch of different instruments to see if I really know a tune or not. Oftentimes I find I don't really know a tune as well as I thought, but once I practice it on say the trombone, I find I know the tune better on the piano.
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#1848198 - 02/19/12 11:54 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Scep, that's true. That would really stretch to do those difficult tunes in a different key. But it's a major commitment, like transcribing. So not a task to take lightly.

In contrast, for functional harmonies, it isn't such a big deal to change to different keys. I've transposed ATTYA in multiple keys (including without leadsheets). I have to admit that I forgot now how to do that since it's been awhile.

If the goal is a deeper understanding of how to make melodies in a transposition, I think that's really good. I'm just contrasting that to the discussion earlier about transposing for the purpose of memorizing a form. That's a little different exercise.

Part of the difficulty in tunes like Body and Soul is already because it's in unusual keys like D, A, Gb, etc. Stuff that we don't see enough of.

Or tunes like Nefertiti and Naima where the connections from chord to chord aren't apparent without careful study. I remember when we did Nefertiti. Fun stuff. And mind bending to think of.
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#1848408 - 02/20/12 11:28 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Here's an anecdote. To show you that a good musician is just a good musician.

Yesterday I was at the mid-atlantic jazz festival.
Saw a quintet with a singer perform. Thanks to spotless organization, they started 30 minutes late. Nevertheless, everyone waited and they got a full room.

They had no time to do a sound check. Lesson #1. Always do a sound check. Horrible levels. Piano very loud, can't hear the singer at all.

For the pianist, it was an uphill battle. The pianist is a very busy full time local pianist. All the hotel had there was a Casio keyboard, Peavey Guitar Amp, no sustain pedal, and a chair that was way too low.
Not surprisingly, not very impressive.
And because she had another gig lined up, she had to leave half way through.

So for the last 3 tunes, no pianist. Well, except yes, the drummer "played" piano. They asked someone from the audience (that they knew) to come play drums, and the new "pianist" sat to play tunes he did not know. He was just given a sheet.

Well, the guy came up with a cool intro, singer jumped right in. Poor piano sound suddenly got better and he delivered a monster solo.

That's the kind of drummer you want in your band ;-)




Edited by knotty (02/20/12 11:28 AM)

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#1848848 - 02/21/12 03:25 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Sorry to inundate. This was from tonight...A little hard to hear the piano clearly. I haven't played Windows in awhile so I was a little unprepared. But it was fun because of the band interaction.

Windows
http://www.box.com/s/gh8eifc7hbe83hxotnkm

Blue in Green
http://www.box.com/s/ul60kdoxx4hrrras780l
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1848965 - 02/21/12 08:55 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
You might like this video JW:


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#1849022 - 02/21/12 10:45 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

...In contrast, for functional harmonies, it isn't such a big deal to change to different keys. I've transposed ATTYA in multiple keys (including without leadsheets). I have to admit that I forgot now how to do that since it's been awhile.


I just reread this... I'm not sure that either Stella or Body and Soul have non functional harmonies. Lots of II V movement, but nothing unusually hard. Which chords were you thinking would prove problematic?
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#1849032 - 02/21/12 11:05 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)

>>nothing unusually hard
1/2 step up, then 1/2 step down is unusually hard for me :-)

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#1849041 - 02/21/12 11:15 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: scepticalforumguy]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: scepticalforumguy
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

...In contrast, for functional harmonies, it isn't such a big deal to change to different keys. I've transposed ATTYA in multiple keys (including without leadsheets). I have to admit that I forgot now how to do that since it's been awhile.


I just reread this... I'm not sure that either Stella or Body and Soul have non functional harmonies. Lots of II V movement, but nothing unusually hard. Which chords were you thinking would prove problematic?


In Body and Soul, there's a lot of alterations in the chords. There's also reharms, Coltrane Changes (Giant steps progressions). A bridge with unusual progressions.

Now that I think it over more closely, the melodies to these difficult tunes guides the solo for me. And so the usual patterns that fingers gravitate to aren't usually appropriate.

You could say Very Early also is just a bunch of ii-V's. But there's an expected cycle to it, like 3-6-2-5-1 or some tritone sub thereof. But Very Early is melody driven too and pretty hard to analyze.

In contrast, the progressions in ATTYA are very consistent.
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#1849063 - 02/21/12 12:06 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Sorry to inundate. This was from tonight...A little hard to hear the piano clearly. I haven't played Windows in awhile so I was a little unprepared. But it was fun because of the band interaction.

Windows
http://www.box.com/s/gh8eifc7hbe83hxotnkm

Blue in Green
http://www.box.com/s/ul60kdoxx4hrrras780l


By the way Scep, on these tunes, I did a lot of just chord-like comping on the solo, something you were asking about earlier. Sometimes simplicity seemed better.

I'm supposed to play in a masterclass in 3 weeks and will be critiqued heavily I'm sure (in public). So since I know the tunes that will be done (Blue in Green is one of them), I'm going to plan out what to do in the solos ahead of time.

A masterclass is going to be more stressful than playing to an unsophisticated/uncritical audience I usually cater to. It will be like...like posting a tune in this thread!
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#1849214 - 02/21/12 04:43 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jjo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 639
Loc: Chicago
Per the suggestions here, I'm transposing tunes to a couple of easy keys, to start. I do it one of three ways, depending upon my mood: (1) comp with rootless chords, (2) play it solo style with shell voicings in the left hand, or (3) play a VERY simple bass line with just one note on the root (I can do that easily; it's walking bass lines that challenge me to no end). So far, it's actually fun, and there is no question but that it's good both for making the tunes really solid in memory and also for general ear training. Ii can't do this at tempo until I've been through the tune several times. At some point, I'll try some tougher keys. I'm fully comfortable playing lead sheets in any keys but transposing to more complex keys is tougher.

Last summer at a jazz camp I attend I spent an evening in a vocal jam session. Some of the singers would bring up lead sheets but ask for a different key. I had to let a faculty member take over. Being able to transpose, on sight, tunes I may or may not know seems a far off goal, but journeys start with etc. etc.

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#1849216 - 02/21/12 04:45 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Sorry to break in with a complete non-sequitur :

Do any of you fine Gentlemen have a Fender Rhodes sitting in the closet that you would like to turn into $$$ ? Post or PM. If you include a telephone number, I’ll call to discuss.

Thanks,
Ed
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In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

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#1849300 - 02/21/12 06:57 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
I had an interesting lesson today.

We discussed a lot of what we had talked about extensively here, including vocabulary. And he (AP) advised me to "stay the course". Clearly my direction is to do the unexpected and he understands how it will sound different. He basically said I was seeing music at a different level now and it will be my voice.

My note choices? He said they were good choices but I just have to be more deliberate about it. He gave me some really good ways to develop my own vocabulary and I probably have years of information just from this one lesson.

I've cut down on lessons lately and spending more time with introspective problem solving of what I need to work on. The lesson today was like one of these 'Tie a Ribbon' sessions to just frame everything I've learned since the beginning.

It was really enjoyable.
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