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#1890106 - 05/02/12 06:46 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted By: jazzwee



Comments welcome (always is).

Sugar
http://www.box.com/s/bad1ba7ae8bf58dad04e


Some nice lines in there JW! What I really hated was the vibes though. They sounded really out of place to me, and I'd rather hear you do your own comping, especially when most of your solo lines are in the same register as the vibes. The only way to avoid that is to play really high, or really low, and doesn't give you much room to be expressive IMHO.

And, if you are going to record again with the Steinway (hint, hint), let's hear some chordal melody stuff. Are you working on that yet? If so, this is the instrument and time to show it. I always find DP too 'something' but not quite right to play rich chords on. But an acoustic grand, I can't NOT play cool voicing stuff.
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Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#1890121 - 05/02/12 07:17 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
I love doing chordal stuff scep.

But working on balancing out the recording with the PA volume of the backing track. This was my first try to copy your acoustic recordings. I did a little bit today and the balance isn't right. So need more time for trial and error.

I've been practicing doing moveable voicings inside a mode. Something Bill Cunliffe gave me to do. And I'm using it more.

Anyway, I'm going to do more of this in the next few days. I find that I have to reacquaint myself with the acoustic as far as balance of the voices is concerned. I just noticed how different I do it from a DP (initially too harsh).

You were the inspiration for this scep! (your acoustic recordings). Post more of that!
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Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
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#1891393 - 05/04/12 09:39 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
I love doing chordal stuff scep.

But working on balancing out the recording with the PA volume of the backing track. This was my first try to copy your acoustic recordings.



But in the meantime post some solo stuff of the Steinway. Do you have a boom? If so put the H4 above the strings facing the soundboard about 8 to 12 inches above the strings and you'll get a pretty decent recording. I find if I have the mic too far in the room it picks up too many bad reflections, and not enough of the good piano qualities.

I'd think that you could even have the mic in the same place with the BAIB recordings too, given that we'd want to hear the piano forward in the mix anyways.
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#1891406 - 05/04/12 10:12 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
So far, my trials of that aren't too good. If I move the Zoom out, then the piano sounds more muddled. But above the strings, it's just way louder than the BIAB. Not authentic trio sounding.

From where I'm sitting though, the BIAB is really loud already. So I almost have to monitor the piano so I get a balanced mix. I'm going to try that next. Where my piano is positioned, there is nothing for the sound to bounce back to the player.

The funny thing is that the Sugar recording is not too bad balance wise. I just put the Zoom flat on the music desk (desk down). So it's getting a mix that I'm hearing. It's not so close to the strings.

It's a fun trial and error though but I only get a few minutes before the kids start to make noise so I can do only a little bit of it a day.
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#1891776 - 05/05/12 03:23 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Here's a fresh recording try. Mic was on a boom in front of piano (player side). This recording is untouched so the reverb is natural on the piano. When this distant, the piano is less bright sounding and has less clarity. I thought it sat in the mix better. But I guess that's the tradeoff.

My Favorite Things Steinway Test
https://www.box.com/s/002e462a16b4de2a07b6

(I know the piano needs tuning -- tuner is coming next week)
_________________________
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#1891853 - 05/05/12 06:11 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Here's a fresh recording try. Mic was on a boom in front of piano (player side). This recording is untouched so the reverb is natural on the piano. When this distant, the piano is less bright sounding and has less clarity. I thought it sat in the mix better. But I guess that's the tradeoff.

My Favorite Things Steinway Test
https://www.box.com/s/002e462a16b4de2a07b6

(I know the piano needs tuning -- tuner is coming next week)


That's a very cool intro, JW. Some nice lines developing too. I'm wondering though, in the form you seem to not be playing the Emaj section, but instead substituting a sus or minor chord. Do you have a real book that suggests playing minor/modal over the Emaj section?
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#1891926 - 05/05/12 08:44 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: scepticalforumguy]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: scepticalforumguy
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Here's a fresh recording try. Mic was on a boom in front of piano (player side). This recording is untouched so the reverb is natural on the piano. When this distant, the piano is less bright sounding and has less clarity. I thought it sat in the mix better. But I guess that's the tradeoff.

My Favorite Things Steinway Test
https://www.box.com/s/002e462a16b4de2a07b6

(I know the piano needs tuning -- tuner is coming next week)


That's a very cool intro, JW. Some nice lines developing too. I'm wondering though, in the form you seem to not be playing the Emaj section, but instead substituting a sus or minor chord. Do you have a real book that suggests playing minor/modal over the Emaj section?


Scep, our band does a variance on the form and we skip the B section (Emaj7 section). Just keeps it simple with singers. BTW - I'm playing it here in Cm because the last singer I did this with was in Cm. So anyway, it is not the original form I'm doing.

This tune was very difficult for me. It took me a long time to get a handle on it. I'm still getting used to it. It doesn't seem that hard just looking at the changes but in actual playing, I notice our entire band has difficulty (i.e. all the players).

You didn't comment on the recording itself though. Any suggestions? Closer to the piano? Further away? Change in mix?
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#1892208 - 05/06/12 12:09 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

Scep, our band does a variance on the form and we skip the B section (Emaj7 section). Just keeps it simple with singers. BTW - I'm playing it here in Cm because the last singer I did this with was in Cm. So anyway, it is not the original form I'm doing.

I'd suggest putting that maj section back in, otherwise the piece loses some significant color change that makes the tune My Favorite Things. Now it is just Some of My Favorite Things. (haha)
But in all seriousness, the tune is hard enough to memorize as it is, and to eliminate the Maj section just makes it that much harder imho.
Originally Posted By: jw

You didn't comment on the recording itself though. Any suggestions? Closer to the piano? Further away? Change in mix?

The mix is fine except for the drums. They sound like they're in a can for some reason. I've not seen biab, but can you change the eq/volume of the different instruments?
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Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#1892224 - 05/06/12 12:36 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Scep - you accuse me of having only SOME of my favorite things? What about Coltrane? He just vamped! LOL.

In truth, I don't know how the melody goes with all these changes so I only heard a singer do it without the B and I just followed that. Coltrane was no help in figuring it out...

I guess I have to go all the way to Julie Andrews to figure it out. Darn, I already did it my way...In a zillion keys. I think I've played this in at least 4 keys and it's difficult to keep the form as it is.

Sounds like you are very familiar with the tune. Usually I considered this a vocals tune and non of the instrumentalists soloed much on it. Once you lose the form on this you are f...d. smile (I have many live recordings of this to prove it).

BIAB volume. I just used the default volume. I've got to figure out how to adjust that. I'm sure it can be done but the default should already be ok I figured.
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Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1892235 - 05/06/12 12:55 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2991
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
what's reverbnation?

Any of you on it?

Does it get gigs or what else is it for?

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#1892269 - 05/06/12 01:53 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Scep - you accuse me of having only SOME of my favorite things? What about Coltrane? He just vamped! LOL.

Coltrane had a pedal section except when he changed for the dominant function. BUT he still played maj over the E in the second section ( I think...I'll have to listen again) I also have a theory that Coltrane actually used this tune as a stepping point to the coda for Naima. It sounds remarkably like the Gmaj Cmaj stuff of My Favorite Things, especially when you hear how the voice leading works in both tunes.
Originally Posted By: jw

Sounds like you are very familiar with the tune. Usually I considered this a vocals tune and non of the instrumentalists soloed much on it. Once you lose the form on this you are f...d. smile (I have many live recordings of this to prove it).

I'm somewhat familiar with the tune, but I've got my share of recordings where I get lost too. It's ok though, since my bass player is pretty much lost from about bar 10 or so, so he has no idea where I am at the best of times.


Edited by scepticalforumguy (05/06/12 02:40 PM)
Edit Reason: pedal section revised
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#1892318 - 05/06/12 03:05 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: scepticalforumguy]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
er...


Edited by scepticalforumguy (05/06/12 03:08 PM)
Edit Reason: I was so wrong...
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#1892425 - 05/06/12 06:09 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: knotty]
Scott Coletta Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/11
Posts: 514
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: knotty
what's reverbnation?

Any of you on it?

Does it get gigs or what else is it for?




I guess it's a kind of "social networking" site for musicians, bands and venues. I've been on it for a couple of months but so far I've seen no benefit. But I'm not very good at stuff like that. smile

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#1892558 - 05/06/12 09:30 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Scep, I recall Coltrane did the B section but not the C section. And then vamped on the D section. So not a good example unfortunately (in fact I confused my singer by saying listen to Coltrane).
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1892624 - 05/07/12 12:14 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Scep, I recall Coltrane did the B section but not the C section. And then vamped on the D section. So not a good example unfortunately (in fact I confused my singer by saying listen to Coltrane).


In any case both he and McCoy made a point of playing maj for an entire section to give the solos some form other than playing in Em.

I also like the Emaj section because it is the only 8 bars, at least in the head, that sound completely different than the rest of the tune, and can give someone (soloists, etc) a chance to regain their bearings in an otherwise large form.
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#1892628 - 05/07/12 12:21 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Well it helps when I look at the lyrics. It looks like it's no big deal to have that B section. It's the same melody (like A). I didn't realize that as the E major chord confused me.

Quote:

MARIA:
Raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens
Bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens
Brown paper packages tied up with strings
These are a few of my favorite things

Cream colored ponies and crisp apple strudels
Door bells and sleigh bells and schnitzel with noodles
Wild geese that fly with the moon on their wings
These are a few of my favorite things

Section I did not Play - but it really is just the same melody as above
Girls in white dresses with blue satin sashes
Snowflakes that stay on my nose and eyelashes
Silver white winters that melt into Springs
These are a few of my favorite things

Coltrane Skipped this but of course very important to singers
When the dog bites
When the bee stings
When I'm feeling sad
I simply remember my favorite things
And then I don't feel so bad.

D Vamp section here


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Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1892629 - 05/07/12 12:25 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Brief music interruption. Here's Herbie/Wayne Shorter/Tony Williams/Ron Carter/Wallace Roney in an exciting version of So What. Great stuff. Just amazed watching Herbie's comping alone.



Herbie was featured last week on Sirius RealJazz. A whole weekend of nothing BUT Herbie. Then the Jazzday thing was more Herbie.
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#1893793 - 05/08/12 09:38 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Mike A Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 520
Loc: So.Cal.USA
Quote:
Coltrane Skipped this but of course very important to singers
When the dog bites
When the bee stings
When I'm feeling sad
I simply remember my favorite things
And then I don't feel so bad.


12:33
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-MPck1zhKpQ#t=753s

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#1893839 - 05/08/12 11:25 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: Mike A]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: Mike A
Quote:
Coltrane Skipped this but of course very important to singers
When the dog bites
When the bee stings
When I'm feeling sad
I simply remember my favorite things
And then I don't feel so bad.


12:33
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-MPck1zhKpQ#t=753s


So, I see, after 5000 choruses he plays it once in the end at 12+ minutes in and this is supposed to tell me that it matches the original Sound of Music? Sorry for my mistake. I will tell the singer to copy this.
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#1894123 - 05/09/12 12:05 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Mike A Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 520
Loc: So.Cal.USA
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
this is supposed to tell me that it matches the original Sound of Music?

Huh?

It tells you that this is how Coltrane ended the tune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvT0YI3Ogag
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UbszI-ju5w

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#1894177 - 05/09/12 01:24 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Mike, I never know if you're here to help or deride and say I made a mistake. The point is that Coltrane DOES NOT follow this form. Since he makes it DC al Fine then it is different. Even worse, he adds a vamp at the end of each section. So if anyone is looking at these changes and associating it with what Coltrate is playing, there is guesswork involved and not a good thing with a band that plays directly from the Real Book.

And Coltrane is even noted at the bottom. Maybe he played it like this in that Album. But definitely not in the My Favorite Things Album as you already noted.

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#1894189 - 05/09/12 01:43 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Mike A Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 520
Loc: So.Cal.USA
He played that section to end the tune on the Live at Birdland album also (19:10).

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#1894193 - 05/09/12 01:47 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Interesting. No wonder this tune has always confused me. But then again, accuracy in Real Books is never guaranteed.

However, the RealBook seems accurate enough for a vocals version and should not have referenced Coltrane at all (which just served to confuse).

Anyway, thanks for the heads up.
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#1894221 - 05/09/12 02:46 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
However, the RealBook seems accurate enough for a vocals version and should not have referenced Coltrane at all (which just served to confuse).


This is all the reference one needs:
smile
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I never play anything the same way once.

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#1894374 - 05/09/12 07:50 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1190
Loc: uk south
It is hard to believe that Trane heard julie andrews and then decided that it would make a great tune to play.
He was really into Chim chim cheree as well ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te_Nv3lMUnA

...he turned such tunes into masterpieces like this ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_c0elc0dM8
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#1894534 - 05/10/12 01:42 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
That's pretty cool beeboss! I've never heard him do Chim Chim Cheree before.
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#1894556 - 05/10/12 03:09 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
According to studio myth (from the book A Love Supreme): "Some times we have to live with a tune for quite a while, and other times we just fall into it. a fella said "why don't you try this tune?" so I bought the song sheet and took it to rehearsal, and just like that, we fell right into it . . . we had the shape of it at the rehearsal, but it took us a little while to grow and get expanded and recognize the different parts and know just how we were going to play it, but it was a very short time."

"I try to pick a . . . song that sounds good and a song that might be familiar . . . and then I try to have parts in the song where we can play solo . . .in a modal perspective, more or less, you know? So therefore we end up playing a lot of vamps within a tune."

According to the book, the record company issued several different versions, where they had edited out parts and spliced it together. MFT was a "hit" so they got to sell 45 rpm singles.
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I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
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#1894595 - 05/10/12 05:31 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1190
Loc: uk south
That is interesting Chris.
In the case of chim chim I think Duke recorded a 'mary poppins album' in 1964 and then Trane started playing it, but I can't find any other jazz versions of 'my favoritite things' before Trane's version. He may have been the first to give 'greensleeves' the jazz treatment as well.

It is hard to imagine MFT being a hit. Different times I guess.
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#1894707 - 05/10/12 11:07 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Scott Coletta Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/11
Posts: 514
Loc: Chicago
Have you all heard Mehldau's take on My Favorite Things from Marciac? He changes the form too. It's really nice...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFq8CA4dud4

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#1894777 - 05/10/12 01:12 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jjo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 624
Loc: Chicago
Mehldau is amazing. Not much more I can say.

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